CosmicBills

Cool -- thanks so much, Promo!

Gracias! Same to you Simon for the help. I was as confused as you were this morning when I checked the schedule before work -- maybe because it's on Versus it's not on Center Ice? Though, I don't know what channel Versus is on Comcast here. I'll have to hunt for it. EDIT: Vs. here is showing the a different game ... no Center Ice schedule for the Sabres, though there is a mysterious "blank" channel which could pick it up at 8. If not, I guess I'm watching online.

I'm partial to Slaughterhouse-Five for sentimental reasons. However, my favorite KV moment, other than the story earlier in the thread, had to be his appearance in Back to School. He did it purely to meet Rodney, and in the scene he slams the door in Kurt's face -- something he noted with irony later on.

Quick question: Do any Bostonians know if the game is on TV tonight? I have the center ice package, but the schedule is blank. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

It did -- and the creators tried to open a theme park featuring the Mammouth. But on the first tour, a storm hit the island decending the tour into chaos. Word is there were survivors, but the government shut the park down.

The former UN Secretary General?

There is a story which has become lore in my family over the years. Not one family dinner, or reunion goes by where someone doesn't mention it. It's fitting for this thread, so forgive me as I recount it: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Back in the early 1940s, my grandfather and his college roommate were bored as hell. War was looming and both were not exactly the “college” types. They were both smart guys and found themselves in a high brow university. Yet neither of them particularly warmed to the collegiate life. Out of this boredom they formed a plan to simultaneously amuse themselves and prank the college itself. One afternoon the roommates walked into town and got their haircuts at one of the many local barbers. After the trim, they asked the barber if they could purchase his barber shop pole. This was back when all the barbers had those slow, spinning poles outside of their shops. The kind that look like some sort of twisted candy cane from Willy Wonka’s factory. The barber, naturally, was curious as to why the guys wanted to buy his pole. But the money they offered was simply too much for him to ignore. “We are going to need a receipt,” my grandfather said. The barber pocketed the money and happily obliged the request. “Thanks, we’ll be back later for the pole.” With that, they were gone. Around 2am the next night, the guys strolled back to the barber shop, determined to get their pole. It was cold that night so they wore dark coats, bundled up against the breeze off the lake. My grandfather held the ladder while his roommate climbed to the top and began to take apart the twisted, candy cane pole. It didn’t take long for things to go wrong. This was 1942, back when this small town had only a handful of cops and they actually walked the beat. The local constable was not too pleased to see two college ruffians desecrating a local shop. In a matter of moments, my grandfather and his buddy were arrested and hauled into lockup. They went quietly and politely – without their pole. The next morning, the two hooligans were hauled before the local judge. The officer who arrested them explained to the judge the charges without either of the two uttering a word of rebuttal. When the judge finally turned to the defendants and asked if they had anything to say, my grandfather’s buddy simply walked to up to the bench, withdrew a sheet of paper from his pocket and handed it to the judge. As the judge sat there, reading the handwritten receipt for one barber pole, the two pals stood in silence. It didn’t take long for the judge to throw out the charges and publicly berate the officer. Afterwards, two men walked out of the courtroom and back to their dorm. That night, they returned to town and proceeded to steal each and every barber shop pole in all of Ithaca. Almost every pole they took was in plain view of the beat cops. Not one, single officer put up any resistance out of fear of being made a fool. When the morning came, the police station was flooded with calls from panicked barbers who were reporting missing poles. Meanwhile, Cornell students who walked the main path that cold, winter morning were treated to a rare sight. Along the path, over a dozen, spinning, candy cane poles were stuck into the frozen snow banks. In the end, the police came to campus and seized the poles. They were returned to their shops no worse for the wear. It was a harmless prank. But it was masterful in its humor and ingenuity. My grandfather loved telling that story. I probably heard it over a hundred times. One of my last memories of him was sitting at the dinner table with him in the late ‘90s. He had been sick for awhile by then, though he was always upbeat and positive. At that particular dinner I had mentioned that I needed a haircut. He just smiled and said, “Have I ever told you about the time Kurt and I stole all those barber shop poles?” --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I first heard the news yesterday morning, I was struck with the sense of a great loss. Vonnegut inspired me not only with his words, but with his life. Just like my grandfather, he was a great man with uncompromising humor, wit and honor. I'll miss him greatly. But at least now he and my grandfather can figure out a new prank to pull in the great beyond. I'm not sure if they have barber shop poles up there or not, but if I am sure they will find a great substitute.

