Yoho

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you don't care. My fault.

Since you seem to be in full attack mode tonight, how about some sources on that.

I would be happy to explain. I grew up with the Bills. My dad was an usher with the Bills in the All-America Football Conference and when they merged with the NFL in the early 50's and did not take the Bills he never forgave the NFL. When I was 8 years old, the AFL started and my Dad and I watched every game instead of the Evil Cleveland Browns on CBS. I lived through Jack Kemp and two AFL championships, Preston Ridelhuber and Dan Darragh and some horrible teams, the excitement of OJ, the awful decline iin the 70's, the Chuck Knox revival, the Hank Bullogh disaster (these were teams that before opening day would pick up players off the waiver wire and then START them on opening day). I finally got to enjoy the Marv Levy era, went to 2 super bowls and had the satisfaction of the Bill being among the elite. Now, in the salary cap era, I see a team that has an awful lot of talent but seems to be a couple of players away from success. I am not ready to throw it all in, boycott games and start rebuilding from scratch because some front running fans are frustrated by the lack of success. I am not claiming to be a bigger fan than you but am trying to explain why some Bills fans are more patient and less ready to ride people out of town after a couple of frustrating seasons. Unless I see that there is no committment to excellence from the Bills organization, I will remain a loyal fan. OK, I will admit, even when there was no committment I remained loyal. As I said, it is religion.

Ice, when did you become a Bills fan? Just a wild guess, that it may have been during their front runner days?

Atkins may not be the healthiest diet in the world but let's not perpetuate the urban legend that he died fat. He slipped on ice and fell into a coma for a protracted period of time. In the coma, his body bloated (from what I understand, not unusual). When he passed away, his bloated body weighed well above what he weighed before the accident. Let's be factual.

We need instant gratification. The problem with the Bils success in the late 80's, early 90's is that it created front running fans. If you were a Bills fans before that it was because the Bills were a religion to you. Like family, thick or thin. We then got the fans that were only satisfied if we were Super Bowl contenders year in and year out. The fact that no such thing exisited was beside the point. If in 3 years we are not contending, fire the bunch, lynch ralph wilson and start all over again. Been there, done that. Over and over and over again since 1960. I love my Bills, always will, especially while Ralph owns them. We are all frustrated but I am tired of all you front runners ready to throw the Bills overboard unless they start winning BIG again. We are not that far away from success. But it may take another year or two. In the meantime, if this is too frustrating for you go root for the Patties in the meantime and come back home when we are back in the hunt. Just dont expect me to respect you for it.

Let me explain a reallllly bad trade. The Bills traded their young 2nd string quarterback who every time he got a chance was very successful (Lamonica) and a good veteran possession split end (that is what they were called at the time- Bill Miller) for a veteran over-the-hill quarterback (Flores) and a head case split end (Art Powell). For the next few years, while Flores and Powell were already gone from the Bills, Lamonica and Miller were connecting for touchdowns in the early Super Bowls. If you think Ice is off the wall with his "assclown" remarks, just picture that horror show. So before you go calling the Bledsoe trade the worst in history, please understand it is not even close. He actually contributed a few games and we did not give up a Super Bowl quarterback in return. I understand some of you are young, but the Bills history did not begin in 1986, so if you are going to make claims like this there are some of us who remember the really bad old rotten days. Donohue is Albert Einstein compare to Stew Barber and Harvey Johnson.

There are so many mixed feelings at this point. Disappointment at a 3-5 record. Excitement at winning 3 of our last 4. Little confidence in our offense being able to consistently put points on the board. A growing sense of confidence watching McGahee and Evans. So where are we? In general, I look at the roster and am pleased. So count me out of the Donohoe must go club. I am disappointed that he seems more enamored with skill position players than the line hogs that generally spell success. But, I look at the o-line and think that we may only be one player away from being a pretty good unit. We are on the verge of being able to put out a starting 11 on defense that matches anything we have seen since 1965 but they may still lack serious playmakers that can change games. And then there is Bledsoe. He seems to be one of those guys that in the right situation he can be very good but in the wrong situation he can be very bad. He obviously can not carry a team on his back. I hope Losman can step it up quickly but know that 50% of all first round QB's do not pan out. So, I am jealous of all you fans who seem confident in who needs to be fired, benched, promoted and cut. I am not so sure but I have a lot of hope and as a long time Bills fan know there was a long era before Jim Kelly and the gang when such hope rarely existed. Go Bills.

