Bob in STL

A number 9 pick should be more than average you say? Look up how many first round number 9 picks ended up "average". I did not rate the most recent ones. X marks the spot on average, some of my ratings may be debatable but many turned out to be average or below average. See below: 2011 Tyron Smith Cowboys 1 9 9 T USC 2010 C.J. Spiller Bills 1 9 9 RB Clemson 2009 B.J. Raji Packers 1 9 9 DT Boston College 2008 Keith Rivers Bengals 1 9 9 LB USC 2007 Ted Ginn Jr. Dolphins 1 9 9 WR Ohio State - x 2006 Ernie Sims Lions 1 9 9 LB Florida State - x 2005 Carlos Rogers Redskins 1 9 9 DB Auburn -x 2004 Reggie Williams Jaguars 1 9 9 WR Washington -x 2003 Kevin Williams Vikings 1 9 9 DE Oklahoma State 2002 John Henderson Jaguars 1 9 9 DT Tennessee 2001 Koren Robinson Seahawks 1 9 9 WR North Carolina State - x 2000 Brian Urlacher Bears 1 9 9 LB New Mexico 1999 Chris Claiborne Lions 1 9 9 LB USC - x 1998 Fred Taylor Jaguars 1 9 9 RB Florida 1997 Tom Knight Cardinals 1 9 9 DB Iowa - x 1996 Rickey Dudley Raiders 1 9 9 TE Ohio State - x 1995 Kyle Brady Jets 1 9 9 TE Penn State - x 1994 Antonio Langham Browns 1 9 9 DB Alabama - x 1993 Lincoln Kennedy Falcons 1 9 9 T Washington 1992 Tommy Vardell Browns 1 9 9 RB Stanford - x 1991 Stanley Richard Chargers 1 9 9 DB Texas - x 1990 Richmond Webb Dolphins 1 9 9 T Texas A&M 1989 Sammie Smith Dolphins 1 9 9 RB Florida State - x 1988 Terry McDaniel Raiders 1 9 9 DB Tennessee 1987 Jerome Brown Eagles 1 9 9 DT Miami (FL) 1986 John Rienstra Steelers 1 9 9 G Temple - x 1985 Kevin Allen Eagles 1 9 9 T Indiana 1984u Joey Jones Falcons 1 9 9 WR Alabama - x 1984 Rick Bryan Falcons 1 9 9 DT Oklahoma - x 1983 Bruce Matthews Oilers 1 9 9 G USC 1982 Gerald Riggs Falcons 1 9 9 RB Arizona State 1981 Mel Owens Rams 1 9 9 LB Michigan - x 1980 Doug Martin Vikings 1 9 9 DT Washington - x 1979 Al Harris Bears 1 9 9 DE Arizona State 1978 Keith Simpson Seahawks 1 9 9 DB Memphis State - x 1977 Mike Butler Packers 1 9 9 DE Kansas - x 1976 Bubba Bean Falcons 1 9 9 RB Texas A&M - x 1975 Mike Fanning Rams 1 9 9 DT Notre Dame - x 1974 Wilbur Jackson 49ers 1 9 9 RB Alabama - x 1973 Otis Armstrong Broncos 1 9 9 RB Purdue - x 1972 Jerome Barkum Jets 1 9 9 WR Jackson State - x 1971 John Brockington Packers 1 9 9 RB Ohio State 1970 Cedric Hardman 49ers 1 9 9 DE North Texas State 1969 Marty Domres Chargers 1 9 9 QB Columbia - x 1968 Haven Moses Bills 1 9 9 WR San Diego State - x 1967 Bob Hyland Packers 1 9 9 G Boston College - x

Very happy to hear Poz is comfy. Like the Pink Floyd song: " Momma's gonna keep Poz Cozy and Warm"

4-0 could happen. 0-4 could happen. I just want to beat the Pats* at home.

A couple of factors between Denver and Jax: Denver has better DL talnet and a couple of studs in Miller and Dumervil. They are better than Jax. Denver played a lot of stunts and blitzes that we were not ready for and did not adjust too. We played plain vanilla blocking schemes. Bell got his wake up call.

