CosmicBills

Now, please tell us all, without referencing his stats in college, what you think makes Tebow a sure fire hit as an NFL QB? What specific things can you point to other than stats and accomplishments from college? Is it that he looks dreamy without his shirt on? It is, isn't it? It's okay, you're amongst friends here.

Good post. I would imagine the Bills wouldn't entertain the notion of a trade unless they agreed on an extension before hand. At least not at the expense of a 2nd round pick.

And ... what's your point? Just because everyone in the NFL played football somewhere before has nothing to do with it. Think about it, everyone who played in the NFL also learned to use a toilet. Some probably faster than others. That doesn't mean that there's some relevance to their performance in the NFL. It's just something they all did. The college game is a different game. It has different rules, different players, different coaches. There are 18 year olds in college who haven't grown into their bodies. What you're suggesting would be like someone telling you that a dental surgeon who is the top of his field by every measurable imaginable would automatically become a top heart surgeon. It's apples and oranges. You can't compare the two no matter how hard you try. If it were that simple, Tebow would have gone number 1 in the draft and there would be no need for teams to spend literally millions of dollars a year on scouting players. Instead they'd spend 50 cents and buy a paper each week and look at the box scores. But it doesn't work that way. It never has and never will. Absolutely no one is arguing that Tebow was not a great college QB. If they are, they're insane. He was perfect for what the Gators needed. He had the most innovative coach in the game as well as the benefit of playing for a sheer powerhouse in terms of the talent that surrounded him. But it was Tebow who made that team work. I would argue that if you put Tebow on any other team in the country, his numbers aren't nearly what they were in Florida. Urban made Tebow what he was. And he designed his offense and tailored it to his strengths as a good coach should do. On another team, Tebow would be good -- or he would have been converted into a FB/TE/WR Hybrid. But again, "greatest QB of all time STATISTICALLY speaking" means absolutely nothing in terms of whether he will be a good NFL QB. Why? Because it's impossible to compare the college game to the pro game. It's that simple. The real proof will be over the rest of the season. I'm glad Denver is starting him. They should find out what he can do. I know I'll watch to see how it all unfolds. If he does great, good for him. He deserves it. If he fails, tough luck. Happens to a lot of college greats. I just choose not to validate my existence by the success of a QB for a team I'm not even a fan of. Some people do though, and that's what makes life interesting. Or at least hilarious.

First, thank you. Second, you're making a jump in logic within your own argument. Moneyball examined stats from within MLB. The numbers translate because they're statistics from the same game. The SEC and the NFL are NOT the same league and not even the same GAME. Everything about the college game is different -- from the talent level to the very RULES of the game. Yet you're still contending that these stats from the SEC (which has different rules and talent levels than the NFL) translate to the NFL. How can statistics from one game that has different rules ever be considered a way to accurately predict someone's success in an entirely different game? You'd be better off paying a psychic 10 bucks to guess. Now go back to wearing your tinfoil hat and screaming at the grass for growing too loudly. I'm really not though. I have nothing against the guy. I didn't want him on the Bills because I don't think he's going to be a good NFL QB. But that's just my opinion. Now that he's not on the Bills roster I really don't care if he proves me wrong or proves me right. I haven't even taken a stance in this thread other than saying college statistics are meaningless when trying to determine a player's future in the NFL. Because really, at this point, it doesn't matter. The dude plays for Denver, he's just been named starting QB. What will happen will happen. He'll either flame out or deliver. I just find the passionate support of a guy who has yet to prove anything in the NFL -- other than being unable to take a snap from center or get a starting job without a grass roots fan campaign forcing a new coach's hand -- amusing.

You also believe stats are all you need to look at when evaluating a player. We've already determined you're a black hole of intelligence, but you're fun. So I like keeping you around. Funny thing is, I'm not even anti-Tebow and you're all ranting and raving like I kicked your sister. Or Justin Beiber.

No, but the move to go out and get Curry (at possibly a fairly high price -- I haven't seen what picks they gave up yet) at this point in the season shows what they think of their chances. They're not playing for next year.

Always happy to help! Congrats, I missed that bit of news that you have a baby!!! Cheers!

Should probably add that trailer is NSFW (but has lots of nipples so it's worth watching)

Always a page turner.

