PBF81

Answer my question first, then I'll answer yours. I'll simplify it for you. Let's say that Allen predated McD. Whomever the coach is after a year or two with Allen gets fired. Do you hire McD? So now it's would you have hired McD, and why.

You may be in luck this season. A good coach would win this division decisively this year with the roster we have. Yes you do, it's easy to do as fans of teams, that's rampant. Trying to separate one's emotions from reality can be difficult.

The strength of this team come playoff time isn't even the Offense, it's Allen. Our offense is nowhere close to optimal under McD. This is a Brady/Belichick arrangement except that at least Belichick's Ds didn't completely fold in the playoffs.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, please stop turning this into being about a single game. I was simply responding to this entire no-fault mantra for McD in this game. Everyone knows about McD's chokes in the playoffs, except for those here that will defend him into perpetuity with Allen before they realize that with any other QB he'd suck.

It's a very fair question. Sorry you struggle with it. I fully understand why you and everyone else does. Not one person here has answered it. That's disingenuousness at its finest. Just because it happened doesn't mean that it should have been conceivable. But hye, you're on the right track despite your inability to separate your emotions from your objectivity. Typically when "inconceivable" things occur, people start asking tough questions. McD's got more lives than a cat. Not to worry, it'll start clearing up for you this upcoming season. I have zero difficulty already seeing the excuses lining up here like people in line for free cheese to go along with their whine.

You answer this question and I'll answer yours. Suppose Allen had predated McD, then our coach was fired. Would you have even considered hiring McD at that point? Why?

Up by 10 on the very drive/play before that, with the fans going absolutely bonkers, in that playoff environment, against Skylar Thompson, yes, yes it is inconceivable, quite inconceivable in fact, the rest of your emotionally laden tantrum aside.

LOL No, you don't get it. You'll defend McD regardless of anything that provides reasons as to why he doesn't cut it in the playoffs. When your team goes up by 10 late in the 3rd, following a 68-yard TD drive, then, as a "defensive minded head coach," allow the opponent who's headed by a siht QB that's lucky to even be in the NFL, in his second start as a rookie and which hasn't done a damn thing all game, post the best TD drive of the game on either side to bring the game back to within three with 10 minutes remaining in the game, in that playoff environment in which the fans did everything they could, you bear at least some responsibility for a game that should have been a blowout and not even have been close. It's not as if McD's playoff prowess is even above-average much less exceptional apart from that single game, it's not, it's miserable. How anyone can possibly defend McD's coaching in the playoffs is simply bizarre given the facts. It's one thing to defend his regular season, but in the playoffs he sucks. His team very rarely comes together as a whole and has at times been unprepared, typically being out-coached by decent opposing coaches, even in playoff wins in games that we had no business allowing to be as close as they were. There hasn't been a single player, not one, who in his tenure here has even remotely been consistent in the playoffs, and given the hype about our D and all the talent it has, that's particularly on him since he's the creator of the D. ... besides Allen that is.

Great question, but when it comes down to the END of the game and something like that happens, it's relevant, not irrelevant as many like to make it. As implied, Skylar Thompson is a nothing QB that's lucky to be playing in the NFL as a third-stringer. He brought absolutely nothing special or any special skillset to the NFL as the 15th from last pick of the Draft in '22 and was projected as an undrafted FA at least by the major draft outlets with many not even reviewing him. Miami had no business even getting on the board much at that game, the atmosphere was insane, at home, with our team easily the better team. Had Thompson had to start all season for Miami they'd have been fortunate to win 4 or 5 games. The fact that he was able to mount such a drive, as a rookie in his second start given the above, in that atmosphere, and looking like a seasoned NFL starting QB, at that point in the game is indicting to say the least. McD has a bad habit of turtle-shelling and choking at or near the end of playoff games.

Maybe the fact that it was Skylar Thompson on the other side, who isn't likely to start another game in the NFL, in his second and only other NFL start, led the Fins to a 75-yard drive and TD going 4 of 6 for 59 yards on the drive to bring the game to within 3 in the 4th Quarter. Hardly a feather in anyone's defensive cap. The fact that a Skylar Thompson team even scored more than 17 points, FGs or otherwise, is ridiculous, and at home for us in Buffalo.

