PBF81

BTW, let's get back to the central discussion topic, we're in the mire here, so I'll put it another way. When money comes from taxpayers to fund business expenses, aka a stadium in this case, for business owners of private businesses which the people paying have no business interests in, ... and, when that money comes from those same people that as a majority do not approve or otherwise consent to it, ... and, when there is no basis of any sort, for taking money from one set of people at large and giving it to individuals for purposes of funding that business owner recipient's private business expenses, ... then we can argue, I suppose, as to whether or not it's theft, but there is absolutely no argument that from an ethics and moral perspective that it even approaches being right. There are ramifications re: our discussion up to this point, related to that, but I again, only if you want to take that up offline. But that was the original core of the argument.

Wrong. There's a lot of background that you are missing and clearly have no interest in getting. Either way, happy to continue to discuss if you want to invest the time, but this isn't the place.

Wow, great catch by the little tyke!

I just looked at the Skins' front-7, they're quite formidable, perhaps as good as the Jets. Should be an interesting game insofar as our offense goes. I'm hopeful, but I didn't realize that they were that good. Sheeeet, half of Buffalo now lives in the mid-Atlantic region. LOL

That's largely correct. I've already also answered that question. Perhaps go back and read the entire context, and it'll come to you. There are a lot of things that our government, those that control it, and its agents do that are illegal, but the heavy hand of tyranny doesn't care about laws, does it. Either way, as I've said, this is a football forum, not a tax/political forum. I have difficulty polluting it as such. Feel free to take on the things that I posed to WEO via PM. I'm more than happy to engage you there. GO BILLS!!!

Beyond the original context of the discussion and not for this forum. OK

That's the most superficial argument that exists. I'm not sure that this is the place for this discussion, and it's gotten away from our differences over the semantics of and loose connotations of "theft" as it applies in the original context of the general discussion. But if you really want to go down this rabbit hole, and I'm more than happy to as I do it semi-regularly, we can start up in the appropriate forum. Or via PM. To start, the 16th was never ratified. It's also difficult to avoid discussion of the Federal Reserve when discussing this. The vast majority have no clue that t the Federal Reserve is neither federal (it's a privately held corporation, largely owned by foreign interests) or a reserve of anything. So why does it control our economy and national monetary policies instead of Congress. (rhetorical) But make no mistake, the two are related. There's a reason why the Fed was created covertly within 48 hours of Christmas Day after Congress had adjourned for the holiday. There's a reason why Wilson, from academia, not politics, whose term it was under, famously exclaimed that he had ruined our country by having allowed it. It also wasn't coincidental that the three most influential men that opposed it were in the Titanic on it's ill-fated voyage. If your truly interested in this, I would first recommend a book, but at least a great summary documentary video that's about 90 minutes or so. It makes no sense to take this up without the relevant background. Let me know.

Yeah, human behavior is incredibly strange say times. Ridiculous what you experienced. Fortunately the TV viewing experience is very good these days. As a matter of principle I typically won't drop more than a couple hundred bucks per ticket for very good seats. If it's gonna cost me $2k to take the family to a game, I'd rather take us on a long weekend vacation, or hell, a full week offseason somewhere. I'm curious how the new stadium pricing structure plays out in Buffalo.

Yeah, same here. It's a few hours for me to get there. Then dealing with everything. My daughter wanted to go with me but they wouldn't let her off work. Now it looks like likely on/off rain throughout the game. Tix are cheap though, good ones too, on our side of the field. Tough gig going by oneself for that long. I might try Philly. I'm curious if the fans are really that bad there to opposing fans. I've heard it's gotten much better in recent years.

