newcam2012

It's more of a duty to deescalate. It's always taught in training. Legally speaking they don't have any obligation to. However, I can guarantee you an officer who isn't skilled at de-escalating situations won't be employed long.

I respect authority and that includes the police. I'm a retired law enforcement officer who worked the federal prison system and immigration. During my 25 year career, I was able to avoid 100s and if not thousands of confrontations with good verbal communication skills. Using my discretion prudently and wisely. De-escalating situations over and over and using force appropriately and as a last resort. I tried not to ever have a chip on my shoulder, think I was better than anyone I encountered, and treated people with respect but yet demanded respect back. It's really an act to mold your style. Everyone has their own style sort of speak. I have serious concerns when I look at the Miami police officers actions, style, communication skills, professionalism, and de-escalating skills. I can't help but put myself in their situation and think things would have been vastly different for the good. In no way does that make me think I'm on equal footing with the police. Citizens do have the right to criticize police actions. It doesn't make you less of a citizen. There is plenty to criticize from a law enforcement perspective.

That's fair. I also stated it was the officers perception that matters not mine. I'm giving my opinion based on what I've seen in the video. I see no threat to the officers based on the conduct of Hill and the officers reactions. I see pissed off officers letting a disrespectful Hill how it goes when you don't listen to the police. Many are ok with that.

Your acc of the incident is inaccurate here.

It's not about let's make a deal. It's about being a smart officer, making prudent decisions, using your discretion appropriately, and de-escalating situations. It's not about flexing your muscle, showing how tough you are, and showing you who is the boss. Officers like that often get fired or injured.

I don't know any officer who wouldn't draw his weapon if he thought a suspect was going for a weapon. Your theory is crap. This was a pissing contest about listening to the police not officer safety. The officers owns words verify this. The officer safety theory here doesn't cut it. In fact, the officer clearly states we ain't playing these games. You should have listened. It's not amount you it's about what we say.

Use of force in this situation could have been avoided and wasn't necessary. Hill posed no threat to the officers. Hill didn't need to be removed from his vehicle. In fact, it will make a good training video on what not to do. Police flexing their authority and using unnecessary force should never be condoned. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. This is a case where the police are hiding behind the law and abusing their authority. No way in hell should have this ended this way. It was a clear example of pissed off officers showing Hill what happens when you don't listen. It was never about officers safety.

Of course it's up to officers perspective. As I watched the video, I never once thought the window up was about officer safety. Hill complied gave his document with a rolled down window. Hills presented no threat to the officer. Hill requested the officer to hurry up and write the ticket. After all of this he rolled up his window. No biggie in my eyes. That's when the cop should have retrieved to his vehicle to do what he had to do. It was clear the police officer was flexing his muscles and authority. It was 100% about that not officer safety. Listen to the officers words. You listen to us it's not about you. Not once did an officer mention officer safety. Look at when Hill was cuffed and restrained by one officer. The other officer grabs him by the neck and forceably puts him on the ground. That's wasn't about officer safety either. That was about you do what we tell you to do. How was Hill a threat while being cuffed and restrained by another officer. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances here. This is a failure of police intervention on many levels. Police need to be held to a higher standard than this.

Officers are trained to control their emotions and de-escalate situations. For the most part, officers are very good at this. This events wasn't one of them. It's ok to criticize law enforcement. It's ok to criticize citizens for being disrespectful to police. Both can happen simultaneously.

There's little debate that Hill's behavior contributed to what happened. However, the burden to deescalate fails on the police once a suspect becomes non compliant. Police shouldn't just go rogue because they can. Police shouldn't flex their power just because they can. Police shouldn't use use of force just because they can. Police shouldn't ignore de-escalating situations just because they can. That's exactly what happened here. This is a colossal failure from a law enforcement perspective. Total breakdown of communication skills, de-escalating skills, use of force, and decision making. The higher standard always falls on the law enforcement officer. A fact that you really need to focus on is that Hill complied and gave the officer his license and registration. He then proceeds to tell the officer hurry up and give me the ticket I'm fixen to be late. Something to that effect. All while his window is rolled down. Then he rolls up his window and presumably gets on his phone. The officer chooses to engage Hill and the window instead of going to his vehicle to do his checks and write the ticket. It could have been that simple. It should have been that simple. The officer clearly wanted to show Hill he's the boss instead of de-escalating the situation. He escalated to a whole nother level. Yes, the officer did that not Hill. How many people go to jail for reckless driving? Come on man let's get serious.

Not at all. Hill did negatively contribute to the situation. He acted like a dbag. The cops acted "stern and objective?" Really? They clearly were pissed off and acted unprofessional at best. They failed to deescalate the situation. I believe they did the opposite. This was a police failure on many levels.

I think you are missing the point here. Police officers have discretion and use it all the time. For example, do they arrest people for jay walking or do they just ignore it? One example of thousands. Police officers make tactical decisions daily on whether to use force, detain, arrest, etc... Often minor violations are not enforced and or no use of force is used even when it can be justified. The duty to deescalate is on the police. The police made a lot of terrible decisions in this incident. This should have been a simple ticket and go. Instead the police took it to another level that was totally avoidable. Very well stated.

