Beck Water

In general for Diggs 4 years here, no, it's not a controversial claim. I think it might be a controversial claim for the second half of last season. And I asked if you had them, because you seem so very confident in your statements in the face of observations like Sneed;s [EDIT: this was actually Justin Reid's comment] "we didn't double him"; Sauce on Shakir in the clip linked above; Cosell's comments. If I could readily find them myself, I woudn't ask. I daresay some here will "shoot the messenger" but while he didn't provide stats on who was covering him and how, the somewhat controversial Tim Graham delved into a bunch of stuff about depth of target etc here https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5174435/2024/01/03/stefon-diggs-buffalo-bills-snap-counts-targets-analysis/ Sal Maiorana pointed out Diggs catch rates against top corners were abysmal at the end of the season

I've been trying to stay out of this, but this deserves mention 1) for those who don't follow jersey numbers, in the film clip above, that was Sauce Gardner covering Shakir. Not sure who was covering Diggs, believe a LB 2) I don't have data on how often receivers were double covered and whether it was the #1 or #2 CB covering them last season - do you? I would love to see those data if so 3) no doubt at all that Diggs drew the #1 CB who often had help for much of his 4 years in B'lo. The point of contention is: was that true at the end of the 2022 season, and even more so was it true specifically at the end of 2023? Say, week -see point 1 above, this was Nov 19 Jets game, Sauce was on Shakir -in the KC game Dec 10, Sneed commented in a response to Diggs interview saying he didn't contribute because he was being doubled, by saying "funny thing is we didn't double him". Sneed was def. covering Diggs part of the time, not sure he was shadowing him, seems like he was covering other receivers at times. Diggs was 4 of 11 in that game. 4) NFL flims senior producer Greg Cosell, who has forgotten more about football than almost everyone here knows, made the comment that Diggs wasn't the Bills #1 at the end of last season and broke down a film clip where he referred to Khalil Shakir as "the new #1" TL;DR I'm not sure it's true that Diggs was shadowed, drew the #1 CB, or was doubled with a safety over the top all that much by the end of last season. These ought to be verifiable facts, but I don't have a source for these data - do you? Caveat: the point could be made that we didn't have a lot of passing game by the end of last season, either.

Tyler Bass. He went from Bass-O-Matic to Bass-Turd in one season. Runner up: Chase Claypool. If he could return to the form he had his first 2 seasons with Pitts, that would be big,

This is a point worth delving into. I'd love to see some data on how Diggs was covered the last 2 seasons, especially in the 2nd half of the year and the playoffs. There's no question in 2020 and 2021 Diggs drew double coverage and sometimes more.

The phrase "manage expectations" in the business world refers to the expectations of others that the writer is trying to manage. Saying "Beane has been trying to manage expectations" is not referring to Beane's expectations. It's the expectations of people listening to his interview - the fans - I'm talking about. In interviews since OTAs, Beane is clearly trying to temper the Coleman Hype Train that has left Highmark station and gathered speed, driven in part by the PR apparatus of the organization he works for (as shown by the $40 shirt @BADOLBILZ observed), in the probably vain hope that the fans won't toss around the "bust" word if Coleman doesn't produce 4-5 R/G for 50 Y/G right out the gate. Whether that's on general principal, or whether it's because having seen Coleman in the building trying to run their plays he now knows it's gonna be a project, can't tell ya. Since you ask, my opinion of Beane's personal expectations for how much Coleman will play: I think Beane expects him to play A Lot. Beane has influence on the amount of playing time Coleman will see in the form of the alternatives he signs at WR and thus makes available to the coaches. The WR cupboard is pretty bare, so the pressure is "on" the coaches to put Coleman out on the field, ready or not. Beane also knows that overall, his "hit rate" on players drafted in the 1st 2 rounds making a solid contribution their rookie year is a bit over 50%, even when the player develops into a solid contributor by year 2 or 3. That's about league average or a little less, but for a different reason. For many teams, it's because the guy can't adjust to play at the NFL level or doesn't have his head in the right place once he Gets Paid. For Beane, it's because he tries to compensate for late draft position by gambling on high-ceiling low-floor kind of guys, guys like Rousseau or Coleman who have lots of physical talent but actually rather limited football playing experience.