I look on Googlemaps, it appears to be a little bit less than a mile. It's been a while since I've been to a game there, but as I recall the tailgating in the main lots sucks. Some of the perimeter lots, which are corporate parking lots, are at least that far from the stadium as well. So I guess it depends upon how much you're willing to pay. If money's no matter than yeah, I'd probably pay to park up front too. It's definitely not like "home" though. LOL

How 'bout this, post the law that states that individuals are by law obligated to pay personal income taxes. That's a lot easier. It's also what I pointed out originally. The IRS people can't do it, nor does anyone else from the government. I'm eagerly awaiting you doing it. I've got quite a few people that will be interested in that info once you provide it, since you're so confident it exists. And "what the government does," one of the most corrupt institutions in history? Really? In fact, I'm pretty sure that at least one prominent source has offered money to anyone providing that law. If you find it, if I can find them, I'll split it with you. Looking forward to what you come up with.

He shoulda bought a porta-potty, painted it Jets green, and put a Jets logo on it.

That'd be cool. I'm simply interested in what the details of the inside of the stadium will look like and still perplexed as to why they're not out yet. Where would a WOF be in the new stadium. The sides are typically reserved for the ribbon electronics. When are these virtual tours going to begin.

The nice thing about Fed Ex Field is that they have a metro. So it's possible to park elsewhere for cheap and ride in. FEF isn't very good for tailgating either, so that may be a good option. I know it's too late since you already bought the parking pass, just sayin'.

Maybe that Buffalo Tree Stump was a failed attempt. Great catch!! LOL

That's completely untrue. People have in fact won in court and if you want to try you can win too. But as they say, "justice" is expensive, and they'll run you into 100s of thousands in gettting it, not to mention the time, stress, chances of a procedural (not factual) miscue, etc. But it has not been routinely defeated in court. Also, there are IRS people on record agreeing that there are no laws requiring anyone to pay personal income tax. Again, if there are, you're free to find it and post it. You'd be the first. I wasn't talking about NYS law, I'm talking about the federal basis for it, upon which any state laws are to one or more extents prediicated. Either way, we're off on a tangent. But to take money from someone that may not care whether or not a stadium even exists, or from fans such as myself and others here that enjoy a team but also realize that it's a business and as such the business owners should pay for their own business expenses, just like the rest of us that own businesses, is a form of theft because it gets taken without their permission for that use. What I always find amusing is that the owners and everyone else treat it as a business when it's convenient, but seem to forget about the business aspect of it if it's not. Stadium expenses, either direct or "merely" the financing of them, which can cost more over time than the stadium itself, are a business expense and should be attributed to the business, not the taxpayers. I know of few businesses that have the perks of being able to have other taxpayers pay for their lease, rent, commerical mortgage, etc. We can sugarcoat it and call it whatever we want, but anytime that something is taken from people, and hypocritically and inconsistently applied in terms of payouts, then it's a form of theft. Much as if NYS gave money to someone that wanted to build the world's tallest office building in Central NY, and got tax money to do it. I doubt that you (if it were your tax money) wouldn't agree that it was akin to theft. Simply because owners like Pegula hold the fans of a region over a barrel doesn't alter the reality. Otherwise, let everyone in the state that owns a business, "benefits the community," "brings in tax money," etc. be able to apply to have their fellow taxpayers cover their commercial mortgage financing too. That wouldn't go over very well if applied universally. Yet ... "Too Big to Fail" was a prime example of that 15 years ago.

I don't know what's going on in this thread, I just poked my head in out of boredom and read a few posts. As to this season, we'll have to see. We've traditionally been an emotional team that typically comes out its strongest in the home opener and up front. Consider last season where we came out of the gate swinging and obliterated both the Rams and Titans. The talk was all about us waltzing our way to a Championship. Obviously that didn't happen and in the aftermath we learned that neither the Rams or Titans were any good that season. The Raiders have a good offense but not a good D. Last season they were a bottom-four D. The point, ... we need a half season of performance before we start drawing further conclusions. We're easily headed for the most difficult schedule McD has ever had here in Buffalo. If he can go 12-5+ and win the division, it'll be impressive unless our Defense isn't a top-10 D and it's all on the success of the O. By the end of the season however, the Jets (w/o Rodgers), Raiders, and Skins are likely to be among the worst four or five teams on our schedule though. The Giants, Denver and Tampa are the other contenders. The positive about the OL is that we finally appear to have five consistent starters that will be seeing 100% or close to 100% of the snaps. It's a far cry from rotating OL-men in and out during games on a regular basis. The chemistry difference from years past should be palpable. Agree on the sentiment otherwise. We'll see how things progress, or possibly don't.

