PBF81

That's the reality. The talent is there. Or OL is the best it's n been since most of us can remember. Allen wasn't sacked once yesterday. If we can't get this right then it's obviously on Dorsey. But Sorry works for McD the last time I looked. The things you mentioned would be easily correctable if McD simply told Dorsey to "start doing (this)" or "so doing (that).". So once again, McD is avoiding much criticism and blame here. If he's not capable of doing that, well ...

And our defense has lost us all the playoff games that got us booted from the playoffs. 27, 36, & 38 in reg. Your point? All it has to do is cut it for four weeks come playoff time. We haven't been able to count on the D in the playoffs.

The offense is fine. That's what's going to determine our fate this season. Gotta run it right. Play calling was not good often yesterday.

Miller played 20 snaps. About a quarter of the team's D snaps. The trade for him was a risky one, high risk high-reward. Unfortunately the risk part has played out. It's unwise to think that at his age, 34, and coming off that injury, that he'll ever be back to what he was or even close. The only reason why I noticed him yesterday was because I wondered whether he was in and was looking for his number.

I'd like to see more of 'em in general. Cook had 5 carries, 3 in the 1st half. Harris had 3 carries, 2 in the 1st half. Murray had 2 carries, both in the 1st half. Only 3 carries in the second half, two by Cook, one by Harris. It would be nice to see us run more, but also nice to see some non-boneheaded running plays called.

Well, OK, then it was a coin-flip, but we lost, and really not all that closely. Just sayin'. Allen, Diggs, Davis and the OL gave Allen time. But there are definitely reasons to criticize coaching.

How so? ... by what measure? IOW, what's your basis for stating that?

I hear ya. But consider too, last season we lost Hyde for the Season, White for most of it, and Miller for most of it. Now we have Miller and Hyde back but are without Milano and White again, and possibly Johnson, who plays nickel, not starting CB. I don't see why things should be that much different, particularly since we added Floyd. We know that the NFL standings landscape will look somewhat different than it does now.

OK, so given the other issues that we have, where would McD have been now without Allen? I believe the context was Allen covering a multitude of shortcomings.

Yeah, me too. My take is that perhaps we've tried too hard during the regular season to be as perfect as possible. I'd rather lose another couple of games, or three, get in as a Wild Card, and not have the weight/burden of being the #1 or #2 seed. IDK, maybe that would help. Doing what we've been doing hasn't helped.

Can't the same argument be extrapolated to McD as well? Seems as if the obvious answer to that is yes. If McD didn't have Allen he'd be mimicking Belichick in NE sans Brady.

Last season we lost White, Hyde, and Miller, and Poyer was injured and still went 13-3 and won the division. Our OL was not what it is now, we didn't have Kincaid or Harris. Dorsey's in his second season. Patience.

Yes, I realize that you didn't think it was overrated. I said that I suggested the likely possibility that it was. I don't expect you or anyone to agree. The rest sounds like a Beane problem. When your team is all but entirely reliant upon two or three players, in this case Jones, Milano, White, and a nickel back, for a drop from near 1st in D ranking to as you suggest above, "bottom or very close to bottom," then it's gotta be a GM issue. Especially when you consider that we were without White for most of last season, Hyde for all of it, Poyer limited, and otherwise hardly without any key injuries despite the one overlapping one of White.

