Beck Water

I beg to differ with you. The Bills were prepared to be patient with Josh, I grant that. But c'Mon, man: the support structure they had in place for Allen's rookie year was either non-existent or bad to very bad: 1) no veteran QB on the roster opening day after they cut AJ McCarron 2) the only other QB was Peterdude, who had flamed out spectacularly in his previous start 3) the OL sucked great big wads, to the point where it simply couldn't support an adequate run game let alone protect the QB 4) the WR give me BBFS flashbacks just thinking about them *shudder* - Zay Jones, Robert Foster, and Fat Kelvin Benjamin. Jason Croom and Charles Clay at TE. 5) David Culley, I'm told he's a good coach, but his previous QB coaching experience was 30 years previous, at the FBS level, in Southwestern Louisiana

I don't have a strong position to debate, because I don't have all-22 of the play. But the screenshot you showed, the DB was playing catchup after having come off Cooper momentarily when he saw how open Kincaid was - and I believe the safety shifted his position towards Cooper when he saw him blow past the DB. Allen has thrown into "bracket" coverage like that successfully multiple times in his career - maybe not this season, IDK Also earlier than your screen shot, at the point where Josh was making his decisions, Coleman honestly was still embrangled with the guy covering him. That's how I see it, no further debate.

I will say this about Lamar pre-draft. There have been accounts that the Ravens had pre-draft meetings where they basically sat down and said something like: "if we draft Lamar Jackson, we have to be willing to tailor our offense to let him be successful. Are we All In for that? Because if we aren't, then we shouldn't" "Yes, we're all in, Let's Do It." "OK" They had Greg Roman already on their staff in 2017 who had designed successful offenses for Colin Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor, who aren't nearly the athletes Jackson is but who were along the same spectrum when they played. That may have helped them see it as possible. So they put the pieces together in 2018 and turned him loose in 2019.

I was thinking that very same thing. "Yo, lemme run right out and sign up to spend my money listening to these guys spew this stuff" Not The bottom line for me is that we like to act like it's the QBs who win or lose the games. And it's true that the QB is the player on the field who has the single greatest influence over the outcome. But in the end, there are 10 other offensive and 11 defensive players on the field every snap.

Thank you, that is very clear. I think it's pretty clear that Josh and Lamar have built a very respectful relationship where they recognize each other's talents. From a sideline perspective, neither of the two of them were very good passers as of the draft. The disrespect was piled pretty high and deep for both. Josh got more recognition as a passer because of the arm-cannon attached to his right shoulder, while his mobility was almost completely overlooked in the press. Lamar got more recognition for his running ability. And you're right, the "switch to WR" take by Polian was just horrible, disrespectful and plain bad. I have wondered if the all-pro and MVP voting have been biased by elements of "blame the white kid for the pre-draft takes on Lamar"? I will say I thought Stephen A Smith was very fair to Josh pre-draft when his old tweets came out.

To be fair, part of that is Josh looking for the deeper option, especially on 3rd down. Example on the throw to Shakir, Dalton Kincaid was open but short of the sticks - to the point where the DB on Cooper saw it and said "aw *****!" and took a step towards him. This allowed Cooper to scoot by him...which then had the safety shading over to pick up Cooper at which point BINGO Josh threw to Shakir. There was a window where Josh had Kincaid open and a window where Josh had a throw to Cooper (after he blew past his guy and before the safety nosed over) This is def. true he is 4th behind Coleman, Hollins, and Shakir in terms of snaps. But, I think if you looked at it in terms of who is on the field for passing downs or intended passing plays, the breakdown would look a bit different and would bump Cooper up. The thing is, the Bills have shifted from being a pass-heavy team to being a very balanced pass/run team - 51% pass, 49% run. I think Cooper is getting his fair share of opportunities in the passing game, there just isn't as much passing game.

Can someone give me the quick summary on who these people are and what their point of contention is?

Sal Maiorana wants to know too. He's about to start a food drive for Cooper and Coleman: https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2025/01/22/buffalo-bills-wide-reciever-vs-chiefs-amari-cooper-keon-coleman-khalil-shakir/77853841007/ I think Maiorana is ignoring the point @Charles Romes makes up thread that if it weren't for Cooper providing a legit outside threat, the game plan would be to crowd the middle to stifle the run and the short/intermediate passing game, and dare Allen to try to throw outside - Ravens and Houston games. And if Shakir were injured, Forgetaboutit. But I would still like to see the Bills put up more of a legit outside threat

"It looked like the game was gonna go to overtime"