You touched on something here. It shouldn't matter if it's Allen, as I've pointed out elsewhere, what's needed for us is an OC (or HC) that can see the forest for the trees as the adage goes, to piece together our offense with Allen as the centerpiece, to get every bit out of it that can be gotten. Reid and others that understand offense that well do that, we never have under Allen. QBs simply won't have that perspective. Allen's personal preferences are nice, but they've failed us now. Brady didn't save the season, a defense that gave up only 15 PPG average in our 6 wins did. That should be obvious. If we had allowed the same vs. the Pats, Bengals, and Broncos, we'd have been 8-2 at the point that Dorsey was replaced by Brady. Why this eludes so many remains befuddling.

That's too bad. Sorry, but you look at Singletary's aggregate stats, and 2023 gamelog if you really need to, and you tell me what's missing from your analysis? They even provide the data for in there. With touch search function shouldn't take but a few seconds. This is elementary research/analysis, as elementary as it gets. If you're hanging up here ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

Which is interesting since we cannot seem to beat anything but 6 & 7 seeds in the playoffs, with one exception, a 5th seed on a team that simply can't score in the playoffs with Jackson as their QB. Under Jackson, the Ravens have averaged a mere 16 PPG in the playoffs over 7 games, 13 PPG in 6 of those games. Also, that we can beat KC in the regular season (3-1) but not in the playoffs. (0-3) That's ridiculous! To start, if we can go 3-0 vs. the Chiefs in the regular season, it's 100% defeatist to assume that we can't do the same in the playoffs. The entire difference there is Reid v. McD/(Daboll/Dorsey/Brady/whichever stiff is next after Brady gets the scapegoat treatment by McD). Honestly, what you're implying there, which is the truth accidentally, is that McD simply isn't a good playoffs coach.

13-Seconds and the Cincy game defense were hardly execution. The first cost us the game after the offense had won it. That's pretty well known by now. Again, fans need to learn to separate the playoffs from the regular season. Other than for this past season there are few complaints about our regular seasons. The playoffs are a whole different thing. That's where the better coaches earn their stripes.

Let's just drop this between us. You've already predetermined your position. No need to continue. It should be fairly obvious however.

Roger We also have Rousseau over there, time for Rousseau and AJE to step up into full-time starting roles.

Enough talk. Let's see him put up. Let the play do the talking. No one wants to hear it. Besides, he and AJE share the position, right, ... let the youngster play.

I think I confused you on that with someone else. That's one of the issues with these mixed threads. Either way, we've beaten this to death, we'll see what happens this season. But majority fan opinion means nothing otherwise in that context. It's not an analysis, it's emotion. Well yeah, if that's the extent of your analysis. Then it is. LOL Nice work!

No, what I'm doing is stating that any changes post-Dorsey were obviously driven by Brady and which unmistakeably resulted in a fast greater emphasis on the running game. That should be more than clear by now. The team, local, national media all pointed out out, proudly. The extent to which that was made clear to Brady by McD is unknown, but we'd have to be folks to think that Brady did that all by himself for several reasons. As to the contrived #1/#2 thing, as you'll find out this season, that was a self-fulfilling prophecy without going into the details, ... again. Doesn't it raise questions to you that Davis "lost a step" too and that Kincaid & Shakir both "gained a step" as soon as Brady took over? This staff starting at the top hasn't been open or honest with us regarding Dogs for well over a year now. That seems to be McD's MO, the utmost of secrecy. That way no one can hold him accountable. If you really think that Allen's going to achieve record highs with this receiving cadre I'm not even sure what to say at that point. Until he gets to the NFL. Read what all the "experts" said on both or-Draft. Also, depends upon how he's used. Singletary has already proven that he was capable of more than we got out of him.

A lot of narrative driven superficiality there. I highly doubt that we even approach leading the league in paying yards or attempts. But allow me to ask, what was the difference then between Brady's O and Dorsey's, and why does Brady get credit for us going 6-1 to finish the season? You cannot have it both ways. A lot of narrative driven superficiality there. I highly doubt that we even approach leading the league in paying yards or attempts. But allow me to ask, what was the difference then between Brady's O and Dorsey's, and why does Brady get credit for us going 6-1 to finish the season? You cannot have it both ways. And you obviously completely ignored all that data.