Purple Drank https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10038265-former-raiders-qb-jamarcus-russell-says-he-used-codeine-syrup-to-deal-with-injuries Snap

Beane didn't "more or less" say Coleman was going to be the X, he flat out said we see him as our X. However, as OTAs progress and the Coleman hype train gathers momentum, it's been notable that Beane has been trying to "manage expectations", talking about how young he is (I had Edmunds flashbacks), "he’s going to have bumps in the road. He’s a rookie, and I think we all need to understand that." I believe he's also said some stuff about having other guys in the room who can do it if the rookies can't right away. I think there are two separate issues perhaps being conflated a bit here. One is Beane/McDermott's expectations: yes, they expect Coleman to play, but Beane is also giving off vibes he's not going out there for a lion's share of the snaps no matter what, he's got to master the playbook and earn his playing time. I don't think he's hyping him as Diggs successor. Instead Brady is talking about spreading the ball around. The other is the Coleman Hype Train. We have an off season devoid of significant free agent moves, where the team's biggest offensive weapon for the last 4 years (outside QB) got unceremoniously traded and not clearly replaced. Then we have our top draft pick turn out to be a Goldmine for sound bites. So yeah, the Biols PR is running with him and he's getting hyped up a bunch in the press. Maybe he's getting up-sold as Diggs successor, but I don't hear that as coming from Beane or McDermott. From the Bills PR side of things, I think it's more he's enormously personable and a great interview and Beane didn't give them much of anyone else to talk about. TL;DR two separate issues here: 1) How Beane and McDermott see Coleman's contributions year one and how they present him to the press 2) How the Bills PR machine and press are hyping him up

The 5th year option for a WR can be a valuable tool, especially with a player who may be slower to develop so the team isn't quite ready to bet a market rate 2nd contract on him going into his 4th season. But, what people who whinge about it aren't considering, is the cost-controlled contracts of the players we were able to draft because of the trade- backs. We didn't have a 3rd round pick, and we had multiple 6th round picks. We got a 3rd round pick, and we moved way up in the 5th. With those picks, we drafted DT DeWayne Carter and C Sedrick Van Pran. If either of those guys work out for us long-term, that value needs to be factored in.

I'm sure when he was married, he never took his supermodel wife to any social events or did tropical vacations with his family He has a golf handicap of 9 due to natural talent But he played catch with MVS at "some high school" after he came off the green! If that's not commitment, what is?

Players are required to be available to the media. They are not required to talk to the media, nor are they required to give podium interviews. The Bills are asked if specific players can be made available to the media, and the Bills can and do decline (the assumption being they usually ask the player). Von didn't have to "get interviewed weekly". It was his choice. Usually the players who are interviewed are the ones who have made strong contributions to the team that week. He said it himself - he didn't want to "sacrifice any of his years" and he wanted to be out there. So, if he's out there on the field, fans (and coaches! he was inactive one game!) are going to judge him by the "product on the field". That seems like common sense to me, if you're intent on going there. What else are they going to judge him on? His domestic relationships? Allen "gets it" - he comes out of a game where he played like crap and he doesn't say "my shoulder was hurting like hell and pain is screwing with my mechanics and I shouldn't have been out there because I really need to rest and let it heal, ", he says "I played like crap and I have to play better" Look, I hope Von Miller has a great season. I hope he wins Comeback Player of the Year though, I'd settle for just 2023 Leonard Floyd quality contributions but lasting throughout the season. But let's not re-define words like "common sense" to mean "how dare fans judge me on the quality of my on-field performance for which I carried a $7.9M cap hit last season!"

I don't need to let a thing go.... You made a point that Von didn't deserve the hate he got for LY. I get your point about the confidence/bravado just being part of who Von is. But at the same time, when a guy goes public with it, he's got to know that fans will keep receipts if his mouth makes a promise that his body can't keep. I don't blame Von for tallking, but my point is he drew the reaction with his own actions (getting out there and talking)

Thanks for clarifying your point being that players don't go from being one type of player to a completely different type of player. I do agree that in general, that's true. And, for example, Zay Jones draft profile comments that his high receptions and yardage were due more to scheme and targets than ability to uncover (separation ability and speed). I will confess that I kind of laid a trail, though. For example, Bernard's draft profile by Zierlein considers him as "Undersized sub-package nickel linebacker with special-teams value on the next level....lacks the desired frame and play strength" Bleacher report says "Bernard projects best as a weak-side linebacker." Can't find a soul who said "This kid projects as a MLB in the NFL" much less "Yeah, this kid's gonna shine as the MLB on a winning team and make fans say "Tremaine Who?" Honestly, though, I do see your point that Zay Jones from the point where he was drafted, never looked like a true boundary, downfield receiving option who can win against man. As far as "this is the first time since then".....I dunno...he was fast before he lost his burst after the ankle injuries, but did you really see John Brown as that true downfield threat? He could be taken away so easily by physical play and didn't always run crisp routes, especially late in the game. And I think some guys who love film (Cosell) thought Diggs wasn't that guy either, by 2022, that he was putting up great #s because we were force-feeding him. Whereas, both MVS and, in his first 2 years in the league, Claypool, do legit have the downfield threat chops....they have big ????s Claypool because of his head, and MVS because of his hands, but if we're talking "type of player", that is their jam. '