It's actually IMO been kind of a reversion. Remember when Beane traded a 3rd rounder or whatever it was for Fat Kelvin Benjamin? That was on the stated philosophy that "big catch radius" was the way to go and "he's always open 2 feet over his head". Then in 2019 when we signed fast smurfs Beasley and Brown, "catch radius" got re-defined as being agile and able to adjust on the ball. Diggs in 2020, elite route runner with elite hands who could adjust on the ball. The problem is, physical teams were taking those guys away when the playoffs came around and the refs kept the laundry in their pockets. So now we're hearing about "big catch radius" and "always open over his head" again with Kincaid and Coleman. The problem for Beane is that we need guys who can win a release cleanly off press man and run elite routes AND are big/physical enough to not get taken away. Coleman was catching more than 50% of his targets before Poyer did whatever he did to his arm (61%) and, the really horrid 20% game he had was with Trubisky and Mike White throwing to him. I'll give him a little grace, but I lean towards thinking he's this year's Boogie Basham or Cody Ford.

Just FYI, Shakir does not get every snap. For example in our 2 playoff games so far, Shakir got 53% and 67% of the snaps, respectively. Regular season, excluding his 1st game back from injury when he was probably on a snap count, he ranges from a low of 50% to a high of 78% The WR with the highest snap count on the team for games where he was active, is Keon Coleman. Excluding the game where he was injured and Week 18, he ranges from a low of 62% to a high of 90%. Hollins is right behind with 46% to 88% (overall on the season, Hollins has the highest snap count but that's because knock wood, Shoeless Mack hasn't missed either a game or a household tips Insta

What were McDermott's comments and what was Babich's response? This guy reported that Milano did go into the blue Medical tent at some point of the game: Milano missed 8 snaps of the game. 5 of them were because the Bills were running a 4-1-6 dime.  (they also ran a 3-2-6 dime) So he missed 3 snaps, potentially, due to injury. Banged Up Bills thinks it was the play where he chased down Jackson: Someone did report that he went into the Blue Tent earlier in the game, so he may have had something looked at there and tweaked or re-injured it. Banged Up comments that he was seen in the locker room putting weight on his R leg. Keep in mind at the point they were doing their media availability, the coaches only have the very highest-level injury info from the game. They're notified that a player goes into concussion protocol. They're notified if a starter is declared "out" of the game (which apparently Rapp was). Other than that, Monday is when players make their way in to the facility for evaluation and treatment or tests, and the coaches are busy wrapping up any learnings from film of the game they just played, then power-watching film from the next opponent. Players who have talked about Toradol say they don't feel the injury during the game or even Monday, but Tuesday.....

Bernard does not come off the field in the Bills dime package. He has the green dot and calls/sets up the defense. No chance we see Cam Lewis coming in over Bernard. This week may be "different" but the Bills played 4-3 on 32% of the defensive snaps against the Ravens - I don't see them doing that as much against KC frankly. TBN ran an article breaking down the defensive formations and I pulled some quotes from it about the coverages if you want to look for my post.

Negative. #18. Coleman (#0) was busy being embrangled at the LOS with the guy who was covering him. Although on further review, Cooper was so open because the back covering him (Wiggins?) saw Kincaid uncovering and expected Allen to throw to him, so he turned and looked back.

The last couple weeks we've prioritized running the ball. Coleman is a better downfield blocker. Samuel has seen similar light usage. You can see the pattern with Knox vs Kincaid. Knox has outsnapped Kincaid at times. It's because Knox is a better blocker. Kincaid's blocking is still more of the "get in the way at the right time" flavor and inline - phhht.

Just playoffs. Regular season it was Van Demark still active last 2 games.

Van Demark wasn't on the injury report. Of course the injury report ends Friday, there's always the chance he developed an illness on Friday night or something. Edit: Van Demark was inactive for the Denver game as well, so not illness.

There's a bit more to unpack there I think. Some media guys who know ball, like Greg Cosell, were saying that Diggs simply wasn't a #1 WR in the league any more by the end of last season (in terms of his ability to release and his speed downfield). Whether he started the season that way and physically wore down, can't say. But it's a fact that by the end of 2022 under Dorsey and with Diggs being force-fed (for example) we weren't seeing the production the latter half of the season. Was that Allen's UCL? Was that Diggs wearing down? Dunno - but Diggs started the season with 7 of 9 games being over (or close to) 100 yds. He finished the season with 2 of 7. And that's under Dorsey. Last season under Brady, Diggs was still targeted 11 times each against Philly and KC. He caught 6 (55%) and 4 (36%) Some posters here with some connections were saying it was an "open secret" as far back as the Senior Bowl last year that the Bills were trying to trade Stefon Diggs. As far as Amari Cooper goes, I think the Bills expected to get more production from him albeit not "Diggs as a focal point" levels. Out of his 8 games with us, he's had 4 over 50 yds and I think that's what the Bills were banking on, 3-4 receptions a game for 50+ yds. He has missed 3 games, 2 with injury and returned playing in a cast. I do wonder if he's still dealing with nagging injuries that are slowing him down. Or maybe at age 30, like a lot of players, he's finding that all the bruises and dings add up during the season. It's hard to tell from the televised broadcast, but I believe I've seen him open at times when Josh went elsewhere with the ball. The throw to Shakir over the middle of the field vs the Ravens, wasn't Cooper beating his guy down the R sideline?

