PBF81

No, it didn't, but there was also a reason for it. Namely their tenacious D. We were outcoached in both games despite splitting. We can probably afford another split, but if we drop both to them that'd be problematic for the seeding. As it is, they play Houston and Cleveland while we have to play Jax and Cincy. the difference between Tamps (us) and Atlanta (Jets) is negligible.

You know that I have high hopes for our offense. In his first game though? Hope so, but we'll see. 6 days ...

And two very good RBs and a rookie WR that finished 15th in the league for receiving yards. Tell that to the person that's been arguing contrarily with me. 🙂 My point is that they played better with worse talent than we had, and against our #2 ranked D. We could have had better talent, but coaching was clearly an issue. Your point is noted, but consider, with White and Wilson at QB, a rookie WR and WRs no better than ours after him, at best, no RB worthy of note, they beat us and held us to 20 in the other game with their defense holding our O to our worst two games on the season. We'll see what McD has up his sleeve on Monday. But this Jets team is on the opposite end of the spectrum from what we're played last season. White/Wilson to Rodgers Crap to Cook/Hall Wilson as a rookie and crap to 2nd-year Wilson, and Lazard from GB in support. That's a bump. Kincaid's been strong and impressive. I'm not necessarily thinking he makes a huge impact on Monday, but Torrence definitely looks the part and is impressive, he'll get thrown into the fire vs. the Jets but he looked like he can handle it. Also, McGovern on the other side seems to be huge. NPI Is McGovern healthy? IDK, we'll see. This game should reveal much re the forthcoming season.

And BTW, I just looked, but Cook's best game last season, both in rushing yards and YPC was against us. We struggle against good RBs generally speaking, heck, we struggle against mediocre RBs at times, this combination of Cook/Hall could be problematic, particularly given our MLB situation. We didn't play a lot of top rushing teams or RBs last season. Other than for Cook, of the ones we did, they weren't on balanced offenses. My biggest intrigue re: this game is going to be our coaching.

Yes, thanks, now I remember. Either way, it doesn't change what he and I were talking about. He's just throwing up mud at this point. Anyone not concerned that the Jets can beat us is not being wise. They were in fact our two worst games last season for our offense. Or defense has not improved either, but their offense has. Our offense has improved, but IMO the issue wasn't talent on our offense, it was coaching. Our coaching likely hasn't changed. That is all. If people like him want to think that it's a forgone conclusion that we win on Monday, great, no skin off my teeth. We shall see. I'm cautiously optimistic but wouldn't be surprised if the Jets held us to 20 or fewer again and scored more than that with Rodgers and Cook now on the team, and Hall who didn't play either game against us, and Wilson in his second season after an exceptional rookie year with siht QBs.

To be contrasted with the Pestering Pooh-bahs of Positivity?

LOL And you know that I didn't watch the games, or the game summary not long ago tonight, how? Funny, because your recollection of a dropped pass to Gabe Davis is nowhere to be found in two different box scores. Perhaps seeing an optometrist before your viewing this season would be a great idea if you'd like to actually see what you're commenting on. Just a suggestion though.

Coaching issue, no? Got it, it was all Gabe's fault. Things are starting to make sense in the discussion here. I didn't seen a pass in the PBP to Davis in the 1st Quarter. He didn't have catches for 15 in the 2nd and 18 in the 4th though? Box Score says he did. Otherwise, Allen's INT to Gardrner on a pass to Knox, setting up a TD drive from our own 19 didn't have as much to do with it then in a 3-point loss? Oh, I see, so despite Diggs, Knox, Hines, Davis, McKenzie and Cook all still in the game, the Jets were a better roster than we were at the time. Sure, got it. And of course that explains 232 total yards, 130 passing yards, and a mere 14 1st-Downs, all season worsts then, right? And that in Buffalo. Yeah, OK. You're right, should be a blowout for us this year. Absolutely no reason for cautious optimism. LOL

Different Jets team though big time. For starters, they split with us last season outperforming us offensively in both games. Otherwise, in 2017 the Jets were 5-11 and led by Josh McCown and coached by Bowles. In 2019 and 2020 they were 7-9 and 2-14 and led by Darnold and coached by Gase. Should be a great game. Hopefully we come out on top. It would be foolish to not be concerned however.

LOL Really? What are we, 12 years old now. Do our stats from last season really bother you that much that you go tantrum here? All I did was say that they shouldn't be taken lightly. Otherwise, you still haven't given a reason why we lost one game last season and played poorly in both. I gave you mine. I'm still all ears. I have no idea whether we'll win. I'm pretty sure we'll be outcoached given the evidence for that.