No one has any problem with someone wanting Tebow to succeed. The problem comes when rational fans want to discuss their opinions on Tebow (pros and cons) and the Tebow Cult comes barreling out of the bushes shouting down anyone who offers any opinion other than "Tebow is God". They're out there. Just look at some of the posts in this thread (two posters in particular NOT named DrDareustein). The truth is, no one knows for sure whether or not he's going to live up to the ridiculous hype. But we'll soon find out. Okay, KD said it better than I did.

You weren't alone.

The Raiders are going to win the AFC West.

I don't get it either. I don't really care one way or the other if Tebow becomes a good NFL QB. He seems like a nice guy, so that's swell I guess. And the controversy around him (inspired by his very own supporters moreso than his detractors) makes him somewhat compelling to watch. But from everything I can see, he just doesn't have the tools to succeed in the NFL at that position. I could be wrong, and frankly, I don't really care since Tebow isn't wearing a Bills uniform. But his fans seem to take everything so personal. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me is that its somehow tied into the whole religious angle. Like somehow if you state your opinion that Tebow isn't a very good NFL QB that translates to not liking him because he's a evangelical. That's just nonsense. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But the people who are his most outspoken fans claim there's a conspiracy against the guy. Why? Because he's white and likes Jesus? Guess what? There are millions of white guys who like Jesus -- not all of them can throw a football. That doesn't mean there's some sort of anti-christian conspiracy in the NFL keeping these guys down. If anything, the NFL is one of the most christian leagues in the history of American sports. Every game ends with a group of players kneeling in prayer. But yeah, the NFL is keeping Tebow down because he supports JC.

Yes. In college, even in the vaunted SEC, you're facing off (at BEST) against maybe 4 or 5 all americans a game. Most of the time you're facing guys who aren't close to the same class. On Sundays, you're facing 11 All Americans each and every PLAY. Even the scrubs on an NFL roster are better than most starters you'd face on a college field. There is simply no comparison between college stats and a player's success in the NFL. None.

Anti-Tebow conspiracy?! HA! :lol: :lol: You wear a tin foil hat to bed, don't you?

Good find!!! Thanks!!

Here's the thing, and I say this with the greatest sincerity, you're not a player or a coach. None of us are. The reality is, whether or not we get too up or too down has absolutely zero impact on whether or not the Buffalo Bills win on Sunday. Now, I know you know this because I consider you to be a smart poster who actually knows the game. So I don't say that with any semblance of disrespect. Now, we could sit here and debate your points -- of which you raise several good ones. I could counter with my belief that measuring the effectiveness of a defense based on yards is caveman football. The NFL ranking should be by points, not yards. The game has gotten too easy to score and it's unfair to hold current defenses (across the league, not just here) to past statistical standards because the NFL has never, ever been as much of a passing and scoring league as it's become almost overnight. It's not that defenses haven't caught up to the spread as it is that the rules have changed to make it almost impossible to consistently stop the passing game. Of course you could rightfully counter that the Bills give up a lot of points as well as yards which would bring you back to your original point. But that brings me to my question. And again, I am curious about the answer to this because I honestly do not understand the mentality and I have very much been a "realist" in the past few seasons. So here it is: Why bother to bring this up now? If you're right (you may well be; the honest truth is we're all just guessing here) and the Bills do crash back to earth at some point this season or next, then shouldn't you just enjoy the good parts of the ride while they're here? After all, you yourself are saying that we're going to be back in the cellar at some point in the very near future. So what does this post accomplish? Is it just the need to say you were right later on if it happens? Or is it something else? The Bills fate in the 2011 season is not going to change if you post this. It wouldn't change if you didn't post it either. Again, I'm not saying you should just blindly believe in sunshine and rainbows -- if you think it's a mirage you have every right to express your opinion. And you could be right. But you could also be wrong. So what do you gain from making this post now? If you're right, you get some satisfaction from being the smartest guy in the room ... who roots for a team that never wins. Plus you miss out on actually enjoying the brief flickers of success your chosen team actually earns -- even if it is by hook or by crook. Again, it's not that you're not allowed to discuss your opinions on these matters. And this is certainly the place to do so. It's just the timing of it I question. What's the rush to be out in front of a curve that you're smart enough to know you can't predict? What's the point of being a fan if you forget to enjoy the successes?

I really wish there was video of this ...