I found it really unnecessary when they showed that move Morris did on Jack. You know the one I mean. I just didn't know a man could bend like that. Ugh...

Okay, I'm awake now so a couple (long) thoughts on the episode (and your post) ... 1. The cancer: Healing -- emotional or physical (which is where Sloth gets his theory on the show)-- has always been a big part of this show -- Locke (broken back and broken leg), Rose (cancer), Jin (infertility ... maybe), Sayid (leg) etc. etc. So it wasn't all that surprising to learn the Others either have, or believe they have, a cure for cancer. But, also, it's entirely possible that they don't have a cure and it's all a ruse by Ben & Jacob (more on him later). With Juliette being cut off from her sister for 6 months, it's possible that the medical charts Ben showed her were false and the cancer never came back. It's also possible that Jacob did exactly what Ben said he would do. It's too early to tell. However, Ben's cancer/tumor did raise some flags. It's important to note that it was never said that Ben had cancer. In fact, in response to Ben's "You just told me I had cancer", Juilette said, "No, I said you had a tumor". It's very posisble that it was benign. We can't be sure. There are a couple 'out there theories' you could fly at this time (Juilette got him sick, Jacob got him sick, the Other-Others got him sick) or that his whole cure for cancer speech was a lie. Ben isn't above it. I'm not certain that he hid the sickness from the rest of the Others. While it's true they went to the other island for the procedure, there were plenty of people there -- plus he went back to recover in the village, and in plain sight of everyone, Jack (not on the list) was tending to him. So even if it was a secret at the beginning, it wasn't kept that way for long. Additionally, Juliette had been on the island for over 6 months before Ben told her they could "cure" cancer. So it wasn't common knowledge amungst the recruits. Perhaps it's something only a select few know ... meaning, the rest of the Others might not find it alarming that Ben got sick -- if he indeed truly had cancer. When Locke and Ben had their face to face, Ben talked a lot about his people over throwing him. "That would be the end of me", which makes you wonder how tenious his grip on power really is. Sickness is a sign of weakness, it could be exploited. Perhaps that was the plan all along. Perhaps he was "sick" as a part of a larger plan by Jacob to either test Ben or his people. At the end of the day, the cancer issues can't be resolved until we know more about ... 2. Jacob: It's been hinted at since Ben was first captured by the Lostaways in Season 2. Ben spoke of the leader being a great man. Back then, we assumed he meant Alvar Hanso (head of Dharma). Then, once it was revealed who Ben truly was, some assumed he was just pulling a Chad Johnson and speaking about himself in the third person. This season it was made clear by Mr. Happy (Bluebeard) that Ben is not the "leader". When Sawyer and Kate broke Alex's boyfriend out of "prison", he was being brainwashed and one of the clips said something (can't remember it exactly) like: "God loves you as he loved Jacob". At the time, it looked to be a biblical reference -- but last night Ben said, "Jacob is going to take care of it personally". This instantly got Juilette's attention. She was aware of who Jacob was, and her response signified that he was someone with great power -- someone she didn't doubt could cure cancer. Makes you wonder who he is and what his story is. If he's truly that powerful, he's going to be a guy we're going to want to meet. 3. Babies: There are a couple interesting nuggets about this. First, it's been a running theory since the second season that the Others are infertal, hence the taking of the babies/kids. From Roussou's kid, to the Tailies, to Claire's baby. A big theory of mine from this season revolved around Kate and Sawyer's hookup. The Others kept them in cages like animals and, I argue, wanted them to literally mate. They wanted to get Kate pregnant. She might very well be, too early to tell. Last night's flashback gave us some insight. This truly was a problem for the Others, but not always. If Ben is to believed, he was born on this island. Additionally, Roussou gave birth on the island, as did Claire. So this "problem" has not always existed and perhaps is gone. Claire's condition last night was made to further this "fear" with Sun as well as win Juilette some trust. Babies have long been a key component to the mystery of the island. However, I'm not sure last night's episode really put anything into focus about that. Instead, I think it made the water a bit more cloudy. The inconsistencies (Ben/Roussou's births) are too glaring to be simple oversight on the part of the writers. So, something else is going on other than what Ben told Juilette. That's my hunch. 