Agree I also think that a lot of people viewing via these streams do so from overseas. Not sure they'd be willing to pay for them however. IDK, just posing it. Relatedly, I did my best to get the All-22 from NFL.com. Put in my card info, etc. But afterwards, when it came time for access, it said I couldn't access it. Some (error?) message about DAZN not being available in my country, here, the U.S. I tried a bunch of times to get access to the A22 as well as to a couple of other things that I tried just for sihts and giggles. Three different browsers. NONE of it worked. So, I tried to pay, actually did before canceling, but they didn't make the product that THEY gave me the link for, actually work. Now I need to check my CC statements to make sure that they're cancelation system works too, otherwise I'll have to waste more of my time dealing with that. Wouldn't be the first time. Seems to me that if I can find, for example, that A22 elsewhere, well, I guess that's what I'll do, pay or not. But that's not my problem at this point, it's theirs. They didn't want my money. ... or rather, they did, but they didn't/couldn't offer the service that they promised in exchange for it. And I'm always stunned and amazed when these enormous multi-billion dollar international corporations can't seem to get the most basic of IT things down. Heaven knows that those at the top get paid enough. The EOs and VPs of IT and such. It shouldn't be that complicated frankly. In my case it had to do with DAZN, whatever that is. But if I now need 2 subscriptions(?), one that they told me I can't get(?), it expands the topic. And as others have pointed out, also, why can't they simply offer all Bills (single team) games for example at significantly less than the Sunday Ticket price. I pretty much don't care about the rest of the NFL. Sure, I'll watch a good game here and there if it's on for free, or TNF on Prime or whatever, but I'm not paying to watch other teams. If they want money, at least tailor to what people want, and, most importantly, make sure that the services that they hypothetically offer actually work.

I would argue that it hasn't "passed him by," but that he owes his historical career to Mo Lewis. I hope that he at least sent Mo a nice fruit basket at some point. Not sure I ever see him being fired per se however. I think if anything he and Kraft would very very discreetely discuss his "resgination" if it ever came to that, to the extent that it would appear to be genuine.

What does that have to do with Hines' performance here v. at Indy? BTW, doesn't that make you wonder why we didn't run the ball more? I believe that we also ran the ball less using our RBs than any other team in the league. For what that's worth.

We're disagreeing on the definition of theft. Laws do not always reflect morality. There is no law requiring people to pay personal income taxes, for example, yet if you do not, the heavy-handed IRS/Government will come down hard on you. i.e., that's against the law too, taking from people without a law to support it. Therefore, that's theft. A pretty classic definition of it in fact. What they (those that took it illegally) do with the money doesn't matter. It's still theft. Giving it to billionaire sports team owners then implicates them in that theft in the same way that people getting paid to rob a bank and give the loot to a mob-figure or someone else, after getting their "cut," however "cut" is defined, implcates that mob-figure or someone else.

We'll, we can disagree, but the equivalent of backroom deals with politicians, which we know as fact go on, for applying tax moneys for the business expenses of people far wealthier than those from whom the taxes come, is essentially theft. Semantics aside. What if the average Joe business owner "that serves his community" via a popular business, had his financing on his brick-n-mortar, or other expense, funded by taxpayers. I'm pretty sure the take would be different.

Oh yeah, I was just asking what was in his area of DC. Wing Factory's are better than Badd's. Easily IMO. And no, there aren't many options. Always looking for better ones.

Yeah, half smokes are simply smoked sausages. They're typically pork but can be both. I'm not sure whether Ben's is all pork or both. I just know where they get em.

Thanks. I've had Badd's wings in VA. They're OK. I'd rate 'em as pretty average by Buffalo standards. Nothin special. Their pizzas are better, but pretty expensive comparatively. I didn't realize they were in DC too. They're really getting around the region.