For me it's not really that the effects are horrible, it's more that they don't look good enough to be highlighted so often. By that I mean, rather than spend so much time and energy creating sprawling cgi vistas and backgrounds or populating a scene with 100 dinos, why not spend those resources on one or two kick ass dinos an episode. This is a show about pioneers who are on their own cut off from the world. You don't need three big dinos to make a threat, you can do more with one kick ass one. And that carries over to the characters themselves. Spend more time building the characters and then putting them in jeopardy rather than simply rushing into action set piece after action set piece just because you need a big act out. Character CAN be just as effective of an act out as a huge set piece. But that's me.

Excellent points as well. It's funny because I'm going through the development process currently with two different projects and the one thing I'm learning is its different every time. I point that out only to make it clear that I'm guessing entirely on what sort of development process this show went through. But it's playing like they're afraid of their own concept. It's like they're afraid that if they don't wrap everything up neatly RIGHT away, that the audience will poke holes in it, criticize it, or tune out. They're showing absolutely no faith in the audience's intelligence or patience. Everyone's so afraid of making a bomb they forget that taking risks is part of creativity.

Yeah I agree. It was a real sin to solve the rock writing so quickly ... but that seems to be what this show is: in a rush. Take the interesting new character they introduced tonight. I liked the fact that the science officer recommended her for the post knowing that O'Mara was locked up. I hated the fact that, not only did they give that to us right away, but O'Mara confronts this guy with that information less than two scenes later! That's the kind of thing that could really give the characters dimensions and make us care about them. Give them secrets. Build the relationships and string the dynamite along the way -- but give it a slow fuse. Which brings me to what I think is the root of the problem. LOST never made any illusions that it was a character drama with sci-fi elements. It was not a sci-fi show with character elements. Terra Nova seems to be the later. Which instantly makes it cheesy no matter what the intentions of the creators was. They are putting all their cards on spectacle -- which is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain when that spectacle is expensive CGI that still looks crappy. They need to reduce the scope of the show. Stop with all the huge sprawling shots of the CGI vistas (that look crappy) and instead focus on the people trying to restart civilization. Tonight's episode could have been awesome ... if it happened episode 10 of Season 2. The show should be Deadwood in the past. But instead they're trying to be Avatar Light.

I'll have my people be in touch with your people (sphere 'o beer still your point man?). I think this is gold right here. I'm getting everyone on the phone and let's make a deal! To quote the great philosopher of our time: "Alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems!"

I have mixed feelings after (finally) catching the 2 hour pilot. Truth be told, I very much want to see Terra Nova succeed. But that's from a purely selfish perspective. That aside, the show itself left me cringing more than it left me wanting more. For a pilot with a budget as big as Terra Nova (upwards of $20 million not counting reshoots I've heard), it's a crime that the effects were cartoonish. The future scenes were a mess CGI wise, and for all the talk that the dinos were going to look as good as Jurassic Park I thought they looked pretty shoddy. I have nothing but respect for Alex Graves who directed it, but man ... just because you have the budget to do an effect doesn't mean you HAVE to do one. That seemed to be the biggest bump I had throughout the pilot. Story wise I am a huge fan of several of the writers on staff, so I am confident that the storytelling will be top notch as the show gets its legs (IF it's allowed to). And I actually dug the story in the pilot -- even if some of the beats were a bit overdone. They just seemed to be in a big rush. With everything. And that, I fear, is more the result of network notes more than anything. I recorded Episode 2 last night, will probably get to it tonight after work but damn. I really wanted to dig this show. Right now I'm kind of "meh" about it.

I'm very sensitive!

This is all great stuff ... without boring you all with the details of this, I have a few more hypothetical questions. Though, I'm nervous having had this topic moved to the shark infested waters of the PPP board. Lord knows I try to stay away from this section of TSW. Mainly because I'm a pansy. Despite all that, I greatly appreciate your help and insight! 1. In your opinion what qualities make for a good Ambassador? What qualities make for a poor Ambassador? (I know this is vague). Examples of real life ambassadors in either category would be lovely as well so I can do more digging. 2. If a new nation were suddenly to be discovered (hypothetical), let's say the Lost City of Atlantis suddenly emerged from the ocean floor in the middle of the Atlantic or something crazy like that. They're advanced enough to be considered an instant super power so the world has to take them seriously. What would the protocol/vetting process be for them to join the United Nations? 2a. How could this process go horribly, horribly wrong?