Thank you for making my point. Now, if I post once more I have to be banned!!!!

I have a simple suggestion. Ban anyone who has posted on this thread more than 2 times. I don't care what they said. The board will be a better place.

I guess the best thing about being a second-guessing fan is that you can always be right. If Carter had marched them down the field while we played a prevent, the screaming and gnashing would be heard from Fredonia to Cheektowaga. "How could Mularkey not blitz? This was the same way we lost the first game to the Jets. We had been attacking all half and they had minus yards. Why start playing safe? We are playing not to lose instead of trying to win? " Or how about in the first half if we tried one more play without a time out and Bledsoe slipped and time ran out without putting points on the board "How can that idiot Mularkey try one more play without a time out? We needed to tie that game up at half time. You have to take the field goal. Once we wasted our time outs we had to play for the tie. What a fuggin moron." Sound familiar

After attending the last two games where the winds have been absolutely howling, there is no way any passing game can be judged in those conditions. This is not to defend Bledsoe, but I remember very few games that Kelly played in that approached those conditions. And, that was with an offensive line that you had a chance to run a power running game all day. Yesterday's game was more like a chess match in those conditions because no one could sustain an offense with the passing game almost impossible. For those commenting on the game from the comfort of their family room, you just don't realize how miserable it was there. I also don't blame any fans for leaving when the game was put away in the 4th. It just got plain wet after a while.

I hate to use this as an example, but the Cowboys were 1 - 15, I believe in Jimmy Johnson's first year. Somehow they grew up. Heart and killer instinct comes with confidence. I just don't believe that this group does not want to win badly. You can see it by the way they never quit. What goes around, comes around. My frustration level is a 12 on the scale of 10 but I am going to advocate to give this thing a little longer and not advocate knee-jerk reactions as I have seen proposed here.

It is so easy to say let's tear it apart and start from the beginning again. For every Marv Levy and Chuck Knox there is a Johnny Rauch, Kay Stephenson, Hank Bullock and Greg Williams. I think there are some more recent Bills fans (from the Super Bowl years) that were more front runners than true fans of the Bills and will not follow a team that has a down period. We are down now, but not out and not that far away. When we start getting blown out on a weekly basis I will advocate a house cleaning. Until then, I am still hoping that we turn the corner soon. Go look up at how Jimmy Johnson and Chcuk Noll started their coaching careers. As Marv Levy might say, if you don't learn from history you are bound to repeat it.

How can you think we are not close when if Clemens knocks down the pass we are 1-0. if Henry gets the TD call maybe 2-0. If Fletcher does not fumble at the 3, maybe 3-0. If we can hold Pennington and Brien's kick drifts in the wind, maybe 4-0. I know, I know, good teams win, bad teams lose..... BUT, I have witnessed Bills teams that got their butt kicked week after week with talent borrowed from the waiver wire. This team is so painfully close. That is what makes this year worse than any other I can remember but what also gives me hope.

As a 50 something year old Bills fan, I have been there from the beginning. I have seen some terrible teams. This team is the most frustrating team I ever remember but not because there is no talent but just the opposite that we are 0 - 4 with the talent we have. One play here, one play there, we are 2-2, 3-1, even 4-0. It would be crazy to dismantle this team, its management and start all over again. There may be a couple of moves that are necessary (and unfortunately Bledsoe may be one of them) but this is not your '68 Bills. You 30 and under Bills fans don't have a clue as to bad. I share your frustration and it is easy to try to point your finger at the villan of your choice (Donohoe, Bledsoe, Wilson, McNally) but we are so stinking close. I have been through too many rebuilding programs and I am not ready to go there again when we are so close. Hang in there. Don't be a total pessimist and give it up. Go Bills.

You know I have never seen you post a positive thought. If I see your name I know there is going to be moaning involved. Is your whole life like this or just your relationship with the Bills?

How DARE you be optimistic!!!! The voices of truth have spoken and they know the future and they have deemed it miserable. I think some of them will be disappointed if the Bills win.