4. Juliette: I'm not sure who's side she's on right now. The reveal that it's all part of Ben's plan was a nice twist, but not unexpected by a lot of people here. Her skills at manipulation have always been on display, so it's really hard to see what side she's playing on. Last night they designed her flashbacks to get us to believe that she was going to go against Ben only to come back with the end "twist" and punch us in the face. I'm not sure it worked simply because the audience doesn't really trust her enough even to believe her own backstory. But maybe that's just me. So I can't say which side she is on. Strong cases can be made for both. However, it was interesting that Ben said "See you in one week". It's been 2 or 3 days since then, meaning that the time is drawing near. What is it that Ben hopes she can accomplish by being there exactly? You could argue that anything she could witness, the Others could as well just by being the sneaky bastards that they are. They don't really need a plant in the camp anymore. They have the lists, they know who's there. There has to be an end game (from Ben's perspective, whether or not Juliette is going to follow it is not important right now) but what is it? Was the gas mask given to her to use when the Others left the village or perhaps it's meant to protect her in a week when time is up? 5. The Crash/Flame Station: I've been one of the ones who has believed (since Season 1) that the Others had been "watching" the Lostaways even before they boarded Oceanic Flight 815. The random intersecting of lives is all too coincidental to be unplanned by someone. This theory was simultaneously bolstered AND damaged in the Flame Station last night. The fact that Ben could call someone to "watch" Juilette's sister (without her knowing) was alarming and supported the theory. Who knows how long they have been watching her and Juilette (the death of her husband suggests they have been watching a long time). Ben told the man watching to "hurry back" -- that was an interesting beat. Certainly the man did not go from the Island to Juilette's sister's house in one day (after Juilette called Ben a liar) just to prove Ben's point. He had been there before hand. But for how long? Why is he coming back now? Perhaps it was all one big mind game played by Ben ... or perhaps they were watching them all along. The theory took a hit when they discussed the crash itself. Ben asked for a "list of all the passengers". You could argue that means it was just a random colleciton of people and the lists, background material were all gathered after the crash and the Others really hadn't been watching the Lostaways for a long period of time. Or, you could argue just the opposite. Perhaps when Ben asked for a passenger list, he was asking Michal (sp) to get it from Jacob. Perhaps this all powerful Jacob, the man who can cure cancer and seems to run this whole outfit, had planned this out. Perhaps not even Ben or the Others are aware of his entire plan. And, when a boat, plane or baloon crashes on the island, it's all due to Jacob's "plan" and they must get the information from him. This makes the most sense to me based on what we've seen in the show. The Others simply know too much about the lives of the Lostaways to have gathered it all from public records. Either they have the best, and most efficient Private Investigators in the world, or they already had extensive files on these people before they boarded that flight. If you can buy that, the question then brings us back to Jacob. And what his plan really is. The fact that Ben might not even be aware of it is scary (from an audience perspective) because Jacob isn't on the island. So how can our heroes (and by extension us) find out the answers??? I think they gave us the answer last season: Penny. Random note of the night: The man who recruited Juilette was named Halpert. It was the first time we got his last name. Anyone who watches the Office knows where it comes from. I thought it was a funny little shout out to The Office and JJ's directing stint on the show this season. I found it funny and believe it was intentional.

