PBF81

My question for anyone that liked either hire would be, why would you hire that person. In Daboll's case, let's go back to 2018 (after the 2017 season) and you, as the HC, say to yourself, I need an OC to replace Rick Dennison. Here's Daboll's coaching history at that time: He starts his NFL coaching career under Belichick as a "Defensive Asst." That goes for 2 years. Then, oddly, he switches to being a WRs Coach there for 5 more seasons. During that span, not one of his WRs breaches 1,000 yards or 7 TDs and typically not even over 800/5. ... with Brady at QB. Then he scoots over to the Jets and coaches QBs for a pair of seasons, to no particular accomplishments or achievements there. Then he gets his first OC gig in Cleveland in '09 and '10. Followed by a stint as OC in Miami for a year, then as OC in KC for a year. In those four years as OC, his only NFL OC coaching gigs, respectively he "leads" his offenses to the following rankings respectively: 29th Scoring, 32nd Yardage 31st Scoring, 29th Yardage 20th Scoring, 22nd Yardage 32nd Scoring, 24th Yardage Then in 2013 he takes a demotion, goes back to New England as an "Asst. Coach" before being allowed to coach Gronkowski as the TEs Coach for three more seasons. Then he goes to Alabama for one season which at the time was something akin to being the coach of a bunch of high school seniors in a league of 8th graders, but college nonetheless, where it's a different gig, and inherits the 16th ranked scoring offense on a team that had already won two straight national championships led by their #1 ranked Defense which is ranked #1 again in the year that he's there. Based on that, as a Head Coach, what in the wide world of sports makes you say to yourself, "this guy's got it going on on offense! His accomplishments as an OC precede him and I've just gotta have this guy coaching my Offense!" BTW, then he came here and led us to the 30th ranked Scoring and 30th ranked Yardage Offense, our worst since 2007, then to the 23rd ranked Scoring and 24th ranked Yardage Offense the year after in 2019 before Allen found his groove. He had zero proven record of developing QBs, his record as an NFL OC was not merely bad, but abysmal. His average Scoring O as an OC was 28th, and his Yardage O 27th. Adding his first two seasons here it wasn't significantly different. In my world you'd have to be drinking an awful lot or be stoned to the nines to come to the conclusion that of all options available, that he was the best possible hire. But that's just me. As to Dorsey, he didn't even have a track record as an OC, and his dossier as a QB Coach in Carolina from 2013 to 2017 was average to below-average for four of those five seasons, and in the one in which Newton had his heyday season, as I've already outlined in the past in places here, they had the easiest schedule of any NFL team from 2011 thru 2022. It featured passing defenses ranked 2nd 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 16th (twice), 18th (twice), 24th, 25th, 28th, 29th, 31st (twice), 32nd, which features 11 of 16 games vs. mostly well below-average passing defenses. Of the first five teams ranked 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th, Newton only had average or better games against Green Bay (10-6) and Tennessee (3-13) that season. 21 of Newton's 35 Passing TDs were against those teams ranked 24th and worse. Against those top 5 passing Ds, Newton had a rating of 86.0. He averaged 1.4 TDs/game, 232 Passing Yards, 58.1% Compl.%, and that was his best season by a country mile. In his four other seasons under Dorsey, Newton averaged 21 TD Passes, 14 INTs, posted season ratings of 88.8, 82.1, 75.8, and 80.7, in that order otherwise, getting progressively worse generally speaking It's not as bad as Daboll, but I still question why anyone in 2018, looking for a QB coach, says to themself, of all options out there, this kid Dorsey's the guy to get the job done. Why? What did he achieve other than in a rogue season? I have my own theory as to why McD chose Dorsey, and I've generally stated it before, but that's irrelevant at the moment. I do question anyone that would consider either of those two to be the best possible options NFL-wide, to get Allen to achieve his full potential.

BTW, if you really want my honest take on why Allen's underachieving/underperforming, just let me know.

