CosmicBills

Well it looks like the league agrees with the other people. Artest and Jackson are suspended indefinetly as is Wallce. Good riddence. Now let's hope the police arrest the culprits in the stands.

Good, and you already know their names: Wallace Artest Jackson Now let's hope they arrest the fans.

War is sweet to those who have never expierenced it. Greek Proverb

And again I want to make it clear I am not trying to excuse the fans. They were awful and disgraceful. Especially the ones who charged the floor to carry on the brawl, that is sheer stupidity. But you cannot give a pass to the players in this case (any player, even Wallace). Everyone over reacted and things got out of control. But if you step back and look at it you see THREE points where this incident could have been stopped: 1) Wallace SHOULDN'T HAVE pushed Artest for the hard foul. If he doesn't do that, there is no fight and the game ends. 2) The fan SHOULDN'T HAVE thrown the cup at Artest. That is just terrible. If he doesn't do that, Arests doesn't come into the stands and the game ends once the refs stop the fight. 3) Arests SHOULDN'T HAVE rushed into the stands. That was just dumb and reactionary. If Artest doesn't rush the stands, the guy who threw the cup would have been dealt with by security and no brawl would have ensued. You cannot give a pass to ANYONE of these people in this incident. And any attempt to do so is either a case of being blinded by your team's colors or sheer stupidity. Take your pick.

It wasn't Artest's job or responsibility to teach him the hard way. It was the security personel's job. He should have let them handle it. So you are telling me that if you were in a bar with 100 cops and someone throws a beer on you from across the room you STILL charge across the room to "educate" the lad?

That's the whole crux of the argument that BF and others are failing to see. They want to compair it to a real life situation on the street. Fine, let's do that. In real life if you are confronted on the street (or in a bar or in an alley whatever) when you are alone and someone assults you, you have every right to defend yourself...anyone would. But if you are in the same situation with 100 cops around you and one guy ACROSS the room throws a beer at you, you still have the RIGHT to go and pound him (even though you will be going to jail for it as would he), but most sane people would let the cops they are there with handle it. Artest was at the stadium with over 100 security personel around. He could have done the smart thing which was to let the cops do their jobs, he didn't HAVE to go into the stands. It wasn't as if the fan was on the court right in his grill. Thus, the "on the street" comparision is very, very weak.

Don't worry about BF, he has made it clear the type of person he is. He has the 'homer' blinders on big time and wishes to revel in an event that has tarnished all sports, not just the NBA. Even if you agree with BF's stance that Artest was in the right, what happened with the fans and the players was reprehnsible and will have a negative impact on ALL sports. As for SoCal, he just wanted to prove to everyone how smart and tough he is. Fine by me.

As I said to BF, spoken like a man who has never been in a fight before. If you think it's fun, cool, and the 'tough thing to do' then you haven't been in one to know how brutal and scary they really are. That's right. The last thing we want is different opinions to be discussed in open forums such as these. I love hearing different opinions, it makes it much easier to identify the morons

I never said he didn't have a right to defend himself. But there is a difference between defending yourself and protecting yourself. Artest did neither. He created more danger for himself and everyone else. From my previous post: Certainly the fan who threw the plastic cup was disgraceful and should be blamed. But Artest was safe behind TWO rows of media seats and another THREE rows of empty fan seats. There was no "immediate" threat to his safety or to anyone else. He CREATED an immediate threat by charging over five rows of stands to confront the guy. And Jackson joined him, totally irresponsible. The NBA should certainly suspend both Jackson and Artest for AT LEAST 10 games. It drove me nuts to hear all the ESPN guys saying how "Artest HAD to defend himself". stevestojan! Artest could have just yelled at the guy from the safty of the court. The EPSN crew is trying to spin it like Artest was in danger...WRONG he created danger by charging into the stands where he was outnumbered! "Well they threw a cup at him! He HAD to react!" continue the NBA analysts. Come on. How many players in SanFransico have charged into the stands when the fans throw batteries at them? Or how many Dolphin players have charged into the stands when the 12th Man pelts them with snowballs? Answer? NONE! Why? Because they aren't dumb. I am not excusing any fan who throws anything onto the field of play or at anyone, just trying to show that it is (sadly) a common practice and Arest totally over reacted. And it drove me crazy to listen to the idiot announcers trying to spin it like Artest was a choir boy (do we really have to pull out his record?) Now that my rant is over I want to make it clear that I do not condone the fans. Not at all. Especially what happened AFTER Artest went into the stands. THe cheap shots, the chairs being thrown, fans coming onto the court was all horrible and terribly wrong on their parts. The fans are certainly to blame and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However, NONE of this would have happened had Artest stayed on the court.