Great post -- mainly because I've been thinking the same thing for a while now and it's nice to hear I'm not the only one thinking something's up. Something in my gut tells me that Willis isn't the guy, even if he's there at 12 which I doubt he will be. I also don't buy any of the hype around Poz. I, of course, have ZERO proof/reason to believe this, it's just something I sense. Everything that OBD has been doing leads me to believe they want Crowell in the middle, and not on the outside. I said in my long winded post season recap a few months ago that the lack of a legit #2 WR hurt the Bills' offense more so than any other position (including the lines) after the bye week. And I stand by that. Of course, when I wrote that, the Bills still had TKO and Willis on the roster. Still -- when the Bills brought Mechem in for an interview, my spidey sense went haywire. It would not surprise me, nor would I find it a bad selection, if the Bills took a WR with their first pick (either at 12 or trading back). The glut of 2nd tier RBs (and/or the possibility of Turner being available via trade) and my instinct that Willis nor Poz is really their guy, makes this much more likely. The only player who would really give me pause, if there at 12, would be Peterson. But like you, this is just my two cents and it's probably worth closer to one cent.

I just watched the episode and am far too tired to go into detail now about my thoughts on the episode (in case anyone cared ) but just one tiny thing about the 9/11 connection -- 9/22/04 is when the pilot premiered on ABC. Any connection to 9/11 is not intended, it was just a very subtle shout out to the show's origins. Time, I believe, is very important to the show (most of the books referenced directly or indirectly on the show have dealt with time travel/wrinkles in time or other various time issues) -- at one time I thought I had a bead on where they were heading with it in relation to the flashbacks and exactly how many years had passed, but that theory has been shot to sh-- this past season (it had to do with every flashback being a multiple of 3 in terms of years back in time -- Locke's 4 year flashback this season ruined it). Still, despite the importance of time and dates, I do think the writers/producers wish to avoid any 9/11 references. It would just be too much reality and ultimately be a bit unnecesary. However, like you, I made that connection when Juliette said that line as well. I think it's more a symptom of the national psyche than a conscious plant by the writers. It is kind of interesting from a human psychology perspective -- but then again I'm a huge nerd.

Ron?

I agree that it was a terrific episode. It's amazing how good the action can be on an hour long show -- it's what makes 24 so damn addictive. The episode was written by David Fury, who was fired from LOST at the end of season 1 despite writing some of the best episodes (Hurley's first backstory which introduced the numbers, Locke's first episode 'Walkabout' and Claire's first back story with the psychic). He got picked up last season by 24 and now is one of the show's co-executive producers. The rumor always was he was let go from Lost for being too "supernatural" (his background includes writing for both Buffy and Angel prior to Lost) and yet now he is writing for a serialized cop show. Just kinda funny.

But then what would Mandy say?!

Do you honestly think with all the talk about "character" coming from the front office they would ever be able to deal with a person such as Ricky?

True. But they didn't cost a first round pick I told you I was a bastard!

I agree with the second paragraph ... but the first: I think Davis is an excellent comparison because he couldn't beat anyone out in GB. LT is going to be the best back in the history of the game when he hangs 'em up. I really believe that. Thurman was certainly one of the better backs to play the game as well. It's an interesting comparison to look at how two great backs make their backups look better than perhaps they really are. Davis had his shot and failed -- but then was tremendous in Buffalo filling in for Thurman. He was great at his role. Now, Turner hasn't been given the option yet, but he has looked great filling his role in the wake of LT. Still, there is a great, big chance that he could fail as miserably as Davis did when he gets elevated to the number one spot. And that is my whole point (and yours) that we never know. It's a crapshoot like you said. Meaning, for me, I'd like to play it safe and mitigate the risks and set Turner's value based on the other backs that have been dealt this off season -- all of whom have proven records where Turner is still speculation.

No, I understand that you didn't make it up. In fact I remember reading that when you originally posted it. I just don't agree with it. Using that logic, if you put Thomas Jones and Willis into the draft, I would argue they would be taken higher than anyone but Peterson -- even above Turner. Willis and Jones would be clear first rounders using the same rationale that article used to describe Turner which brings us back to the discussion of worth. Despite the fact that Jones and Willis would be first rounders this year, they were only worth a second and 2 thirds. So why is Turner, who would be selected after them worth more? It's really a circular argument. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Turner on the Bills, but only at a certain cost. My other problem with that argument is more due to the fact that I don't buy that Turner has really proven himself. He is still an unknown to me. When you're running behind a back like LT, it makes everything so much easier. Just ask Kenny Davis. Kenny was a good RB and a perfect fit for what the Bills needed him to do -- but he wasn't a No 1 RB even though at times he looked the part. In fact, the past two years Turner has almost mirrored Davis's numbers in '90 and '91 (arguably Thomas's AND LT's best years). Turner has gotten his yards after LT has beaten up on the defense, and they are back on their heels. He has never steped out on the field as the number one back (as far as I know) and delivered that 100 yard game. He has scored a lot of touchdowns and returns kicks. He has filled in great for LT when he needs a blow -- but he hasn't proven he can do it on his own. Of course he never will prove this until someone gives him that opportunity which I guess is my point. I'm not against the Bills being the team to give him that opportunity, but they owe it to themselves to hope for the best but expect the worst. They have to approach the trade with that mentality. Just as an aside, here are the numbers for Davis/Thomas in 90'/91 and Turner/LT in 2005/06: 1990: Thurman (1,297 yds Rushing, 11 TDs), Davis (302 yds Rushing, 4 TDs + 1 rec TD) 2005: LT (1,462 yds Rushing, 18 TDs), Turner (335 yds Rushing, 3 TDs) 1991: Thurman (1,407 yds Rushing, 7 TDs), Davis (624 yds Rushing, 4 TDs + 1 rec TD) 2006: LT (1,815 yds Rushing, 28 TDs), Turner (502 yds Rushing ,2 TDs)