Well, OK, objective analyst here, I'm really not a fan of either. I wasn't impressed with anything that Daboll did last season in NY. He beat easy teams and choked overall down the stretch. I suspect that this season, with a much tougher schedule as they play the AFCE, the NFCW, and the Chargers and Lioins, ... along with the Panthers. But his Giants beat only one team with more than 10 wins, they beat the Jags before they went on their winning streak, and he folded down the stretch once teams figured his Giants out, going 3-6-1. I'm going with that that 40-0 drubbing he just sustained will be closer to the reality of his season than making the playoffs is. i.e., Daboll is overrated as either an OC or a HC. In 8 seasons of being an OC in the pros, his offenses have consistently ranked near DFL. The only two seasons where any ranked better than bottom quartile were in '20 and '21 once Allen found his groove. Not really, I already addressed that. The offense scored 14 more points in '21. Both seasons saw a Pick-6, but last season ('22) we had those two KR TDs by Hines. That's 14 points courtesy of STs. I'll also throw this in there, which I've already posted, possibly in this thread, but Allen was almost perfectly consistent from his 1st Half play to his 2nd Half play in '21. Last season however it was horrifically lopsided, 24 TDs in the 1st halves, 11 in the 2nd, among other stats of his. He was far more consistent, far more, in 2021. Whether that was Daboll's influence, who knows, but it is what it is. The offense scored nearly a point more per game in '21. Well that's fine, I'm perfectly good with disagreements here, I appreciate you not getting personal and emotional. LOL

So I present points scored in addressing a question about offense, and you respond with yardage? Last time I checked, the winner was determined by points, not by yards logged. Good thing too, otherwise we'd have been 12-4 last season. We'd have been 14-3 in '21 though. I do keep forgetting that we didn't play all 17 last season, so I forgot that, but the PPG were the same from season to season. But the Offense scored about a point more per game in '21 because we had two KR TDs by Hines last season. Both seasons saw one defensive TD. What's the point of this re: Dorsey?

There was another play after which he looked at the camera and it appeared that he was a little dazed. I have no idea where it was, I'm guessing in the 1st half, but I thought then that he may have had a mild concussion. Either way, if he's not careful, play like he exhibited on Sunday's going to cost the team.

I'm simply trying to reconcile what TF Allen meant when he said that he was never as focused as he was going into this season. After that first game I'm trying to figure out it means in his mind to be focused. Seems to me that would have involved a tremendous amount of offseason work off-the-field, video, etc., leading to his becoming much more like the best in the game at passing, who all take the shorter higher-percentage passes that are handed to them, and figuring out how to do that. Based on the first game that wasn't the case. Maybe less time golfing and more time doing that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The offense scored more PPG in '21 than it did in '22. It was also more consistent. Why? Make sure that you don't assume that simply because someone criticizes Dorsey that they "blame him for everything." Too much of that here. I call it as I see it. Dorsey has his flaws, and adjusting at the half is one of them, he seems to be even worse in-game. Last year was problematic as when, for example, the running game was working great, he'd stop running, even when we were up, and start throwing. Made no sense.

Better than last season. Game 1: 4 for 15, 2 catches for 18 Game 2: 4 for 6, 1 catch for 9 Last season the Jets' Rush D averaged 4.2 YPC and 121.6/game rushing.

Eyes of the beholder I suppose. Cook's runs: 1/10: +3 2/7: +2 1/15: +5 2/7: +8 (1D) 1/10: -5 1/10: +12 (1D) 1/10: -1 2/4: +13 (1D) 1/10: -1 2/1: 3 (1D) 2/4: +4 (1D) 2/15: +3 Cook's Receptions: 2/12: +4 1/10: +3 3/6: +4 1/10: +6

That's typical as we know. He'll be high profile every fourth or fifth game, then in the playoffs he'll be average.