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/use-of-the-helmet/ USE OF THE HELMET It is a foul if a player: lowers his head and makes forcible contact with his helmet against an opponent; or uses any part of his helmet or facemask to butt or make forcible contact to an opponent’s head or neck These provisions do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle or block on an opponent. Penalty: Loss of 15 yards. If the foul is by the defense, it is also an automatic first down. The player may be disqualified. That's probably "leashed dog" syndrome. He was going off a decent amount of time BECAUSE they had a leash on him. If you can't get to someone because your coaches and teammates are holding you firmly back, you can yap a bit.

I linked the rule elsewhere

Where do you get this notion? Maybe look at the rules. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/use-of-the-helmet/ It isn't called nearly as much as it happens but it's not "allowed"

Oh, how short are memories.....Mac Jones rookie year, the Pats went 10-7, Mac threw 22 TD passes to 13 INTs, 224 ypg passing completing 68% ....those aren't world-beating stats but they are absolutely decent for a rookie and he was runner-up OROY to Ja'Mar Chase as a result. Coming into Buffalo, there was a lot of talk about how great he was. Josh McDaniel got a job as HC in Vegas, partly on the strength of how good Mac looked as a rookie. Next year, of course, Belichick got the bright idea to hire Matt Patricia as OC and Joe Judge as QB coach, Mac hated them both and rebelled, and the slippery slope was on. Anyway, that year is pretty much the only argument for Josh McDaniels being a competent OC without Brady and the Patriots Way around him.

Mayyyyyyybe. McDaniels took a young Sam Bradford who had looked promising and won games in his rookie year with Pat Shurmur as his OC, and turned him into a quivering mess who looked as though he totally could not play. 6 TD, 6 INT - in the entire 2011 season. 7-9 and just missed playoffs, to 2-14 and dropping from 26th to 32nd on offense was a big part. Kick McDaniels to the curb, bring in Brian Schottenheimer, and suddenly Bradford looked promising again. Coincidence or not? I think ya gotta keep in mind that outside of his failed stint as a HC in Denver, McDaniels spent the overwhelming majority of his OC career with Tom Brady. In the year he spent as OC in St louis and the 2 years he did not have Brady in NE, he was bad to meh. Did have Mac Jones looking decent though.

But, analogous to McDermott's insistence on DL rotation - if a guy knows he's only gonna be in for a play or two then out, he can go differently than if he's playing every snap. And not sure I agree at all "worst game ever" or even "worst game since he became a starter last year"

Thanks for your explanation! I wouldn't pretend to know what position Bernard was supposed to be in, in zone coverage. I don't have the "key" to the Bills coverage rules. What I saw, especially in the first half, was that the Bills defense as a whole was having success in containing Jackson and Henry - 73 yds on 18 plays was not where the Ravens hoped to be IMO. I thought the Bills did a good job adjusting pre-snap to give themselves success and it seemed clear Bernard was the chief conductor there. I also thought the Bills used multiple guys at the point of attack to compensate for the likelihood that our LB might not be able to shed behemoths like Ricard. Cover1 breaks some of those down I think. In the second half, I thought the Bills wore down, including Bernard. It didn't help a bit that our first 2 offensive possessions were 3 and out then 6 and out. I thought the whole D started to look flat. As a friend said once about a rock singer who came to a sad end, "that's what you get when you take a 60 watt singer and run him at 350W for a few years". At the end of the day, physics is undefeated. I got no quarrel with calling him the 2nd best LB on the field to Milano. I thought Milano looked closer than ever to his old self and just hope his trip to the Blue Tent wasn't anything serious, along with Bernard's trip and the shots of him using the Theragun on the sidelines. As far as Dorian Williams, the guy only played 24 snaps. When you got a guy who is playing Left Bench 60% of the snaps against a physical, large offense like the Ravens, comparing him to a guy who is on the field Every Defensive Snap is a rigged comparison IMO. May your beers be ever tasty and tinged with lime (if that's what you prefer)