No, it's not overdramatic at all. I just made a lengthy post in an exchange with hondo on page 4 of the biggest lingering questionmarks thread, you can see some of the other evidence there. But to tackle your data here, to start, we have to look at the difference in rushing from years prior, which again, some of that was addressed in the aforementioned post. But he had on/about twice the number of rushing TDs this season than in prior seasons. But part of it also is why does he even have to do the goal line carries? Part of it is because Cook is useless down there. Now we drafted Davis, is he really going to be much different than Singletary or Moss. Murray had 17 carries down near the goal line, 4 for TDs. Will Davis be better than that? He's similarly sized as Moss and Singletary. Why would they use him at the goal line? Murray was bigger and far more experienced. Either way, Josh had 15 rushing TDs this past season. Five from 16, 13, 11, 10 and 9. Two from 6. The other 8 were one from 3 out, two from 2 out, and five from 1 out. That's 15 carries for 83 yards if my quick math is correct. But under Brady in those 7 games, Allen had 8, over half of those rushing TDs, from 16, 9, 6, 2, and 1 four times. That's 8 carries for 37 yards. Even with those subtracted and then, after that, extrapolated for a full season, Allen would still post 134 carries on the season which is 10 more than his max rushing attempt season. But the question is why would they not run Josh at the goal line? Davis isn't much different than Singletary or Moss. But you also said it doesn't mean that we're going in the direction of being a running team, but McD has plainly stated that they want to get the rushing game going more. There was even a ridiculous discussion here in defense of that about a year ago talking about how the league is going back to ball-control football with more teams rushing again. But if that's true and McD believes it, then why has he continually, and still has, crafted his D to defend the pass. Cook's carries also jumped about 40% greater per game under Brady & complimentary football, by nearly 5 carries/game more. Murray's carries jumped by about the same percentage under Brady in the four games that he was used. Johnson was unused as a rusher under Dorsey, he came in under Brady and provided about 5 carries more per game. So yeah, we were statistically running the ball more and throwing less. Allen's attempts decreased marginally. On Brady's watch our average carries per game increased from 25.4 to 36.9, a 45% increase in running the ball. The balance of Run to Pass went from 25.4/35.0 or 43%, to 36.9/32.7 or 53%. We ran more than we threw. That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense when you have Allen. Since we like to compare ourselves to KC, KC ran just under 40% of the time. Mahomes had 635 attempts to Allen's 579, and Mahomes had worse receivers generally speaking. It worked OK in the early going, as things often do with changes, but as teams caught on and adjusted, as they always do, not so much. The last three games were all nail-biters and our rushing production from our RBs plummeted as Brady's tenure proceeded.

