Bob in STL

No way. Every time I hear his name I think of George Costanza.

? Not sure what you are talking about? Ralph and Bid Adams are the the only ones left from the Foolish Club. Ralph is the only one to stay put and not sell. Lamar Hunt started the AFL and owned the AFL's Dallas Texans (now the Kansas City Chiefs), while the Houston Oilers (now the Tennessee Titans) were Bud Adams' franchise. The other six members of the "Original Eight" were Harry Wismer (the Titans of New York, now the New York Jets), Bob Howsam (Denver Broncos), Barron Hilton (Los Angeles Chargers, now the San Diego Chargers), Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. (Buffalo Bills), Billy Sullivan (Boston Patriots, now the New England Patriots), and Chet Soda (in a group of eight) (Oakland Raiders).

Come on now. Those Viking Cheerleaders surprised a lot of folks. :0 I agree that Fitz got knocked around too much. Hangartner has the same mentality. He has been in a few scrums this year.

From what I saw he could have learned these things, in this order: 1. Preparing for a talented team on the road in a dome takes more work. 2. LT position not as good as he might have thought. 3. More talent and depth needed on OL. 4. McKelvin might just be the dumbest player in the NFL. 5. Hangartner is a valuable part of the team. 6. Nelson could end up his best WR. 7. 10 ways to use a TE if only he had one. 8. McCargo is as bad as he thought. 9. Find me some linebackers Nix! 10. Those Viking Cheerleaders sure look good.

They didn't dump Coleman, he is injured and out for the seaosn as is Ellison and Davis. Considering we released Mitchell by injury settlement, and then cut Ellis we are very thin at LB.

Jets. I simply hate the Pats* with all my might. Brady especially. Today is Teddy Bruschi Appreciation Day, another reason for the Pats to lose. Not just lose, lose big hopefully. Can't stand Bellichek or Kraft either. I am not a Jets fan but since they started wearing their late 60's throwbacks I always think about the AFL and Joe Namath when I see them. As a kid I loved the AFL teams. I will tell you this ... Everyone that rooted for an AFL team rooted for the Jets in SB III and the Chiefs in SB IV.

1. Trading Lamonica and Glenn Bass for Tom Flores and Art Powell. I want that trade back. 2. Letting Ahmad Raschad go because he wanted a $20,000 raise. That was a bad move. 3. Cutting Gary Anderson - that turned out to be a bad move too. Oh well. there was nothing wrong with McGee, epsecially back then, he was one of the best players on the team. They should have kept Greer and not drafted McKelvin.

Actually gaurds are hired to be backup or emergency centers. Many gaurds get reps at center. Your idea of using Sanborn and snapping the ball 15 yards deep on every play is absurd to say the least. Levitre had been working some at center in practice. It was baptism by fire but that is just the way it goes.

Great topic. Something that has never been discussed on TSW before.

Tell it like it is Bill. 1 - Fitz is good and he is a warrior. I would still draft Luck if he were sitting there for us. 2 - Johnson = average possesion reciever. 3 - Bell is playing ok but I would not hesitate to draft a stud LT and try Bell at RT. BTW - Fina was much, much better. 4 - Lets draft the "BPA in a position of need". If have to stop drafting CBs and RBs. 5 - (McKelvin + Clements) < Winfield 6 - Lee was invisible when we needed him, as usual. I think they were focusing more on Johnson. 7 - Chan has a big job ahead of him. 8 - Poz is the best LB we have, and that is a problem. Most of the others could not make a decent NFL defense. 9 - Donte = more bad plays than good plays. That was their QB he fell on after the whistle. 10 - Right side of the line: Urbik, Howard, Wrotto = a smorgasboard of Practice Squad level talent. 11 - Keep the faith. We only need to replace about 8 starters to contend for playoffs (LT, RT, TE, DE, ILB, OLB, CB).

He looks like a boy out there. How do you take him over Orakpo?

If not LB then we could go DE or DT too. We need to address the front 7 and find some playmakers. OT and TE also need attention. I would not mind trading down and getting more picks, adding another 2 and 3 would be awesome.

On the simulataneous catch they could not call offensive pass interference because penalties are not part of the review process. Recall the interception by Corner in the end zone versus Pittsburgh. There was offensive pass interference on that play too. On today's play I thought they made the right call. Both of them had it and the offensive player came down inside the pylon. Since the ball is awarded to the offense it was ruled a TD. I wish Whitner would have blown everybody up and knock the ball loose, he tried for the ball too.