Often a compliant individual will incriminate themselves or others. A citizen has no obligation to assist a police officer in their investigation. You have a right to not answer questions. That will absolutely be looked at in a negative manner in the police officers eyes. Asserting your rights isn't ideal for police officers. They prefer you sing like a canery. Case law supports that police officers can lie to you during an interrogation. Believe me they do all the time. Examples are: we have you on video or eye witnesses said this.

I agree but do you really feel that window incident was about officer safety? Of course, that's a valid concern. However, take in the totality of the incident. What was said, how it was said, what happened, what didn't happen, and why did it happen? The overwhelming evidence suggest this was a power struggle. Police vs disrespectful citizen. The police officers here were going to teach Hill a lesson. They were going to let him know who is in charge. They are going to send a massage you listen or else. Their comments back this up 100%. At no point, do I see it hear Hill threatening the officer's safety. In fact, he did roll down the window seconds before he was forceably removed from his car. The officers will absolutely claim officer safety here. The officers will cling to the fact that they can remove non compliant individuals from their vehicles. They may have the law on their side. However, I saw police officers who acted unprofessional, abused their power, and botched the whole incident.

There is plenty of blame to go around from Hill to the police officers. IMHO, no one comes out of this situation looking good. Personally, I place more blame on the officers than I do Hill.

I disagree a little. Hill did comply and gave the officers his license and registration. He even told the officer give me the ticket because he's fixen to be late. He then rolled up his window. The cops at point should have just went back to their vehicle and completed their checks and given him a ticket. The whole incident would have been over. Instead, the cop demanded Hill roll down his window. It clearly wasn't an officer safety issue at this point. It was a power struggle. Who is the boss, who is in control, and you are going to listen to us. This is evidenced by what the officers tell Hill when they yank him out of the car, subdue him, and cuff him. You are not in control. You listen to what we have to say. That was the theme. Hill is a jerk. Hill was pissed about the police banging on his window. Hill probably dislikes the police. He was passive aggressive . He lacks respect for the police and his attitude feels like one of entitlement He contributed to the situation no doubt. No way to I support his ***** attitude or conduct. At the same time, he doesn't have to kiss the officers as$ either. The police are always held to a higher standard. That's a constant theme they are taught from the academy to continued training. They are trained in situations where citizens are verbally confrontational, aggressive, passive aggressive, non con compliant, etc... They have a duty to deescalate situations. In no way can any reasonable person say the police officers did this. In fact, they did the opposite. They escalated the whole situation by getting into a pissing contest over a window. I'm convinced the window incident was more about asserting power than an officer safety issue. Legally or not was it wise or prudent for the officers to forceably remove Hill from the vehicle, subdue him, and cuff him? Did they really have to go there? I think not. The officers remarks clearly showed they were pissed at Hill for not listening. Again, nothing to do with officer safety. To make things worse, the officer grabs Hill around his neck while he's cuffed and restrained by another police officer. Says something to the effect of surgery on his ears and comments about the window. This behavior is absolutely unjustified and at best unprofessional. The police really mishandled this whole situation.

I stand corrected. You are right.

Interesting to see what happens from a legal view point. I suspect the POS Hill gets some money and the police department discipline a couple of officers. Soon this will be a non story. I am fascinated by the legal implications of the incident. I stand by what I said but others here are making me question my stance. Not a bad thing.

Definitely a bad look for the police department.

Simple. They run their criminal checks and see if there are warrants. If none, the cop write him traffic violations and notice to appear and he goes on his way.

Bills will score 50.

Did anyone have a chance to see a lot of the dolphin game? How did they look with new D coordinator? How was their online? Not going to ask about their speed or WRs. I did see they had a huge turnover (RB Etienne) at their goaliine. Looked like the jags were about to score and go up by two scores. Sounds like they were very fortunate to win the game.

Partly true and valid. However, a TD to Harrison still would have left the Bills time to get into position and kick a game winning FG. I don't think you can assume the Bills lose at that point. Also, no guarantee the Cards get a TD even if PI is called. I don't see or feel anyone mad or negative. Just a healthy football discussion I believe. Even the "new Newcam" can appreciate that.

I hear you. I disagree with you with the exception of the first part of your 1st paragraph. I think this type of thinking should have been in play vs KC. You make your offensive calls knowing you are in 4 down territory. They didn't do that yesterday or vs the Chiefs. Yesterday, I don't think it was a mistake. However, vs KC is was a huge error in philosophy, judgement, and mentality. Why? Because a FG only tied the game and gave the ball back to KC. I was confident Bass was going to make the FG. I was pretty confident a 6 point lead would hold up due to the way the defense was playing. Due to the lack of offensive weapons Arizona has. Due to the home crowd advantage. Under those circumstances I think kicking the FG was prudent and less risky. There is a huge difference between a team needing a FG to tie vs a TD to win it. Not sure of the odds but has to be a huge difference. I think it's pretty safe to say that a missed 4th down attempt would have led to a Arizona FG. Likely OT or a very long Bass attempt against the wind. No way did I want to go to OT. Just my two cents. But it's Allen and McD. You are comparing apples to oranges here. Brady was damn near automatic under those conditions.

Did you see the raiders coach decision to punt it? What a huge mistake. The Raiders were down with around 7 minutes to go. It was 4th and 2 and they were at around the Charger 42 yard line. Just amazingly dumb. I like him as a coach but that's a huge blunder. I'm not sure you can even defend the decision to punt. Not me. It depends on a lot of variables. Now, if it's Mahomes I'm going for every time.