Beck Water

It's the base, not the "up to" that I'll be wanting to see. If he's got a 1k year left in him, when is it going to emerge? It's been in there incubating since 2019, while he's been chugging along at 35-45 catches for 500-ish yards since Cleveland

Again, I'm not all up in the details of it, but there has been all sorts of skeevy business going on in the PSE front office from Russ Brandon, to Ron Raccuia, to John Roth and Kathryn D'Angelo being fired last Fall for being unable to keep their Bowsers Truckled. As I recall there was a shakeup and John Roth was brought on board in January 2023. Jessica Pegula's Players Tribune article was published February 7th. Unclear to me when her husband was fired. But the thing is, if the Pegulas had a culture of "lifers" as the Bills had under Wilson, it would stand out that someone close to the family got fired. As it is, it seems as though the business side of the Bills and Sabres has lived in a constant state of churn especially the last couple of years. Whether it's well-needed churn or destructive churn, I couldn't tell you. Taylor Gahagen was probably fired for cause, not just let go given the choice of words - but whether it was because Jessica and he are now "outlaws" to the Pegula family (as Graham implies) or because he was felt to be doing a poor job (maybe too much time jetting about to his wife's matches and not enough minding the business?) or because, in a culture where bousers seem to be untruckled all over the place, maybe his also unfastened Unless proven otherwise I think it's more likely than not that: 1) Jessica wouldn't have written that article for the Player's Tribune without at least running it by her siblings and father. So I don't think publishing that somehow cast her out of the fold 2) her husband's firing is most likely related to his OTJ performance and churn in the Pegula business offices Remember, Tim Graham is seeking clicks and subscribers for the Athletic, so it's in his interest to sensationalize where he can

Laura Pegula is 41 - not exactly a fossil. If I were guessing, my guess would be that the kids from the 1st marriage kept their distance from the Bills, regardless of interest, while the 2nd wife was the Face of the Front Office, and she not unnaturally probably wanted her kids to follow in her footsteps. Now that the 2nd wife is out of the picture, the kids from the 1st marriage may be saying "hey - we were here first, we have priority over your 3rd born who is off playing high level tennis, not grinding in your businesses as we've been doing"

I mean you can suggest it, I won't pillory you - as was pointed out up-thread, the Bills and Milano have both been un-forthcoming with details of his injury, and the upper range of the RTP time presented by BangedUpBills would put him returning in early September. I just don't think signing a guy who was a very good linebacker in his day, but was a vet minimum player who started the season on practice squad for Carolina last season is particularly interesting or out of line. It seems like SOP to me - try to grab some quality vets who can compete for spots at the back of the roster. We'll have Jones competing with Morrow and Spector for the backup Mike, and Morrow competing with Williams for the backup OLB. Ulofoshio's shot at the roster is on ST. We normally carry 6 LB on the roster and we carried 9 LB into camp last season.

Agree that the full picture of why the Bills called Klein is more nuanced than I presented, but I think the point stands that the Bills went into the season presenting Dodson and Spector as a serious options at MLB. Early in the season, when we were ahead in a couple games they pulled Bernard and Milano for Dodson and Williams. When Bernard went down vs Cincinnati, I believe they tried Williams rather than Spector (Dodson was already playing for Milano). I guess one can argue against shifting position on 2 guys, though the Bills have cheerfully done that on OL before. I just don't think they were comfortable with Dodson at MLB to start Klein at MLB ahead of him vs. KC, and certainly not comfortable with any of the rest of their depth - Matakevich, Spector, Williams. So I think it's a valid point that they acknowledge their LB depth needed overhaul, even though, overall, I agree with you that if they could have kept Dodson they would have.