You raised an interesting proposition. I have no immediate thoughts on this, but here are our 1st-Down plays from today. FWIW ... 1: Cook right guard for 5 2: Cook right guard for -1 3: Allen incomplete short right 4: Allen complete to Knox for 1 on 1st-and-10 -------- 5: Allen short right to Diggs for 15 on 1st-and-10 6: Allen short left to Davis for 9 on 1st-and-10 7: Allen incomplete short right to Diggs 8: Allen short middle to Cook for 18 on 1st-and-10 9: Allen 7-yard scramble on 1st-and-10 10: Allen short right to Diggs for 6 on 1st-and-10 11: Allen short right to Diggs for 15/TD on 1st-and-10 -------- 12: Allen short right to Diggs for 14 yards on 1st-and-10 13: Cook RT for no gain 14: Allen deep to Diggs for 48 yards on 1st-and-10 15: Allen short right to Cook for no gain on 1st-and-10 -------- 16: Allen short middle to Kincaid on 1st-and-10 17: Harris RG for 5 yards on 1st-and-10 18: Allen deep right to Davis for 24 on 1st-and-20 19: Allen short left to Knox for 11 on 1st-and-20 20: Allen short left to Sherfield for 3 on 1st-and-10 21: Cook UTM for -2 on 1st-and-10 22: Allen incomplete short right to Diggs on 1st-and-Goal at the 9 23: Allen deep left to Harty for 43 on 1st-and-10 24: Allen deep left to Davis for 29 on 1st-and-10 25: Allen incomplete on a throwaway 26: Allen deep right to Diggs for 16 on 1st-and-10, Diggs fumbled

It's not as if we got blown out, it's quite feasible that that little advantage for the Jags was more than enough to account for our performance vs. theirs.

Drive 1 ended on a short incompletion to Cook. Drive 2 ended on a 5-yard pass to Kincaid on 3rd-and-6. Drive 3 ended on a short incompletion to Knox. Drive 4 ended on 1-yard pass to Murray on 3rd-and-7. Drive 5 resulted in a TD to Diggs. Drive 6 ended on an Allen throwaway incompletion. Drive 7 ended on a deep incompletion to Knox. Drive 8 ended on an INT intended for Diggs. Drive 9 resulted in a TD to Davis. Drive 10 resulted in an Allen TD run. Drive 11 ended on a Diggs' fumble. On our scoring drives, here is the total breakdown by player: Murray: 2 carries for 6 yards Harty: 2 catches for 62 yards Cook: 2 catches for 25 yards, 1 run for -2 yards Allen: 3 runs for 15 yards and 1 TD Diggs: 3 catches for 29 yards and 1 TD Davis: 4 catches for 82 yards and 1 TD Knox: 1 catch for 11 yards Sherfield: 1 catch for 3 yards Shakir: 1 catch for 11 yards FWIW

LOL It's funny because it's true. ... come on be happy! I'd like to know what page they are on.

Yeah, saw that. But my point is that other teams suffer significant injuries and still play well because they're well-coached. I have no idea what's going to happen going forward, but if it does completely fall apart, many will excuse McD completely, but IMO that's not reasonable. We also shouldn't need a top-5 D to win it all. None of the recent SB winners have.

I realize that. My point is that our D clearly wasn't as good with Milano out. I wasn't paying attention to who was playing the LB positions, and I do note that I saw some numbers that I wasn't familiar with, aka depth players. My point is entirely that it was risky entering the season with only Milano as a standout LB. Yeah, Bernard had a good game, I thought that Williams played admirably from what I caught as well. Again, I don't know why, but allowin nearly 200 rushing yards is a problem. I haven't looked at why yet, not sure I'm going to. Time consuming and it is what it is. I'm focused on the offense this season. I don't care how good our D is, or conversely isn't, IMO that's not what's going to determine our record or our chances in the playoffs. I obviously don't speak for everyone, you know that my take is that our defense has failed us in the playoffs and that IMO we'll have a record-setting offense this season. I still stand by that. I know your take, if I suggested otherwise it wasn't deliberate. Well, last week we had everyone and still allowed nearly 400 net yards. Again, w/o the key TOs last week,that game is much tighter. But let's not leap-frog what IMO is the point to all of this, IMO we overrated our defense based upon our play vs. Wilson/Jets' O, Garropalo/Raider's O, and Howell/Skins' O. Everyone pointed out about our Point Differential, while I pointed out that we've allowed over 100 yards per game more than last season through four games, which IMO was significant given the sentence prior to this one. As it now stands, last season we allowed an average of 240 YPG while this season we're allowing 325 YPG, last season through 5 games, 61 points, this season, 80 points. A little of that may have to do with today's game, but hardly all of it. My point is not necessarily that this D is worse than last season's D, but that last week everyone was arguing that hands down "McD's D was better than Frazier's." I didn't necessarily see that either. But by the same standard, what, in one week it went from better to worse? ... just playing devil's advocate here for the forum.