LOL, you serious? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that response. But I'll give you a little push towards comprehension in that regard. With Mike White and Zach Wilson, the Jets out performed us and our 2nd-ranked defense in the relevant statistical categories mentioned above, while we, with Josh Allen, a notably superior QB, did less against their 4th ranked defense, and they were our two worst games of the season. That help? I have absolutely no idea how you somehow got from what I posted that I think that White or Wilson are even future starters in the NFL much less top-10, much less anywhere even approaching Allen. But considering that, perhaps you can explain why with Allen then, we performed so much more poorly against a lower ranked D and posted our two worst games of the season? I'd say coaching, but that's not a favored topic here. What do you think was the reason? Biorythyms? Humidity? What?

Well, chalk it up to coaching then, because against our 2nd-ranked D their offense with Zach Wilson and Mike White in two games put up more yards (619 to 549), more passing yards (369 to 313), averaged over 7 minutes better in time-of-possession, logged more 1st-Downs (40 to 33), and had a better 3rd-down-conversion rate. They averaged 16 ppg with White and Wilson to our 18.5 with Allen. Now they have essentially the same D, presumably our number, and Rodgers and Cook. They shouldn't be taken lightly, at last not by us. They were our two worst games last year.

No. The lack of a bona fide MLB is problematic to be sure. But I'm not convinced that Poyer's knee injury, which affected his play last season, is fully healed and will not recur w/o surgery. Hyde turns 33 this season and given his injury, and what it is, back, I strongly doubt that he'll be at 100% given that and his age, and I wouldn't be a stale donut that he makes it through 16 games. He's well into his back-9 otherwise. Despite having signed Oliver to a good sized contract, that in and of itself doesn't make him better. We still have no impact pass-rushers without Miller. Miller, at 34, only a fool would think that he A, comes back 100% from his injury, and by the time he is "100%," age will likely have gotten the better of him. Sorry, but it was simply a high-risk high-reward acquisition that didn't play out to our favor. Our defense was much worse with him at his 100% self on the field, and that was against teams led by QBs such as Mike White, Mac Jones (twice), and Justin Fields, none of whom are any good. "Leadership" only accomplishes so much in terms of physicality, so despite Miller's "leadership" that won't help all that much on the field. Who knows with White, and while he appears to be much closer to 100%, we don't know. What we do know is that we don't have any other above-average CBs otherwise, pending of course, and given the QBs and offenses we play, that's going to be problematic. Also, Beane's drafts filled no glaring holes on D. Speaking of the QBs and offenses we play, I'm far from sold, with good reason, on the idea that McD is a great DC despite popularized narratives to the contrary. There's no track record of him being anything but an average DC. He now has all but his entire Carolina staff under him here, and apart from the notion that it's preposterous to consider for even a moment that those are the best coaches for the jobs, they're also part of a very average Defensive performance and ranking history in Carolina, and largely subject to the ease of the schedule. I've stated this numerous times in a bunch of threads, so not sure why you said what you said. Cheap isn't the issue. Unless it was the plan and part of this obscure and completely undefined "Process," without any question it clearly illustrates any lack of planning or foresight in the matter. Also, as to Kirksey, it seems that he's played ILB more than MLB, but even the last two seasons at MLB in Houston, their D ranked near the bottom, 27th in scoring both seasons and 30th and 31st in yardage. Since he played a key role in that it hardly inspires confidence. And what, waiting to see which MLB would be released was the plan and "Process"? Again, if true, entirely uninspiring. And OK, for the sake of argument, let's say that Bernard, a reach in the 3rd according to just about every draft analysis, was in fact "the plan." Then it failed, so at least let's be honest about it. And if they really drafted Williams with the original intent to play MLB, I'm simply not sure what to say. Not one draft analyst had him effectively playing MLB in the NFL. Klein, I got into many an argument in suggesting he'd be ripe for being cut. Clearly the staff didn't think he was the option either. Again, cheap isn't the issue, poor planning is, and to whatever extent they did "plan" for that, they failed. We agree on that we don't know. But it's also a fool's proposition to wager that either the undrafted undistinguished otherwise Dodson or the 3rd-round reach undersized secondary school LB will hold up the slot. And no, we don't know that Dean will be an adequate replacement, but again, my point is that as a 1st/2nd-round prospect slipped to the 3rd round, he's a whole lot better bet on working out that Dodson, Bernard, Williams entirely out of position, or Kirksey who in 9 seasons and now at the age of 31 has done absolutely nothing to distinguish himself. Hope that helps the misunderstanding.