Kirby, Kirby, Kirby. I can go with you that it's more important to have top starting WR than to have top starting off-ball LB. The fact that the Bills were able to splice together an adequate Milano replacement from a combo of Dodson, Poyer, and Rapp that allowed them to have a sound defense speaks to that. "INFINITELY" in all caps? Mmmmm I think what the Bills defense looked like in the playoffs while we were playing The Ghost of AJ Klein and One Winged Dodson, would show that's not true. So you're upset because the Bills valued a potential backup LB and STer over a WR drafted 24 slots later (meaning 2/3 of the league didn't see him as "significant snaps with upside") and 56 slots later (meaning all of the league didn't see him as "significant snaps with upside" and then again 2/3 again)? Mmmm Ok, if those guys turn into Puka Nacua or even play significant snaps for Miami and Dallas, I will come back here and give you your props. I think the Cold Hard Football Facts are that a backup LB who plays ST is more likely to play meaningful snaps this season, especially with the Bills having moved on from 2 ST stalwarts at LB. And if the Bills are counting on a 6th round rookie WR for significant snaps with upside, then we really haven't done enough to address WR. Which actually, I'm concerned about, but I can't get all fluffy about taking a LB over a WR late in the 5th.

You're likely correct that other things being equal, the Bills would have preferred to bring Dodson and Jackson back, because the Bills do love to hang on to their backups and STers and McDermott values continuity and leadership. But Beane and McDermott have also promoted the idea that their backup LB can step in and start - 'next man up'. And clearly, the Bills didn't have faith in Dodson as an MLB, or they wouldn't have persuaded Klein to park his RV and hop on a plane. When you have 4 backup LBs, two of them seasoned vets, and the answer to injury is "platoon the role" or "bring in a guy off the couch", I think it can be argued you need change at the backup LB position. And I think McDermott and Beane must realize that. I would argue that showed a different path at vet backup was needed. And at least on paper, Morrow looks like an upgrade - a guy who has had the green dot on his helmet in games, a low-end starter, but willing to play ST - potentially closer to what AJ Klein was in 2020/2021 when he was ahead of Dodson on the depth chart. Dodson wasn't getting vet min from the Bills, BTW - $2.1M, fully guaranteed. Matakevich was getting $2.5M, also fully guaranteed. Dane Jackson, also $2.1M IT's not like any one of these salaries is exorbitant, but one argument about the Bills cap management is that they've been spreading a lot of their cap out to backups and ST guys. That's served the Bills well in a lot of ways, but then Beane tells us he's not able to add top FA at edge and WR. It may be something Beane needs to do differently to get over the top is be willing to "churn" a bit more and have less seasoned players or vets like Morrow

Pretty much, This

TF are the Chargers up to? They trade away Keenan Allen for a 4th round pick after a 1200+ yd 100+ catch season, and spend $5M to sign this guy? They did double-dip on WR in the draft though, so that should make their fans all happy! Pretty much, This Pretty much, This

I hear you on discounting statements made by players, but Milano seems cut from a different mold - Mr Minimalist in what he says to the press and how often. He's not a Von Miller offering to do a presser while he's only just been designated to return, and taking up a roster spot before he's really able to play effectively. Milano is Mr 'Time Will Tell'. Of course, being able to do his normal off- season training and being able to play at an all-pro level, are two different things, I grant that. So I may read too much into it. As far as timeline/coordinates, have you seen this Banged Up Bills article? https://bangedupbills.com/2023/10/09/examining-buffalo-bills-matt-milanos-right-knee-injury/ The median "lost time" is 232 days; the upper range 330 days. That would put him somewhere between end of May (232 days) and beginning of September (330 days). He mentions a couple of other cases: Of course, there are different degrees and locations of the fracture, and that impacts the length of healing, but it's very positive that Milano was seen on the sidelines moving around and even jumping up and down a bit. As I understand it, the big concern with any fracture is nonunion, where the bones simply don't heal for whatever reason (and sometimes unpredictably). That doesn't seem to be at issue here.

I tend to agree. The wild card is how well McDermott thinks Dorian Williams will come along this season - could he play for Milano if need be? If that's the belief, then yeah, OK, they could still be concerned about Milano and yet only sign some depth. I think Morrow and Jones could make it to the 53. Milano, Williams, Bernard, Morrow, Ulofoshio, Jones. We normally carry 6. I do think Jones isn't a lock and is going to be battling it out with Spector.

I tend to agree. The wild card is how well McDermott thinks Dorian Williams will come along this season - could he play for Milano if need be? If that's the belief, then yeah, OK, they could still be concerned about Milano and yet only sign some depth. I think Morrow and Jones could make it to the 53. Milano, Williams, Bernard, Morrow, Ulofoshio, Jones. We normally carry 6. I do think Jones isn't a lock and is going to be battling it out with Spector.