I doubt that Chan will go for it but Bellichek, Ryan, and Sparano all agree with you.

If our defense brngs an A+ game we have a shot at it. All I want is a shot.

When Chuck Knox rebuilt the Bills he brought in solid veteran help. Conrad Dobler (G), Phil Villapiano (LB), Isiah robertson (LB), Rossevelt Leaks (FB) ... and others. Adding a solid vet would help, especially at OT, but I do not see this FO paying the $$$.

Larry Felser is not a hack. He retired after an excellent career and is highly repected in his field. This article was written before the game, the timing was poor in light of the good showing by the team. I will admit that since his retirement his column is hardly worth reading anymore. Every now and then he makes a great observation or brings up a highly relevant point but his writing just seems to lack substance. At one time that was not true. I would not call him a hack but he not what he was. Still he is an icon in Buffalo sports reporting and more connected than any of us.

I met John Butler one summer day. We were walking into the Baseball Park (may have been called Pilot Field or Dunn Tire) at the same. I asked him if he was John Butler and he said yes. I introduced myself and we shook hands. He hand was the size of a catchers mitt. I told him about our BillsBackers group in St. Louis. He loved hearing about it. We talked for about 20 minutes about a lot of things, mostly football. He said he loves the Bills and Buffalo and that he was lucky to have such a great job doing what he loved. He spoked with energy and passion. You could tell he meant every word of it. I remember asking him if he was interested in Ferrell Edmunds as a free agent TE since Metzellars was gone. They had drafted Lonnis Johnson and Tony Cline. He said that Cline was already looking very impressive. He even said his opinion was that Edmunds took to many "plays off". I could not believe how candid he was. Whatever happened between him and Wilson must have been very bad. I recall reading that Wilson visited Butler before Butler's passing and they reconciled.

This may be true but even when we got out of cap hell we made many dubious drafts and free agency moves. John Butler and AJ Smith were far more capable football people than we have ever had since their departure. They could have blown up the Bills, dumped salary, restarted the program and been competitive again in 4 years. Competitive in our division by the 5th year. Look at the crap we have dealt with since then --- TD, Greggo, Mularkey, Levy, Brandon and Jauron. Butler/Smith know football better than this entire cast of characters combined. Buddy Nix was on the staff when we had Butler and Smith.

Overdorf has been moving up in the organization for a long time. He was Butler's cap manager when the cap was first put into place. Back then he was respected. Over the years he has been promoted and gained influeunce within the organization. Not his fault that Wilson repsects and trusts him. Bottom line is that we need a "football man" running the football side of the business. Wilson seems to put most of his faith in businessmen such as Littman (accounting), Overdorf (contracts/finances) and Brandon (marketing). We really need a Football GM that runs the whole show, reporting only to Wilson. Look at the Sabres --- Pegula brought in Ted Black to handle the Hockey Business that he admittedly knows little about. They let Regier handle the Hockey personnel side as the GM. Wilson has been influenced or persuaded by his business people to the detriment of his football people. There is a long history of unhappy GMs and Coaches.

He implies that if you change one word, "steriods" to "xxxxxxxx" then is story is correct. Well what is xxx? Beer? Fireworks? Cuban cigars? I give him some credit for the apology but he left himself a big out.

Gregg Williams was going to make the #2 defense in the league into the #1 defense, remember???? That is what really hurts.

Nix must be taking marketing lessons from Brandon. Lets forget the Eagle and talk about the Bills. Bringing in free agents you say? All the remaining free agent are leftovers so if we bring in any they are depth/filler players -- which on the Bills means a potential starter at most positions. We brought in Smith and Barnett and we signed them. Who else? We negotiated with Clabo but did we bring him in? If his wife was concerned about moving the family did we pay to bring her in? Do we have people on the payroll to help with free agents signings? Heck, Kim Pegula met with all the players wives when the Sabres went on a West Coast trip. She went to Calgary to talk to Robin Regher's wife and help close the deal. What do the Bills do again? Sign our own players? Like who, Kelsey? Yes we signed Florence and Williams. How many others were let go with good mileage left. The list is long. Even under the Nix era we let veterans go and replaced them with less. We demand competition? Where other than OL and LB, areas that were so woeful we have no choice. So what great competion do we have in camp this year? Rinehart-Levitre-Bell. Woo-hoo! What are the other 31 teams doing? Well 29 of them are making the playoffs at least one in the past decade. The other two, Detriot and Houston, look to be further along than we are. I jumped on the Donohoe/Greggo bandwagon. And the Levy/Jauron bandwagon. I am not implying the sky is falling but I will start giving this regime credit when they show results.

