PBF81

He finally put together a very respectable OL as of last season, not prior to that. And, we had 100% perfect health, aka zero injuries, in our starting 5 OL-men. How often is that going to occur. I like McGovern over Morse, or at least it's a wash in my book, so we'll see. The entire D has hurt the team in the playoffs, they've almost never stepped up and when they have it's against Mac Jones or Lamar Jackson, the playoff chokemaster.

It's important to distinguish between the Draft & Free Agency. Also perhaps by unit: OL, RB, WR, TE, DL, LB, DBs He's obviously done better on D also.

That goes back to the context of our discussion. The bigger concern is what Shakir's injury is.

Right, like himself. Let's just call it a difference of opinion. There are plenty of people taking both views of this. It's not as if I'm the only one. Anything else today?

Right! We've only been awaiting the truth about "13 Seconds" for nearly three seasons now. Let us all know when the video of the real, not the nonsense video, posts.

Could have something to do with his achilles, no? Wasn't that acting up recently? Worst case is that he can't play, physically that is.

You've taken this waaaay outside the context of my post & points. Not much I can do about that. OK, we're still way out of context here, but he went to 4 conference championships in his first six seasons, 1 Super Bowl, all with an incredibly average QB like McNabb. In short, he came a lot closer more often than anyone else with comparable talent at QB. We're never going to win a Super Bowl with McDefense at the helm. This season is going to be incredibly revealing. It will be interesting to see how many are ready to throw the towel in on him by season's end. He's held us up come playoffs. He never outcoaches anyone in the playoffs. He's done almost nothing to play better in the playoffs than we play during the season. Getting back to the point, if Allen doesn't shine in the playoffs and carry McDefense's water, we have zero shot at winning. Plain and simple. McDefense never gets anyone to step up, Allen takes it upon himself, or as you imply, it doesn't happen and we have zero chance. There's not one playoff game that we were in and won that Allen played a poor game, not one. Of the ones we've one, besides Allen and Davis, no one has stepped up consistently. Our defense is fine overall. On D the total is greater than the sum of the parts, ... except in the playoffs where the total is less than the sum of the parts. That's another clue. This will be the season that more people catch on.

The nonsense about Newton I don't get. He posted one (1) above-average passing season in a season where the Panthers had one of if not the easiest schedule in the modern history of the game. The rest of his time in the NFL his aggregate numbers were an incredibly pedestrian 159 TDs/ 113 INTs (1.4-to-1), 1.2 TDs/game, about a 60% compl. %, an 83.4 Rating, and wasn't particularly great in the playoffs where he had plenty of help from the rest of his team, unlike Allen.

Philly went on their losing skid at the end of the season because both the O and the D collapsed. They allowed over 30 ppg in their 1-5 skid. They scored a mere 20.5 in their 1-5 skid. No team is going to win many games playing like that. When it's an entire team collapse, apart from perhaps a player or two, it's typically on the coach. Could be both. Hurts isn't a good playoff QB. He's only somewhat better than Lamar Jackson in the playoffs. He hasn't been singularly responsible for one playoff win, unlike Allen for example.

Well, you implicitly touched on a lot of things, that all support the point, but you seem to have missed the point. I discount 2019 and always have for reasons of fairness to Allen. Mahomes has had Reid, an offensive mastermind. Allen has never had anyone close. Point 2: Sure, 2021 was a draw. But Allen had Diggs, an average OL at best, no significant #2 WR after Diggs who did nothing. Mahomes had Hill and Kelce and a vastly superior OL. Point 3: Swap out Allen for any of our drought era QBs. Do you think we would have even made the playoffs much less lost every playoff game we did make if we happened to accidentally make one like we did in 2017. I don't see us even posting a winning season. Point 4: In the playoffs, name one other player on the team, on either side, that has stepped up with even the hint of consistency besides Allen or Davis. How about coaching, what did McD do in the playoffs that won us a game besides capitalize off of Jackson who chokes nearly as bad as Bledsoe did in the playoffs. And for the sake of comparison, put Allen on KC and Mahomes with McD here. Do you really think that it would have been any different for us?

Some perspective is necessary. Without Allen on our team, this team would have rivaled the worst of the drought era. He's had to overcome some of the worst OL play until this past season, not having any great RBs behind him, only situational types, never a McCoy, Thomas, Jackson, etc. His WRs with the exception of the now hated Diggs have been below average otherwise. He's had to overcome poor coaching at times. Despite all that he goes into a zone when it matters the most, the playoffs, unlike our fearless leader, and carries the team as far as it can go without much support in the playoffs. Imagine if some of those other pieces were consistently in place!

It'll be interesting to see how this thread agrees.

He's also have to finish the last third of the season a little stronger than 3.6 ypc, no rushing TDs, apart from a one game outlier that is, and how does a RB that never carries in 3rd downs even make that list. He petered out as the season wore on, can't score at the goal line, and isn't used on 3rd downs. There only so much utility for a RB like that. We got what can be gotten out of him. They didn't draft Davis on the 4th because Cook is all that. Cook is what they said he was when he was drafted, namely a good situational ball carrier that isn't suited to full-time carries, but one that has good utility in the passing game.