It's possible. Last year, Hamlin was probably a better safety and not as good ST guy as Zane Anderson coming out of camp, better choice than Jared Mayden or Dean Marlowe but that's a low bar. This year we have Rapp and Edwards, we just drafted Bishop in the 2nd so I think he's a lock....I don't know. I guess I'm hoping we make another move at Safety to bring in someone good, but, if we think our starting safeties are some mixture of Rapp, Edwards and Bishop, maybe we roll with Lewis as a backup, maybe we keep both Lewis and Hamlin. I think it's possible we roll with Lewis as our 4th backup Safety, and keep Hardy on the 53 man roster as a punt returner and wasn't it said he could play slot corner?

Good shot at it Small nit you by DT Jonathan, I assume you mean Kingsley Jonathan. He's a DE. Couple of quick comments: Hamler I think has returned like, 2 or 3 punts his rookie year. When he has more years in the league than punt returns, I don't think he's our PR. The Smurf CB we drafted (Hardy) has punt returner and gunner experience, so there's that. And of course.....Coleman can return punts. heh.

I think it's probable that Beane/the Bills value Shorter, Shavers, Thompson, Isabella, and /or Hamler more highly than any of the receivers available from late Round 4 on. Thing is, Hamler has been "that guy" who makes ya wonder if Doug Whaley was right when he said the human body just isn't made to play football. So I don't think the Bills are counting on him. Or maybe I just hope the Bills aren't counting on him.

European or African?

Deion is formerly an excellent LB who struggled with injuries at the beginning of the 2022 season, and as a result is down to signing 1 year contracts, vet min last year, probably vet min this year or even VSB. He started the 2023 season on the Panthers practice squad. Brings us to 8 LB plus a rookie camp tryout. We just signed Quintez Cephus, a guy who played 3 years for Detroit with some nice catches, got spanked by Goodell and out of football for a year, probably similar vet minimum. We currently have what, 11 WR on the roster? We took 13 into camp least season, I believe, so expect a couple more. I'd like to see the Bills make a swing for a quality guy by trade or FA signing, but I don't think we're likely to see any more significant moves until after June 1 when Tre White's money comes off our cap But we're likely to continue to add vets here and there for depth.

OK, Fair. We don't know what we don't know. Matt Milano probably even doesn't know if he'll start the season in All-Pro form. But Deion Jones, who signed a vet minimum deal with Carolina last season, is not being brought in as a potential Milano replacement. He's here as depth, on the wager that even at age 30 and having dropped off significantly, he might still be a better defensive player than 33 year old AJ Klein or 32 year old Tyler Matakevich. It was 9 last year over the summer. Matt Milano, Terrel Bernard, Tyrel Dodson, Dorian Williams, Tyler Matakevich, Baylon Spector Cuts were Travin Howard, DaShaun White, AJ Klein. We currently have Milano, Bernard, Williams, Spector, Morrow, Jones, Olofoshio, and I think one UDFA signing. That's like 8. Pro football reference still lists Tyler Matakevich on the Bills 2024 roster but I'm pretty sure that's just wrong, everyplace else says he's a FA.

We normally carry 6 LB on the roster and bring 9 or so into camp That's NORMALLY. Check it out https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-buffalo-bills-53-man-roster-roster-cuts-brandon-beane-nfl/ People aren't always aware because Dodson and Matekevich primarly played teams and had been hanging out as depth 4-Ev-Ah

For the love of God can the posters on TBD stop squealing about CaroLove every time the Bills sign a player who had some association with Carolina? The Bills aren't signing Deion Jones because he most recently played for Carolina. The Bills are signing him because he was a damned fine MLB for Atlanta for 6 years and while he's probably no longer a Beast in the Middle, he's an upgrade on Tyler Matakevich and AJ Klein. The fact that his most recent year was with Carolina is immaterial beyond Beane maybe called Dan Morgan to see if he could get some inside scoop on him, as he would call any FO guy he knew when a player had missed games with injury.