None of our RBs are 3-down RBs. Murray while versatile, is also nearly 34 which excludes him otherwise. They'll need to role-play with them all season. 2:57 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8

IMO hate is a bit strong, but criticism is certainly at least somewhat warranted. Allen is the foundational/cornerstone element to the Offense that Dorsey "coordinates." But wouldn't you agree that it's the job of an OC to adjust to the opposing defense both during games but especially at the half, to the goal of improving and outperforming that same defense and DC? And visa versa for the defense? Here are Allen's stats by half from last season. Last season 24 of Allen's passing TDs were in the 1st halves of games. He had 11 in the 2nd halfs of games, fewer than half as many and not even 1 per game. His INTs were about the same despite having about 25% fewer passing yards in the 2nd halves of games. AKA a somewhat higher INT%. His 1st half rating average was 103.1, his 2nd half rating average was 89.5, the latter of which is incredibly average on a season. While many here are loathe to accept it, in-game adjustments, which is an incredibly significant attribute of the best coaches in the league, is not something that this team has been better than their top opponents at. Last season we averaged 28.4 PPG. Of that, 12.9 PPG were in the 2nd halves, 15.5 in the 1st halves. We started out with 45 of those second half points in the first two games however, but after that our 2nd half average scoring dropped to 11.5.

No argument there, but the context was how many points NE would score against Miami. Roger the second. I'm sure they'll move the ball somewhat, but whether that translates to points we'll see. I'd love nothing more than to see the Pats beat the Fins. Last season they split with the Fins and averaged 260 Total Yards per game, 183 Passing Yards per game, and 15.5 1st-Downs per game. They put up only 17 offensive points in Foxboro, only 7 in Miami. We'll see.

Oh, absolutely. He owes that to the team that gives him what, something akin to $3M/game, if not the fans that essentially allow him to have all those endorsement deals. Most have remained relatively silent on the issue, but the offseason dating, golf, outtings with the boys, etc. alongside his "never been more focused," doesn't seem to jibe. I suppose he deserved the benefit of the doubt, but that's gone now. It was a short honeymoon by the media reaction, both regional (Bills) as well as national. Those defending it are doing so on the merits that he'll be better in most games, which no doubt is true, but we need him to be his absolute best come playoff time when the only times we've won, all but one of the four anyway, have been because of him. The Lombardi isn't a race to 40 TD passes, it's whether or not we can beat the best teams in the AFC in the playoffs, then the best that the NFC puts up. So far we've not done that. I realize that's preaching to the choir, just sayin'. I doubt he'll "fizzle to mediocre" under any circumstances. It's far more likely that he suffers a shoulder or other injury while trying to leap tall players in a single bound. I suppose he could be mediocre after that if his recovery isn't perfect. My position for years now is that he absolutely has to learn how to hit the high-percentage much easier short passes to players that are wide open yet can still make good gains and log 1st-Downs. He has yet to demonstrate that he can do that for an entire season. There's been stretches, but not anywhere approaching an entire season. The best in the league do that second nature. Brady thrived on it. Take what the D gives you when it gives you something. The fact that he's as good as he is, is a testament to his physical capabilities and athleticism. I've never seen another QB in NFL history that does what he does not throwing. Some have run, but not like he does. We'll see how it unfolds. But somewhere in that mix coaching, or not coaching, lurks. The McD apologists are having a difficult time coming to grips with that. And BTW, it's also not fair to his OL when he doesn't do that.

Your implication that New England's offense is as good as the Chargers' offense is noted.

Given that the Jets with Wilson at QB will be among the least balanced offenses that we'll see all season, IMO the defense won't be nearly as good going forward. However, as you imply, the offense should be fine, particularly this week against last season's 26th ranked D and 29th ranked pass D that did little to improve. ... and contrasted with last season's 4th/3rd ranked Ds in that way. It'll be a great re-group game. We should win easily as long as Jacobs isn't allowed to post a huge game. We'll see what McD has up his sleeve for that.

His play was incredibly encouraging, and considering the competition particularly. What IMO was incredibly significant was that all five starting OL-men played 100% of the snaps. THAT'S the way to build OL chemistry!! It reminds me of our '90s OL. You simply have to have competent healthy OL-men to be able to do that.