Allen is a rare player. You don't face a pass rusher like that every week. If we are solid on the RT we can use a TE or an RB to help Bell. Since we are much weaker at RT it makes it hard to help Bell. Add in that we were down to a backup center playing with a backup RG and you saw what happened. As I said in my original post. We need tackles --- as in plural.

Agree but at least Bell has played well at times. Jared Allen made him look bad today. Allen has done that to many LT's in this league.

Over reaction. The Bills have a long way to go and they have made some progress. They played a better team and got rolled. This just in ... the Vikes are better than a 4-7 team. The Vikings front 7 exposed our offensivbe tackles today. Our weak derfensive front 7 got man handled. We have the same weaknesses today that we had last week. I expect the Bills will be competitve again next week. Hard to say with the injuries mounting.

Your correct. If Wood is ready he will most likely get a chance at center. In reserve we have Wang a some lineman on the practice squad.

Wrotto can be looked at as a starter if you like but i consider him a 3rd stringer. We started with Cornell Green, then Howard (not even a tackle), then Wrotto. Wang was drafted as a tackle but has been moved to gaurd. We need better tackles than this collection to beat good teams.

Lots of Minnesota holding early in the game that was let go. The nonfumble by Minnesota was almost identical to the fumble by the Bills FB. They get the call and we get a TD called back. I think they made the correct call on the TD pass that was a simultaneous catch. The phantom holding call on Kyle Williams? He was being tackled on the play! How about a roughing penalty for blocking the punter? Isn't he fair game if he is covering a kick? How about Jared Allen hitting Fitz in the head twice? Whitner got called for a much softer infraction. Do I blame the ref for the loss? No way. Do I think they called and uneven game? Yes.

Weak against the run. Has lots to learn in the big leagues.

I think he is dumber than a box of rocks but no. He should not be benched for one bad game. I would not have him return kicks. He cannot be trusted to be smart with the ball.

1. The Bills were outclassed in every phase of the game. Chan said they weren’t ready and I believe him. Our young troop did not do well with the dome noise either. 2. I was bummed to see Farve get hurt. His erratic and selfish play was our best chance at an upset. 3. Our O-line really went down the tubes with Hangartner out. I truly believe that Hangartner gets a bum rap on TSW. Urbik © - Cordero Brown (RG) and Wrotto (RT) -- than was painful to watch. Then Urbik gets hurt. Maybe this will stop the talk about our line being set. We really need to draft tackles. 4. I am relieved that Fitz did not get killed. He was not very good today but considering the o-line injuries he was ok. 5. McCargo and Maybin played but I cannot see any positives to that. Carrington struggled but at least he is a rookie. Spencer Johnson did ok. How about the “holding penalty” called on Kyle Williams during one of the Viking TDs? 6. We really need linebackers. Moats made a few plays, Poz made lots of tackles but this looks like the weakest unit on the team. 7. How often do you gets 4 pics and lose? Florence was good but McKelvin was very bad today. I’ll bet he cheated just to get a 13 wonderlic score. Another fumble on a kick-off return, he has to be the dumbest player on the team. Great athletic ability and zero football sense. 8. We need to run more. I liked the Jackson-Spiller backfield, now let’s do a something with it. If we can improve the O-line next year we could make this a strength. 9. Stevie was held in check. Evans made a few catches in mop up. Good to see David Nelson back. I wish we had a TE on this team. 10. For all the fans here that want to lose just to “bottom out” and get the best pick possible you may get your wish now that the OL is decimated.

Leonard is a good player and was also good for the Bills. Think about all coaching changes, GM changes, scheme changes and look at the good players that leave and the countless re-Drafting that the Bills have done, especially at RB and DB. Antoine Winfield and Pat Williams from the Butler era still bothers me.

You are a good man Pils. That summarizes what I have been doing for years. Someday we will get there. Hey TC. The guy across from me is s good kid and he has youth on his side. Of course we never give up either, which is why we are at a Sports Bar watching a 2-9 team.

He is haivng a good year, and maybe his best year, but I want to know one thing. Who is supposed to be covering all of those wide open TE's that have killed us all season? No. That would be Byrd. He is usually in the end zone behind the receiver making the TD catch.