Bob in STL

Harvey was worse than that. from Wikipedia: Player in careerEdit Johnson played as a linebacker for the New York Yankees of the All-America Football Conference (AAFC) from 1946 to 1949. In 1951, he played as a linebacker for the NFL's New York Yanks. CoachingEdit After eight years as an assistant coach and then defensive coordinator with the Buffalo Bills, Johnson first took the reins as head coach in 1968, when Joe Collier was fired one game into the season. The Bills went 1–10–1 with Johnson at the helm, and he was replaced the following year by John Rauch. Johnson returned to his role as the Bills' defensive backfield coach for two seasons before resuming the head coaching post in 1971. After finishing with a 1–13 record that year, Johnson was reassigned to the scouting department. He compiled a record of 2–23–1 in his two seasons. Johnson was also on the Buffalo Bills coaching staff when the Bills won the 1965 AFL Championship game. Johnson continued to work as a scout for the team until his death in 1983. It was speculated that Johnson's love of thoroughbred horse racing, a passion he shared with owner Ralph Wilson, allowed him to stay on the Bills payroll despite his poor performance in coaching.[1]

I miss Billy Brooks.

Beane was not the GM for the Mahomes draft. Maybe he would have picked him but if he did Mahomes would have a totally different development path. Mahomes is looking good now. After a full year on the bench under a veteran Alex Smith, with Andy Reid’s at the helm, and playing on a solid team on the rise. The Bills roster was was going to be purged with or without Mahomes as too many big salaries were coming and none of them included a franchise QB. The roster of Whaley could not be sustained as it continually pushed big salaries out to the point were 1/5 of the team was making a huge majority of the money. Never have they “jettisoned” players with quirks. They kept Incognito, McCoy, and Hughes- all of whom have “quirks” I guess. The traded players had salary issues or did not fit the plan or the culture. Or Harvey Johnson

He can say what he wants, it will not change his contract. The Bills won 9 games with marginal talent because they worked hard and bought in. No reason to think that mentality has changed. The talent level has dropped another notch or two, we can debate why or what they could have done different but we are who we are. Now they need to get to work and win a few.

He was a good teammate and a true professional. He stood there and took responsibility and accountability. I think he did his best and gave a honest effort. Yes, his arm is quite limited. Otherwise he was a good QB and I wish him the best.

Yes

This cant be! The experts on TSW say the Ducasse is the worst guard in the league. How dare a non bias grading system be put in place. As for Miller, he had a very rough first game. Good to hear he stepped up. Ive been saying for the past two games that Groy is not getting it done. I hope Bodine can at least make the line calls. Tired of seeing blitzes that are not picked up. Oh, you’re following the draft pundits and TSW folklore. You may know that Vlad sucks but the coaches and his grades say otherwise. He is having a good season thus far according to more reliable data from PFF.

He can start by playing better in practice. What is the infatuation with this guy.

Texting his wife and friend from the sidelines. Happy with his decision. Nothing in that article changes my opinion.

They have a QB coach on the roster, too many cooks can spoil the soup. He was working with Jordan Palmer in the off season and maybe that will resume.

Joe Buscalia No doubt that Allen and Edmunds have to get better, they are rookies in critical positions and they are learning., but to consider the thought that the OL is not a big problem is like saying you have not watched the games. PFF is pretty good but they do not know the game plan going in so their analysis is not complete IMO ... Joe Buscaglia is not a football expert. He is WKBW Bills beat reporter. He is more qualified to make a Bocce's Pizza than he is to grade out NFL players. I will agree with your notion that the fans here need to chill out and let the season unfold. I do Trust the Process and I am sticking with this staff for the next few years. Last year showed me a lot about this coach and we need to give them a few years.

That article is pretty much a sign of the times. Give poor behavior a pass. Excuse it away. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard. Davis can quit and it’s ok because the Buffalo Bills deserve it for things that happened years ago. Was being a playoff team last year a problem too? Nevermind that Davis is aveteran and signed a $5M deal that he chose not to honor in the worst way. Never mind that the Coach allowed him to make the team, even when his practice and preseason play were below par. McDermott honored Davis veteran status, paid him fairly, yet this is the Bills fault. Davis can make McDermott look bad and given today’s way of thinking he gets supporters. I have been following sports, especially football, a long time. Seen every franchise struggle for long periods. Todays media like to poke those that are down. It’s part of the humor that fits the times I guess.

If you have the first pick, or even a top 3 you might want to keep it as elite talent can be game changing. Trading down with one those picks should be very expensive.

Were are there to see them. The three times I went there I really enjoyed seeing the older members. My favorite players are from my youth and I do indeed enjoy seeing them and getting to talk to them.

Agree. There are enough Billions $$$ to insure and provide a pension to all the players, not just the HOF players. The guys that played before the union was established deserve better. The money is there and these guys are not going to live forever. There are a lot of players that made very little. In the 60's and prior it was common for them to work two or three jobs. The really big contracts started around the 70's and not all got them. Free agency caused bigger increases in pay, that and the CBA.