To your point, the Pats scored 30+ only once last season, to Cleveland, which had a below-average D. In fact, they only put up more than 24 six times, 26 three times, 27, 29, and that 38 against the Browns. Four of those defenses ranked 28th - 31st. Cleveland was 20th. Only the Ravens (26) was 3rd.

I share your concern. The Raiders will be more balanced offensively which will be a bigger test for our D. On the flip side, Allen and the O should get a reprieve this week on the D side as the Raider D wasn't very good last season and they did little to improve it.

Chiefs @ Jags and Pats @ Fins seem to have the biggest implications for us. Would love to watch both but the first conflicts with our game. Both should be great games.

Hedging I see. As expected. I asked you for what you looked at and read to come to that conclusion. I gave you some of my reference points. I'm doing my best to see things the way that you see them, but I cannot do that without seeing what you looked at. It seems that either you don't want to provide that, or that you really don't have much to back it up and simply want to argue with me. Either way, I've done my best to see things you way. Without your assistance in providing what you've seen and read, I cannot help anymore. We're finished here. Again however, I do firmly believe that you will be altering your opinion as the season goes on. I'm not one that gives a crap about "being right," otherwise I'd bookmark these posts. But remember your take now and then consider why you believed whatever you believed when the time comes. If it doesn't and TB develops into a world-class run defender, then please, by all means, feel perfectly free to throw it back in my face. I will happily accept it at that time should that come to pass. About all I can do now.

Thank you! There's someone that knows his football. LBs and Ss consistently lead in tackle rankings, for what should be obvious reasons.

He's good in pass-coverage. He's simply not well suited to being a LB on running plays. The fact that Beane picked him as a MLB is on Beane, it really shouldn't be on Bernard. Poor dude's out of position in the NFL. Bernard was a 3rd-5th round prospect on every board of the 10+ that I saw. Here's his NFL.com Draft Profile, which IMO is pretty much what we saw on Monday and in preseason. Draft Projection: 5th Round Project Grade: 5.94 - Average Backup or Special Teamer Overview Undersized sub-package nickel linebacker with special-teams value on the next level. Bernard possesses elite intangibles and teams will be drawn to him because of it. He's resilient, productive and showed a willingness to play through pain. However, Bernard lacks the desired frame and play strength and will face scrutiny surrounding his injury history. He needs space to operate and has the speed for man-cover duties as a pro. If the medicals check out, he should be a Day 3 pick with sub-package value. Strengths - Scouts rave about his leadership and character. - Never-quit attitude despite adversity. - Film junkie who rang up 100-plus tackles in 2019 and 2021. - Rapid read and response against play-action. - On a continuous quest to go get the football. - Loose and fluid in pursuit and change of direction. - Bends and flattens off the corner as a blitzer. - Speed to cover man targets underneath. Weaknesses - Slender frame might be maxed out. - Gets caught up too easily in the clutter. - Engulfed by size if he's not proactive. - Struggles to fit and hold a gap. - Knocked off-balance by redirect blocks. - Loses pursuit leverage, allowing back to cross his face. - Angles to runner leave little margin for error as tackler. - Average coverage recognition.

I hear ya, but once it's obvious that isn't happening he really needs to take care to ensure that he doesn't further risk injury. I remember wondering whether he's going to get injured as that play unfolded, as no doubt did many. It was clear prior to that hurdle attempt that he wasn't going to get the 1st, there were too many defenders around. Especially with more defenders clearly there. But why is the question.

How do you know what my background is? Otherwise, as I added in edit, what are these expert sources that you've cited, what, Youtubers? LOL Again, from what I've seen absolutely none contradict what I've laid out. In fact, they focus on his role in pass defense/coverage. Which again, I have no argument with. So show me all of these expert sources, I'll see what their background is, and we can go from there. See, the difference between you and I in this exchange, is that I've provided info from several sources. All you've provided is that you've watched so-called "experts" without having pointed out to me their videos, articles featuring details, etc. Maybe you have to someone else, but not to me you haven't. So feel free to post them. Maybe I'll agree with you after I view them.