My vote is for Tom Donohoe. He has done a good job of assembling talent. He has a good coaching staff and we have been competitive in every game and may be ready to turn things around. All of you who are ready to panic, throw out everything we have built and start over again must not have been around from 1967 to 1984 where we did that over and over and over again to no success. Most of you have a Danny Snyder attitude. The fact that most of you are ready to throw it all away without any consideration of reasonable alternatives says it all. Man, I hope the Bills turn it around so you fair weather supporters can eat your words.

Occassionally a team will put together a young pitching staff and have the right mix of vets to make a run but then the next year they will lose a Pudge Rodriguez and make their way back to the middle of the pack. Oakland will be shot in a couple of years when Mulder, Hudson et al go to the big money teams. Minnesota has a shot because no one spends money in the Central, but EVERY YEAR the Yankees make the playoffs. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose but they are always there. If Clemens and Pettite leave bring in Vazquez and Brown. If they have bad years, go get Loaiza. If he doesn't work out who cares the starting lineup is an All-star team. So, now Boston follows suit and increases their payroll with Curt Schilling. And on and on it goes. Try being a Pittsburgh Pirate fan or a Milwaukee Brewer fan or a kansas City Royals fan. The absolutely best you can hope for is that your farm system delivers some miracle and before the young phenoms flee for big money you put together a season or two. Attendance is up because a lot of municipalites squandered a lot of money on spanking new ball parks. The novelty will wear off soon and then when the team loses year after year after year and all your best players are wearing pinstripes or red sox, it will go back down again. So enjoy you followers of big money teams. Enjoy your superiority but remember as Bills fans, thank God for the salary cap in the NFL.

I am very curious why my analysis and opinions about the evils of big money teams would lead you to the conclusion that I am in my teens??? My point is that small market teams (like the Buffalo Bills) would be uncompetitive with the New York's and Boston's of the world if it were not for the football salary cap. Rooting for the Yanks or Red Sox with the unequal payrolls in baseball is rooting for General Motors, Walmart and McDonalds. I would think a true Bills fans heart would be a little more blue collar and understand that big and rich wiping out smaller and poorer is not something to root for. Of course, you have the right to be a Yankee fan and "to each his (or her) own". You were probably raised that way and can't help yourself.

Enjoy the playoffs. I hope the umpteen million dollar payroll Yankees and the umpteen million dollar minus ten Red Sox both get rolled by small market teams whose entire payroll is probably less than the Yankees infield or the Red Sox pitching staff. I hope you all get joy when McDonald's wipes out Fred's and Roy's Hamburger Joint. It is neither a surprise or much of a contest. No one was a bigger baseball fan than I was, but unless you want to root for Walmart there is no joy in the game. I don't understand how anyone that is a Bills fan does not get how bad the system that allows the Yankees and Red Sox to buy playoff spots is for sports, especially small market teams.

Let's see - there are hundreds of posts that have proclaimed the season a lost cause, Donohue an idiot, our past drafts a disaster including Lee Evans, Bledsoe, of course, a statue, the new coaching staff as incompetent as our old coaching staff and a general conspiracy against the Bills and Buffalo. Besides that, nothing new.

I would not be that surprised. Remember this is the NFL, the league of parity. Anybody who thinks any particular game is a lock must never have participated in a Survivor Pool. The talent differential between the Pats and the Bills is not nearly as dramatic as talent level differentials before the salary cap - for example the 91 Bills and the 91 Raiders (and that was in the championship game). Our first two games were outstanding examples of how a break here, a call there and we would have won 2 instead of losing 2. I bet you could make a case that the Pats could have lost about half the games in their current streak with a small break here or there. As far as the "fans" who have already written the obituary for the '04 Bills. My guess is they are the samd fans who had turned off the television at halftime of the Oilers playoff game.

95% of the people on this board would have been in the hospital after the first time they got hit. It is funny - you went to the game and saw wide open receivers. Another poster went to the game and claimed that the wr's could not get any separation. I remain worried about Drew but let me remind you of the age old adage - when things are going good the quarterback gets too much credit when things are going bad the quarterback gets too much blame.