Well, let me put it to you in a different light. Beane has said that the last game the team plays tends to showcase the weaknesses. What happened in the last, the last 2 games really, that the team played? 1) we had inadequate LB depth - Milano had already been lost to the season. Tyrel Dodson, who replaced him platooning with Poyer, was lost halfway through the final regular season game. Terrel Bernard was lost halfway through the WC playoff. So we platooned AJ Klein, Dorian Williams, and Baylon Spector during the Pittsburgh game after Bernard went out, then Klein, 1-armed Dodson, and Dorian Williams vs KC. Let's just say, "It didn't work". 2) our WR were getting out-physicaled by the KC LB and DB. I'm not sure who it was but I literally saw one of our receivers shoved like 3 yards off his route - all legal and within 5 yds of the LOS Basically, McDermott and Beane were forced to acknowledge that 31 yr old Matekevich was 100% there for ST at this point, that they couldn't count on Dodson or Spector to back up Bernard at MLB, and maybe Dorian Williams will develop but he's not there yet. So Dodson and Matekevich are gone. That left our LB corps at Milano, Bernard, Williams, Spector, Morrow, and who? We usually have 6. I don't think they want to count on a late 5th round rookie; if he can beat someone out, great, if not, he can sit on the practice squad. Even if they 100% count on the return of Milano (and in one of his brief press interactions, Milano said that his recovery was on track and he would have a normal off-season; he strode into the building for OTAs like a man on a mission), the Bills badly need adequate depth at LB, that is an upgrade to Matekevich, Dodson, Klein, Spector, and Williams. Morrow started in Chicao 2 yrs ago and Philly last year; he also played teams. It's been 3 years since Deion Jones started in Atlanta, but he played about 1/3 of the defensive snaps for Carolina last season and more for Cleveland the year before (after an early stint on IR). Now Spector and Williams may take a step, not saying they can't especially rookie Williams. But if they don't, Beane is a Man with a Plan. None of us want to see AJ Klein walk out on the field at MLB next to Tyrell Dodson for a playoff game, and that includes Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott.

You make an excellent point, but part of being a 'quality' NFL WR or CB is having that swagger, that self confidence. I think a quality FA WR looks at our roster and goes - "Huh. Rookie who ran a 4.6 40 and can't separate. Two 600 yd slot guys. Couple tight ends, I'm a receiver, don't compare me to a TE, that's offensive (channeling Beas there). Career journeyman ST guy. Imma walk to the head of that class, no problem!" I'm not saying that to diss off Coleman Curtis Samuel Hollins Kincaid or Knox. I think they're all capable of more if Brady designs a good offense. I'm just saying if I were a quality FA WR I would not look at myself as coming here to be #6. Even Mack Hollins, career journeyman, was quoted as saying last year “I mean, the No. 1 spot is up and I’ll go for it,” Hollins said after a recent practice. “Drake is my roommate. He gets no free days. Every spot in my mind and every receiver’s mind is up for grabs. Just because he got a nice signing bonus, there’s no free lunches around here. No free lunches.” Do you think Diggs moved to Houston saying "oh, Nico Collins, 108 targets, 1297 yards, I don't know how I'll get my bag behind him". Hell no. Diggs flew down there saying "you the little dog, now the Big Dog come." He might be mistaken, but that's what's in his head, in any quality WR head.

I don't think he's listening to you. Didn't you want him to bring you Odunze?

Have we had this one yet? https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39639715/keon-coleman-florida-state-wr-combine-scenes-nfl-draft

I'm with you until you got to $6M on 1 year for MVS. You do realize MVS caught 21 passes for 315 yds last season, playing 58% of the snaps in 16 games and with Patrick Mahomes as his QB? It's like the "Inverse New York New York" - "If you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere" Chark had more snaps, yards, and receptions, he was behind Thielen, and he had a rookie QB throwing to him, so I see his 35 receptions/525 yds as more excuseable. but....... His last contract, coming off 30 receptions for 502 yds, was 1 yr/$5M fully guaranteed, in part because he missed 6 games with an ankle injury so might have done more if he stayed healthy. Well, he "stayed healthy" but didn't do too much more in Carolina, so I don't know if he's washed, or it was playing with a rookie, or ?? I don't think he's a $6M guy to Beane. I think a difference is that through it all, Mahomes had his security blanket receiver TE Travis Kelce OK, so what is the difference between regular season games where our D gets stops against Mahomes, vs playoffs? Looking at the list of starters in the box score might possibly provide a clue.