Well OK, progress here. You're right, he could have. But he didn't. In short you're saying that he chose Brady over straw man options, nothing more. So no real options. I'm sure that there are some good up-and-coming options that are better than an OC that led his team to improved if not optimal offensive performance as well. And while you say that we don't know of McD contacted or interviewed any of them, it's a fair guess that he did not. To start, we probably would have heard if he hadn't automatically planned on retaining Brady in the role, particularly given that he was riding that 6-1 narrative. I don't believe that we were ever even teased with such a notion by him, his staff, or insiders, as typically comes out when something like that occurs. Here's the thing, one of the biggest gaps in realization on McD is that he's a control-freak. Naturally that will never be believed by McD apologists, why would they believe that, it's a negative trait in this capacity and one that holds a team back. We are a team, right, not a one-man show in coaching or performance, right? But that's understandable that McD supporters wouldn't think that. At the same time, it explains McD's coaching hires and decisions, ... fully. I've explained this many times. With his cherished defense being what has failed us in the playoffs generally speaking, without a single one of his defensive players stepping up with even the remotest of consistency in the playoffs, it fully stands to reason that if he hired a ringer OC and the offense improved and was optimized under Allen, that that OC would be in contention for McD's job. That simply stands to reason. People can disagree, dislike, and argue to the contrary, but that's how things work. And I'll pose the question once again; If Allen predated McD and our coach were fired, would McD have even made the shortlist for contention for the job much less gotten it? I see that as being an all but zero percent chance. So why would he hire someone to shine in terms of running the offense, and with anticipated issues in team building and this idiotically ill-fitted complimentary football with Allen as our QB, when he can hire people that he can keep his thumb on? What would be preventing him from doing that? So instead, we get yet another OC with poor performance results prior to coming here, including getting fired in-season towards the end of his second season in Carolina where he posted near bottom-dwelling offensive rankings, but that has a connection with McD via both Carolina and William & Mary and probably a significant life perspective as well. Why on earth is Brady going to rock the boat and insist on doing anything his way if directed otherwise? Do you really see that happening? We already know that McD knows little if anything about offense, so why on earth would anyone want him to mettle into what the offense does? And we know that he and Daboll, his strongest willed OC had issues despite those details not having come out. So when you say that he had options, he did, but he chose not to pursue any real options, and for sure nothing that everyone around the league would applaud other than via narrative. We all hope that. We all want a championship. This season would be fine with me in that regard, then we can relax and start working on #2 under Allen. BUT, think about what we're hoping for here. We're hoping that an OC very light on experience and one with bottom level performance and that was fired after not even 30 games, plus a few interim here with offensive performance trending downward on his watch, is the answer on a team whose offensive philosophy isn't built around the big-arm and creativity of our trending all-time NFL best QB, no, it's built around complimentary football and now a shorter high-percentage passing game, and that built around secondary receivers none of which have ever cemented themselves as much beyond JAG WRs. Allen posted three of his worst 18 career ratings last season under Brady, out of 7 games. That's more than any other season combined and only 6 of the others came under Dorsey (one) or in years since his early '18 and '19 pre-Diggs years. His completion % under Brady was his worst since his inaugural seasons after which many were calling for moving on from him if you'll recall, and only marginally higher than it was back then when everyone was complaining. That's been hidden because the year end aggregate number was reasonable because under Dorsey it was much higher. In the playoffs Allen posted his fewest yards thrown in all of our playoff games under McD, bottom 2, with our KC game having been the worst, Pitt second worst. Does this make any sense to you whatsoever given Allen's strengths? ... particularly coupled with him running so much? He had his greatest number of rushing attempts this past season in the playoffs in the KC game, and more rushing attempts per game than any other postseason. Brady had Allen running the ball at a record pace of 153 carries per season, which is 23% more than in the season with his greatest number of carries, yet, with nearly 100 fewer yards than in his two greatest rushing yard seasons otherwise. Brady also had Allen's passing YPG significantly less than in any of the past four seasons otherwise. Absolutely none of this makes much sense given who Allen is, ... unless, they have no answer on how to get better passing out of Allen. For anyone to suggest that our team is best of with Allen throwing as little as possible in his career, ... LOL, honestly, BTW, I'm not necessarily linking you with any of these viewpoints, I'm merely pointing it all out. But to bring this full circle, sure, we all hope that Brady's the answer, that McD really isn't driving what our offense does, and that Brady and he will bring home the hardware, but McD's had going into 9 seasons now to have his judgement right and this is as far off as it's ever been. The question is why. Some know the answer to that, others may never understand. How many seasons do we have to wait and see whether McD's got it right for OC finally? I for one have seen enough and while there's some percentage chance that Brady pulls it off, but it's gotta be very low. Hope and expectations based upon available data and information are two different things. We hope every season, even during the drought years.

LOL Fair. Friendly then. 🙂

But that's the narrative, and that's fair because you answered he question. In short, you disagree with that part of the narrative. This one is a little different. You originally said that he (McD) chose him (Brady) over other options. That's what was being challenged. I don't see those options. The circumstantial evidence points to McD taking heat for a failing season; firing Dorsey (his next scapegoat at the time); hiring the only one that made sense and was logical otherwise; never gave it a second thought that Brady wouldn't continue in the role after his miraculous 6-1 finish. Is there a shred of evidence that any other candidate was considered? If so, whom, because that would also fit into the discussion. Pegula's biggest worry is selling tickets. He cares more about that than he does winning a championship, which is second concern to all owners. There's no evidence that Pegula has worked his way into the picture yet. IMO this season is huge. We're a season out from McD's tenth season and from Allen turning 30 and have advanced past the D-round once during that tenure, only to have lost due to coaching blunders the following week, that you reference. McD's got a lot going on this season and has his work cut out for him. It's a lot to ask, but it's the situation he's crafted for himself and obviously wants.