Before you blow your lid, try reading my posts first. Never once did I excuse the fans.

Agreed! It's nice to see that it actually is possible to have a discussion on this board without escalating into a flame war Of course, it could be because it's a topic that only a couple of us care about:) lol You all make very good points I think we are both want the same thing we just have different approaches to it. The movie was...okay. Not great. Kinda cool, but kind of a rip off of the DaVinci Code. I'm not a huge Nick Cage fan but he was pretty good in it.

Spoken like a man who has never been in a fight in his life. If you think fighting represents you then I feel truly sorry for you. That's like saying, "Yeah! He's a man because he fought back!". A real man would have realized the situation and used his head instead of his fist. If that's how you really feel, I can honestly say that I can never respect you again. I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just the truth.

If you want to keep using that logic then you have to agree that Artest should be just as liable as the fan that threw it at him since there was no physical harm or threat of it. His reaction was criminal...using your "on the street" logic. I expect to see you petition the Detroit PD to prosecute Ron.

I'm really trying to figure out how in the world you can be PROUD of this. Are you kidding me? I am ashamed to be a fan of ANY sport at the moment. What happened in Detroit tonight wasn't a victory for anyone.

It's all right here.

I am not saying the fans are right! But the chair never gets thrown if Artest doesnt go into the crowd! It's not complicated. And explain to me how charging over several rows of seats into a CROWD of people is not putting yourself into MORE DANGER? Please explain the logic of that.

If it was in Indiana and Ben Wallace was playing Artest's role you would be on my side. You are blinded.

How coudl you possible argue there was a danger of physical harm? Arest was safe behind TWO rows of media benches and THREE rows of empty stands. Artest put HIMSELF into physical danger by climbing over those safety barries to confront the guy. You're wrong.

No it's not. If that happened on the street and you punched someone for throwing a beer on you, you are BOTH guilty of assult. It's not as if Artest was in physical danger from liquid or the cup. But see, you are dodging the issue because you know where I am going. Artest SHOULD be treated differently because he is different. He is a multi-million dollar athlete who is being paid to play ball. If a fan throws a cup at you, you get mad, you yell, you B word, you cry, you do anything BUT go into the stands. You get security and allow them to do their job. What Artest did crossed a line (a line which the fan crossed to of course) and damaged the reputation of his employer (the NBA) and put a huge black eye on all of sports. None of this happens if the fan doesn't throw the cup, but Artest could have prevented it from escalating into total chaos if he was more of a man. It would be different if the fan came onto the court...but he didn't. What Artest did was flat out wrong. What the fand did was wrong. No one was innocent. And you taking glee from it is shameful, it's a sad day for sports, not just the NBA.

Anything BF??? Bueller? Bueller?

Fine, then if you want to hold Artest to the same standard then he should be prosecuted for assult just like the fan. Don't you agree?

Yeah, and if I did that I would wind up in jail. You can't make that compairison. The idiot on ESPN News said the same thing and he is flat out wrong. Arest was in NO DANGER. A Beer was thrown at him and he over reacted. He put himself in increadible danger by going into the stands. Were the fans right to throw beer? No absolutely not. Were they right to punch Artest? No! Was Artest right to go into the stands? No! Everyone is wrong. It is a sad, sad day. And if you are excited to see that than you have never been in a fight or witnessed violence first hand and know how scary and brutal it really is.

I feel sorry for you if you really believe that.

Amen