Roger! But still, even if he doesn't log that sack, a FG is not guaranteed. But again, and either way, let's not lose weight of the overall point, it has been offense, not defense, clearly, that has paved the way for the success of the Chiefs. As a further case in point, consider the Super Bowl. The chiefs allowed 417 Yards, 38 points, three 75-Yard TD drives, 11-18 on 3rd-Down Convs, 2-2 on 4th-Down Convs, 36 min time-of-possession. Chris Jones and their Defense were as bad as our playoff defense in that game, maybe worse and entirely ineffective.

For starters, who is "constantly negative?" You sure that isn't in your head living rent free? I think that you're extrapolating some negative vibes on certain things and assuming that anyone that agrees with the 'complaint du jour' always posts negative. I see zero evidence for that. Again, which fan that posts here regularly is going to be disappointed, as you stated with fans wanting us to lose, should we win a Championship? Sounds like a you problem. Noticed anyone sulking at games when we make a great big play have ya? Seen people getting upset in the game-day threads when we score a TD or make a big play? It seems like a tantrum to me to categorically label anyone that posts here, who are all obviously fans, as "constantly posting negatively" when even the most critical fans that post here are positive and optimistic about certain things. As if we have no weaknesses or issues. Again, can you explain to me why complaining and griping about Davis is so approved here, (and what's your position on that out of curiosity?), when as I stated, he's posted better numbers than a good number of #1 WRs and is well above-average among #2s WRs? Is that positive? I'll tell you what gets old, is having threads constantly calling out our own fanbase for simply harboring criticisms of team play. And why people seem to take that so personally seems to be a them problem. And honestly, whatever happened to simply letting things that you don't disagree with roll off your sleeve. That's what I do. Who cares. I don't give it a second thought and sometimes I laugh it off.

Yeah, there's a reason for that. You'll see it too once the season begins.

Since you ask and put the onus for comment on me ... I didn't see any questions. What, Tantrum? That one? Otherwise I'll address that last post and your OP. To start, above you cite the author of the piece. But here's your original post parsed. You're clearly not referring to the author of the piece. You are calling out our fan base, not the author. Or, not for planning for the departure of Edmunds. Isn't that a valid criticism? I think so. Again, tantrum. Boo hoo. Allen does the job of 80% of the offense and Beane's a genius. But heaven forbid anyone criticizes the shoddy OL we've had for six seasons runnning now, never above average. Or all of the DL-men we've drafted without getting a single impact-player much less a ringer. I think that's a very valid criticism too. And Brandon Shell's hardly Will Wolford. Either way, going back to the prior comment, our OL has been below average now on the entirety of McBeane's watch. It's hardly as if Beane hasn't had other opportunities to rectify the situation. We haven't had a single above-average RT here the entire time. On top of that, this guy you imply was the answer otherwise, was signed to a 1-year deal for just over a million. Clearly he isn't the top of his game at 31 either, and to assume he'd have been the answer is ridiculous. Otherwise, one would think that having spoken to him at length Beane should have at least had an inkling of a clue that he may not be around much longer. Again, the 1-year contract notwithstanding. That reads like a tantrum to me. It's also not aimed at the guy making the claims. That first bolded part reads tantrumatic to me. Otherwise, he's a QB in the NFL, a celebrity figure. Things get said about everyone with that status, some true, much not. But question back to you, what made you wake up and get so angry about it? Why? Why let it bother you. It surely doesn't bother Josh, why should it bother you? Just let it roll off your sleeve. But to impugn fans merely critical of some things that you may not agree with is not the way to go. You even imply above that some things we can complain about. There's plenty to be critical of on the coaching side of the tracks as well as Beane's performance. When the number one thing people say is about a "winning culture," honestly. Which team that wins regularly does not have a winning culture? Any? One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how it's perfectly legit to criticize Gabe Davis when he played through a significant injury all season last year and still put up great numbers for a #2. (I know that anyone reading that that is critical of Davis is already getting steamed up) But here are the facts, while injured, ... Davis put up more yards than 9 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis put up more TDs than 20 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis was 5th in Yards for #2 WRs last season. Davis was 7th in TDs for #2 WRs last season. Yet, a majority here seem to want him shipped out. Talk about tantrums. They take some drops stat, ignore the rest, despite the fact that his drops weren't the primary reason for any loss. Really? You don't see that as a tantrum of sorts? Who here really wants the team not to win a Championship? Which posters will be sitting at home pouting and drowning their sorrows in bourbon if we win the Super Bowl this year? These insinuations are childish. Discussing the team is one thing, criticizing the aspects that are not perfect or need significant improvement/upgrade should certainly be topics that are well within the realm of reasonable discussion. So why do so many people want to shut it down? Why are our fans so critical of a well above-average #2 WR in the league? Maybe they're the problem? I mean after all, we have so many fans that simply don't want the team to improve. You might think that they don't want us to win because they're constantly glancing over key issues and trying to make it so that the team doesn't need to improve to get us there. They hate the team. See how easy it is to impugn the motives of people. Not that I'm serious, just illustrating a point. Of course we all enter the season with optimism to see how things go. The biggest ironies of all involve those here that enter the season with rose-colored glasses and then regularly in the game day threads or later in the season if things don't go right, want to burn down OBD, hang the coaches and GM in effigy, complain about Pegula, ... you know, more tantrums. LOL Anyway, since you solicited a response. Honestly brother, let the media BS roll off your sleeves. Don't give yourself an aneurysm.