There is no fixing it this season by adding free agents. The players available on the street are just about the same level of junk that we have, beside the new players have a learning curve too. The idea that a team with a good OL player will trade him to us for a draft choice is not going to happen either. The weakest player is Miller, then Groy, then Mills and Ducasse. Dawkins is the only solid player in the group. Groy is decent as a C/G backup player as he can back up two positions. Kind of like a Mitch Ferotte but not as good. Most people wont agree and they will say Ducasse is 2nd worst or even the worst but that is not what the game film breakdown tells you. Not that Ducasse is solid, he isn't. Groy is not making good line calls and he has been flagged for illegal procedure. He telegraphs the snap with a head bob on almost every down, putting the rest of the line in a bad position right off the bat. Bodine at center and move Groy to guard and get Miller out ... that is an option. The other is to stay with Groy at center and try Teller for Miller. The OT situation is almost as bad. Pray that Dawkins and the very marginal Mills stay healthy. To fix this mess I think that trading down on our #1 pick to stockpile a few prime picks is in order. We need to draft a few lineman next year in the earlier rounds and we need to find some real help in free agency. We also have dire needs at WR and CB. There is a lot to fix.

Read my post. I never said Reich was a vet or Kelly’s mentor. Nowhere in this thread did I start the mentor concept. I said Reich was his peer, which he was. I do note Kelly’s comments in which he has said numerous time that having Reich there was like having another coach. Reich and Kelly prepared together. During the games Reich was in tune to everything. Elway had had the same relationship with his peer backup, Gary Kubiak.

I never said to sign Moore, but I would have liked it and I think it would have been a smarter move than signing McCarron. BTW - Carr had veteran Matt Schaub on the roster. Goff had veteran Case Keenum on the roster. That is 70% of your list debunked. Most rookie QBs do not start but some do. Most teams have a veteran QB on the roster but rarely not all. If the rookie plays good enough to start then so be it. Having the veteran on the team is smart should the rookie get hurt or is just not ready. Having a veteran that can help the rookie is even smarter. The Bills did none of this. How you can defend what Beane did because you think having a veteran on the roster is "old school" is a bad argument on your part. There is more than one way to develop a rookie. Beane himself probably wishes things would have turned out different. I highly doubt he thinks everything is going to plan at the QB position.

Your math is about as good as your football knowledge. I addressed 50% of the list and added 3 more HoF QB who did not start as rookies. Do your research instead of throwing out partial truths and misleading information.

Kelly had Reich. Elway had Kubiak. Both were lower talent but with huge football IQ. Montana sat behind Steve DeBerg for 2 years. Marino had the veteran Don Strock on the roster with him. Rivers sat behind Brees for 2 years. Big Ben had Tommy Maddox on the roster. Wentz has Foles. Favre, Brady, and Rogers all sat on the bench for awhile. You just don't get it. Yes, some rookie QBs can make it and they are not the norm. Just because a QB starts as a rookie does not mean they don't have another QB on the roster helping them prepare. That does not mean the backup has to be a star, or a former star, just someone with some solid NFL knowledge. If you think that Josh Allen is being handled properly and that having the wisdom of Nate Peterman on his side is good enough I disagree. Most scouts seemed to think that Allen is raw and needs time to learn and time to work on fundamentals. If you like the plan of bringing in McCarron and cutting him, and then going with Peterman then fine. I think the plan was flawed. I would have preferred bringing in a more proven veteran and then letting Allen beat him out for the job. Winning the job by default because Peterman is incapable is not the best way to go for Allen. I just hope he makes it. Maybe he has a good QB coach?

If you ask Jim he will tell you Frank Reich was his biggest supporter and coach and that they prepared together and that during games Reich helped him immensely. Yes, they were peers but at least he had someone there who understood what being a QB meant. It should be no surprise to see Reich coaching today, as he a natural at it.

Totally disagree. Letting the talented but inexperienced try to succeed on his own at the hardest position to master in the NFL, maybe in all of team sports, is lazy and wishful thinking. God forbid that Allen gets hurt and we have to endure any more play from Peterman. The fact that there is no veteran QB on this team right now is inexcusable. There isn't even another prospect on the PS. If this is the new way you can have it.

Bills fans are indeed among the most loyal in the NFL and that is well known around the league. You can think otherwise but I have seen fans in other cities and the passion is not at the same level in all 32 cities. The "abrupt" retirements are more about the Bills bottom feeding on washed up rental players (do to the cap situation) than anything else. Incognito being an exception, the man is ill. The dead cap issue was in part created by the current regime. Next year the cap will be clear and I sure hope they know how to use the money.

Well sure there were things out of anyone's control but there is a lot more to this. Beane made the decisions on who not to sign, who to trade, the draft picks and the free agent signings. I get he did not have much cap money but he also created a lot of the dead cap space by unloading players on contract. He brought in Star, Trent, McCarron, Kerley, Vontae, and Bodine. Not exactly a bumper crop of free agents and none of them are better, in fact most are much worse, than the players they are replacing. So, while I am all for giving Beane and McDermott the benefit of the doubt and even 3-4 years to get this fixed, I must say my confidence in them is starting to erode a bit.

Should they fire Tomlin and cut Big Ben?