The Kelsey hate is similar to the Whitner and Poz hate. People just don't think he is very good. As a linebacker I agree, he is bad. As a DE he is decent back up. Before Moats, Stevie Johnson was a favorite of the developmental players. I think the dreds and the rapping helped his popularity because he never played for two years. Last year Stevie had a breakout year and we need more of these young hopefuls to do the same. Moats seems to a be favorite on this board. He has shown some flashes as a pass rusher and has potential. The new favorite hopefuls are Batten, Carrington, Sheppard and Jasper. There were people on this board pencilling Sheppard in as a starter before the lockout even ended. This things take on their own life form on TSW.

You end the last season with Bell, Pears, Wang and Wrotto as your OTs. You bring in one new tackle ... a 4th round draft pick. You try for the best OT in free agency and you do not get that done. Your twenty something million under the cap but you do not bring in any other players for OT? ---- Yes, Chan is trying to make something out of this mess.

Good points. The defense has to be beter with Wannstadt helping out and the addition of Dareus and Barnett. Plus we have Kyle Williams. If Merriman is healthy they could be decent. On offense, uhmm, uhh ... if Fitz has time to throw we will be ok.

Gailey was out of the NFL for 12 years but he coached and ran a NCAA Div 1 program. He saw first hand how todays players are turned into coddled prima donnas. Hew knows what they are all about. He knows that the leadership and accountability has to come from the players. Gailey is not out there missing blocks and tackles. If there is a problem in the locker room it is because of a lack of veteran leadership by the players. We have no leaders like the glory days with Jim Kelly, Kent Hull, or Darryl Talley. This is easy to understand since we change coaches and GMs every 3-4 years. The players we draft we often fail to develop. When they do develop they leave because a new coach comes in and brings in "his players". We are in a viscous cycle of change and all it is doing is breeding a losing mentality. Who are the core veteran players on this team? Evans (now gone)? Jackson? K. Williams? Wilson?

Sounds like a veteran backup on the inside. We have Davis and Barnett most likely starters. We can swing Moats outside now and have Sheppard/ White and now Morrison.

I think that the internet communication certainly amplifies the problem and the negative feelings. I have sufferd with this team through all the lean years and like all of you out there remain a die hard. Just cannot imagine me not being a fan and going to Buffalo a couple times a year to watch them.

Good points. I was going to mention that the era between Chuck Knox and Marv Levy was very grim. Never under-estimate what adding a HoF QB (Kelly) and an all time great defensive player (Smith) can do. Each of this men helped to make the people around them better. Kyle williams is the best football player on the team right now. I hope to say I'm wrong and Dareus, Merriman, and Johnson have great seasons.

Maybe so, that was a bad era, but we had less communication outlets to put spin on it.

After scanning the topics on this board it was really dawned on me how bad things look for the Bills right now. While the team is making some strides in some areas there really has been very little done in the past year to improve this team. Some of the negative stuff: 1. Ownership issues - more than any other time there seems to be a lack of a winning comittment. They will make tons of money no matter what. 2. No known succession plan for the inevitable passing of Ralph. 3. Lack of respect from the national media has reached an all time high. Maybe today's journalists have more insight or is it our culture now? 4. Just when we think we have a football man running the show a story leaks that maybe that is not so. (Overdorf and the Evans trade) 5. Front office taking a slow deliberate approach to rebuild, almost a reluctance to bring in better players and depth. 6. Not since the early 70's (prior to Lou Saban's return) have we had so little talent on the roster. At least relative to the rest of the league and especially our division. Are things that bad for the Bills or could it be the mass communications blasting away at us? Think about how things are today - sports radio, all sports TV, internet, blogs, tweets, youtube. Seems like the focus is on the negative. I even find it to be happening to me.