I didn't take any offense whatsoever. I was merely providing counterpoints to your seemingly one-sided argument, as you even continue here. I clearly pointed out why Dean didn't start last season. If McD had drafted him and he had sat behind Edmunds, like he did behind Edwards, who's better than Edmunds, agruably I suppose, you and others likely would have said it was great planning and a wise move by McD. But in this case your implication is that it wasn't. OK You also continue to ignore that where Dean was taken was about the latest that any draft analyst out there had him, with some projecting him in the 1st, but most in the early 2nd. Then you say the below ... ... to which I pointed out that "developing Dodson," an undrafted player that hasn't proven much either here or in college that he's even remotely capable of nailing down that MLB spot, that Bernard in the most optimistic draft projection was about where Dean was projected at his absolutely worst, and I have no idea why Spector's entering the conversation at this point, and Williams isn't even a MLB and as I pointed out, there's not one credible draft analyst that claims that he was. Again, you completely step over the bodies of either incompetence or negligence in implicitly, if not outright, defending the team's draft methodologies. None have played enough snaps in the NFL because it's blatant that none stand out in the ability to play the position. Sheeeet, if they can't do it in camp, then what are the odds that they'll do it in real games. Remote, plain and simple since that's not obvious. Meanwhile, you dismiss Dean who's played even fewer snaps "to know," as likely not being good enough. SMH And you can't see the inconsistency in your approach. Oh please ... Look, I get it, you want to defend Beane a/o McD. But let's be honest, there's no good explanation that let's them off the hook on why we have a bare spot in the middle of our defense this season, there simply isn't spin it as you and others have tried to do. Fortunately, and IMO, it's not going to matter much. Don't get me wrong, I suspect that our D falters well into the range of the average, but no doubt you've seen me say that I expect the offense to set franchise records this season and carry us to whatever success we achieve. GO BILLS!!! One week away.

We'll OK, but that doesn't address the topic from where you originally started discussing this with me. It also doesn't address our situation. In short then, you're implication is that Dean may end up being good. But we know that no one we have is going to cut the mustard for any length of time. Sounds like we agree on that. At the end of the day we have a hole there bc Beane didn't adequately address the situation. I have no idea why anyone even argues that as many here do.

We only drink because we don't have a dome. I wonder if there's a correlation between drinking and people jumping off of cars through folding tables. Hmm. I guess we'll never know.

Only if we lose.

I don't understand why stuff like that bothers you. I read stuff that I don't agree with all the time, I don't let it get to me. Much of the time I ignore it and say nothing. It's not worth all that, particularly if it gets to you. Perhaps ask yourself why and try to not let it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You didn't really acknowledge the things that I pointed out that others, not me, said either. When you say things like that you've "stopped taking word that people say at face value a long time ago," you may want to clarify. In the course of discussion, I'm not even sure what that adds to a discussion. If you have nothing to say, IDK, maybe say nothing.

None taken. But during the course of the discussion, I've largely deferred to Dean's play at UGA, his associated videos, and the fact that generally speaking he was a late-1st-Round otherwise 2nd-Round prospect by most Draft analysts, while Dodson wasn't even drafted and Bernard, while drafted by us in the 3rd-Round, and not missed by many posters here at the time, was a 3rd to 5th Rounder on most Draft boards. Ignore me all you want, but ignoring that is a different matter, which is what you've done. Either way, we'll see, won't we. I hate to break it to you, absolutely nothing you or I do, think, or say is going to alter the reality and outcome one iota.

Just throwing this out there, but "hard work" doesn't always mean that someone does their job well. Every coach in the league "works hard," or the vast majority anyway. We'll see how he does this season in the role.