Well, he's sired what, 11 kids with 10 different women or spending like that. That's Hall of Fame material.

Be careful what you wish for. 😁

We haven't been discussing whether it's to much money or not, we've been talking the WRs on the roster relative to one another. I also do not agree with just about anything we do re: or offensive MO/strategy, you should know that, I'm among our biggest critics. But to think that we sign a bunch of WRs that have achieved nothing in this league, then sign Samuel for $23 M over three years with the thought of possibly cutting him, ... I honestly don't know what to say about anyone that would think that. IMO or strategy for stocking WRs on Allen's watch has been nearly criminal. While it may not be saying much, and whether or not I like it (I don't), Samuel's currently the second best WR on this team with a wide gap between him and #3.

Well, it'll certainly be interesting if he gets that step back in Houston this season. LOL

No, because of a $13M dead cap, or thereabouts, he's a lock. You don't seriously think that they would cut him, do you? We haven't signed a single WR with a significant contract. MVS signed a $2.2M contract, he's the highest paid WR besides Samuel. Half of that was SB. Hollins has a slightly bigger contract but costs less against the cap to cut. Hollins has been on 4 different teams in six seasons. He's averaged 18 YPG and not even 2 TDs/season. There's zero chance that Samuel gets cut.

There's some lack of perspective on this discussion. It's not so much the price, there are several reasonably priced WRs in the league, for a few years at least. The rookies that come in and perform aren't high-priced, for several years. Look at what Minny got from Jefferson. Chase, waffle, St. Brown, Nacua, Place, Wilson as examples. But if you don't draft them. And now we go for a WR like Coleman with limitations. Sometimes you create your own problems. These are failures and issues of the front office. Aka, it's not simply the price in terms of dollars. We could have drafted Jefferson instead of trading for Diggs and immediate big money. Instead, we accepted known risks that played out. There should be little surprise. A lot is going to come out in the wash this season. Nonsense. Dorsey didn't have, as one example, Diggs regularly running crossing routes at line of scrimmage. Hell be fine in Houston. His resurgence will be a "miracle." I mean how does one otherwise regain the "step that he lost "

Well, we disagree here. That was also the context of the ongoing discussion. Insofar as free agents go, most people view Samuel as the most significant pickup, and certainly by contract. Your not going to find too many people that don't think that he's a lock to make the roster and start. He's also the only one with a significant deal capb and by far the most playing experience. Remember, he has Brady Carolina ties, so he's not going anywhere. If I understand you correctly, your vision is that none of the WRs stand out but that several will log in the (just say) 700-900 yards range with none distinguishing himself. Could be, again, the one thing that I would bet on for sure is, is that the whole, offensively speaking, is less than the sum of the parts.

Well, 8 seasons is more than enough time to "adjust." If they don't have it by the end of this season ...

Well, and LOL, what's he supposed to say. Let's be honest, this is hardly the team's braintrust that's been the most forthright and honest with fans and media over the years. But I hear ya, the circumstances are going to force their hand either way. My issue with it is that it doesn't play to Allen's core strength(s).

Roger I don't remember, was there that much support for Rosen over Allen? As to Coleman, maybe I'm off, but the majority angle here anyway appears to be positive? No? Exactly! But as to the scouting departments, consider how many times they're off. So no, I don't necessarily trust them anymore than I trust anyone else. My track record, the public one, is better than theirs on the top picks anyway. It's largely because I don't care if I'm wrong on a few, I call it as I see it. I'm not trying to keep a job doing that and therefore hiding behind the prevailing analyses. Here's the thing, when reviewing players, I far too often see the end results of assessments/analyses highlighting only the highlights, which again, are often against competition that's not typically found in the NFL, or situations that aren't. Point being, it's our professional "expert" scouting staff(s) that produced the likes of players in rounds 1 & 2 like Rousseau, Basham, Ford, Zay Jones, Lawson, Darby, Ragland, Watkins, Kouandjio, Spiller, Troupe, Hardy, and others. I offered my diametric dissension on a bunch of those, at least insofar as being drafted in rounds 1 or 2 went, and particularly players like Watkins and Jones (and now Coleman by similar standards), and Hardy from years prior. Sure I've been off, but not as much as the professionals. So I'm quite comfortable with my methodologies and I'd be happy to put 'em up against anyone in the business, at least for the handful of picks that I do look at. I make my mistakes, just not as frequently. I was big on Edmunds, but so were they, obviously. But you're right, none of it matters, and I didn't say the above as a LAM, just to say that I trust my own anaylses more than I trust those of others, again, for the picks that I actually spend time on. In fairness, media guys don't have that kind of time to analyze a couple hundred players like that, but entire scouting departments should have all the time in the world, particularly for the players that they're heavily interested in. So no excuses at all there. And they travel to games too.

Well, I don't claim to know, I'm on the incredibly curious side of the tracks.

LOL