Another great point.

That's all I'll say about crayonz. I'm sorry, I find the guy funny. As for your original post, I know I'm being a bastard, but I have to take you to task with point two. It's impossible to argue that if Turner were in this draft he would be the 2nd back taken in this year's draft for a number of reasons. First, when he was in the draft he was a second day pick (fifth round if I recall correctly) because teams weren't sure about his speed or ability to be an every down back. This was after a season in which he was a preseason Heisman hopeful. After 4 years in the NFL, he still doesn't have a large enough body of work to know the answer to these questions, plus is now approaching 26 years old, making his window that much smaller to succeed in the league. Of course he is more "proven" than the other 2nd/3rd round players (and more so than Lynch or Peterson) -- but on paper Lynch, Peterson and even some of the 2nd rounders top him coming out of college. That being the case, it makes more sense to use one pick on one of them than it does to use multiple picks on Turner. I know I'm nitpicking -- but I just am not sure it's a fair arguement to make when discussing Turner's value in this year's draft. However, the rest of you're post is excellent. It is all a crapshoot. Still, there are ways to mitigate the risk from the Bills' perspective. Part of that entails using other premier backs as benchmarks for a player's worth. I would conceed that it's not fair to compair last year's trade market to this year's (there are too many variables to make an accurate comparison), however I think it's totally legit to compare the trades for Thomas Jones and Willis in relation to Turner. Both of those players, like it or not, have better resumes and on-field merits than Turner who is 100% potential at this point in his career. So, from a pure risk management standpoint, giving up more picks (or higher picks) than what Baltimore or the Jets gave up would be an unwise investment. Of course, if you roll the dice and win, the Bills will look fine and no one will care. But if you miss -- then not only does the organization look like fools, it sets your team back a year, if not more. It's all about risk management, and for me, giving up a first round pick this year (or next) would be assuming too much risk on Turner.

I have to chime in about Leonard. Like Kelly and Daq, the only way I would want to see the Bills taking Leonard is if it's in conjunction with another RB like Pittman or Bush. I'm not certain why everyone on TSW seems to be enamored with Leonard. To me he is nothing but a Rob Konrad clone with a bit more speed. He's not even Alstott (sp) -- and I think Alstott was perhaps the most overrated player in the history of the NFL. Big statement, I know. That man owes his entire career to John Madden. But that's a different rant. Konrad and Alstott are fine at what they do -- but neither are guys you build a rushing attack around. I would argue it's difficult to even build a RB by committee approach with them and a true TB because of their limitations. Factoring in all those considerations, I think it would be a terrible waste of a pick for the Bills to take Leonard with a 2nd rounder and expect him to fulfill the gaping hole in the backfield. But that's me.

LSI said he'll never drink or be drunk, remember?

But now the viewers have a new reason to keep voting for Sanjaya and no it's not his new mustache (which doesn't look like a mustache at all, in fact it looks like he tried to eat a black sharpie and missed his mouth -- several times). Now when we learn Sanjaya is safe we get to watch his father dance an Indian gig like the homeless man on my street who dances for nickles. It's the funniest 30 seconds of TV Fox has had in a long time!

Is that a polar bear joke?