LOL, you'd make a great politician.

Chiefs losing Kelce is worse for them than us losing Milano. Our season is going to only be as good as our offense is this season. The offense will be fine.

He seemed off today. He had only 2 passing TDs. Playing the way he did last week, IMO we score 38+. He wasn't bad, not at all, just seemed off. I mean 116 1st half passing yards and 7 1st-Downs? You gonna try and tell us all that was good now too? ... BTW, go through the gameday thread, others saying it as well. My wife, who covers sports for a living, said the same as did two fellow fans that I was texting with during the game.

Agree for the most part. As to the first part, not having the horses, we had AJE who played a career game, Oliver, and Floyd, our LBs after the undersized Williams and Dodson as you mention are not meant to anchor an entire LB unit. I'm sure you'll recall my statements over the past few months as to if Milano got hurt we'd be screwed entirely at LB. Well, that day has arrived. Milano covered some weaknesses in the unit to be sure. But here's the thing, if we're not happy, this has to be on Beane. IMO there's enough there to piece together an average D if one knows what they're doing. Miller will be back full in a week or two, ... presumably. But also, we're hardly the only team to have injuries, and like other teams that sustain significant ones, we'll simply have to deal with it. We can't cry in our soup over ours but neglect the fact that other teams deal with them expectedly too. While I was watching the game I kept thinking to myself, please please please no OL-men injured. Our offense is intact. Allen had a pocket today that I don't recall having seen in the past several seasons. You know my belief, that it's the offense that's going to carry this team. And while Jax has a decent D, it's not so good that it should have held us to 20 points. It seems that the biggest issue was that Allen seemed tired and out of it. If he's on as he typically is, then we probably win that game. As to the sports science, I have no idea what transpired over the week re: "sports science," all I know is what I read today, so I have no idea what's going on re: SS and the team, but common sense would dictate what you said as well, not sure why science is needed. And it would have been prudent to have erred on the side of more days than not enough. Agree on the penalties, in fact those are the ones that I'd have pointed out as well. A few less egregious but going both ways otherwise. But in the example of RTP on Jags' Allen, I mean what's he supposed to do, or any D player in those situations, remove his head. LOL Ahhh, it is what it is. I'm most concerned about allowing nearly 500 net yards to a team led by the likes of Ridley, Kirk, and Engram on the receiving end. They're all very good players but none are superlative or even close. Engram's a good but far from great TE. The LB unit's going to be a problem, but for exactly the reasons I'd warned about as you realize. We play a very unconventional form of defense, regularly, that I don't see any other teams employing. Not saying that there isn't one, just saying I haven't see one. But it was also predicated heavily upon Milano. The flip side, as I've pointed out, is that defense typically fails us come playoff time, so as long as the offense can optimize itself, and we did not do that today, then we should be fine. At present though we're leaning more and towards perhaps a 10-7 finish, a WC seed, and having to get hot offensively, on the road, in the playoffs. We'll see what happens, but we're 2-2 Conference now and in a four-way tie for 1-1 division. We should beat the Jets at home and I'd be stunned if we don't take two from NE, so it may very well come down to whether or not we can beat @ Miami for the division. Given the injury developments I'm guessing that they're a better bet to win the division at this point

Love it!

White's been out most of last season, most of last week and today. We were fine w/o him. Yes, he's elite, but he hasn't been around for a year. Milano was the best defensive player on the team, no doubt. But if there's one thing that we don't lack, it's depth.