Cabo. At Kyle Allen's wedding to Summer Juraczek - Britt Williams bestie. https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/buffalo-bills/josh-allen-hailee-steinfeld-kyle-allen-wedding-photos-reaction/ https://spicysighs.tumblr.com/post/754226975519981568/hailee-steinfeld-josh-allen-attending-a-wedding Britt Williams also attended "putting it out there" Next up, Dawson Knox (sorry @muppy, he's gonna be officially off the market, like, this week)

I have to disagree here. The difference is the talkin'. Tre' did not take the media spotlight. He kept his head down and kept grinding. (and to be fair, I believe the Bills drafted Elam to fill in, and activated Tre' earlier than they should have because Elam wasn't cuttin' the mustard) Tre' didn't give press conferences talking about how he would be ready at the start of the season, then about how he wanted to play in London and was ready, then on and on. If Von kept his head down and just kept grinding, he woudn't have nearly so much hate. I thought we signed Leonard Floyd as a Von replacement, and he did give us 10.5 sacks and 32 tackles (though he fell off at the end of the season) No one would be happier than I to see Von play a full season for the Bills and contribute 10-12 sacks.

I think that's actually a fair assessment. And then it's fair to ask "why do the Bills fans on this board not trust the GM and coaches?" Different folks probably have different answers. Some just don't trust them globally, either never have or 13 seconds did it. My basis for lack of trust is, I don't trust them because based on results, 1) they didn't do enough to replace Brown/Sanders and Beasley in 2022 and 2023 2) the OL in 2018 was totally inadequate, and Beane acknowledged after the season that he was cap-strapped but "could have done more and should have done more" 3) same for WR corps in 2017 after we moved on from Woods, Goodwin, and Watkins - I understand moving on from that little robber Goodwin and from Watkins, but a 2nd round draft pick in 2017 and then a 6th rounder in 2018 was simply not enough along with some geriatric FA signings like Anquan Boldin and Andre Holmes and don't get me started on Corey Coleman or Terrele Pryor. In short, the FO and coaches have lost my trust as a fan where WR is concerned based on past history of trying to sell fans inadequate investment and underperforming players as sufficient at that position. I concede that there is potential in the room as far as two homegrown players who took a big step last season and may be capable of another (Kincaid and Shakir), a player who has contributed to SB teams (MVS), a player who turned in back to back decent seasons with Big Ben throwing to him and Diontae Johnson ahead of him but has mucked up his career with his head (Claypool), a 2nd round rookie who has a high ceiling but is raw, and a solid NFL-level slot in Samuel. But it's all "perhaps...perhaps...perhaps" as Doris Day said.

I guess my point is... OK, tell the truth...what did you think of Terrel Bernard when he played for Milano in the 11-6-20 close loss to the Jets? I had an opinion based on that, and never in 1000 years did I expect what we saw from him last season. There's also Shakir, I thought he took a huge step last season. You do You, but professional scouts and coaches watching a player in his rookie year may be totally mistaken about what his ceiling is, so, if you are so clear on that from one season of a player....should you be? No argument at all that the WR going into 2018 was putrid (and 2017 was no better for that matter) , but of course the idea in 2017 was to run the wheels off McCoy and dump off to Charles Clay, and I think McDermott and Beane's expectation going into 2018 was similar. The problem, of course, was 1) the OL was much worse and couldn't run block worth *****, and 2) that apparently wasn't Daboll's idea

I mean, Von has been "talking the talk" since he was activated before the Jags game, played 20 snaps, and contributed Nada. In 14 subsequent games, he contributed 5 tackles, 2 QB hits, and 0 sacks. My take is "shut up and show me, Von".

How very percipient of you It's a large step in talent and quite likely scheme complexity from East Carolina to the NFL, it's not unheard of for a player to take a year to adjust.

I dunno about "bubble wrap", but I personally don't care how they look in preseason; bring them along slowly and shut them down if they're injured, I say. We've seen that guy who looked fantastic in pre-season then lasted about 10 snaps into the regular season in the past

Eh. -One WR who has ever caught a regular season pass, but 3 returning receivers with the TE. -Rapp was here last season and played 16 games and 42% of the defensive snaps - when he played, they used Rapp as a safety in Poyer's role and rotated Poyer up into the box as a "dime"- type to take on coverage responsibilities Dodson, playing for Milano, couldn't handle. We also have Cam Lewis and Damar Hamlin as backup safeties who know the system. -The offensive coordinator was here last season and was interim OC for 9 games with a 7-2 record (one OT loss) -The defensive coordinator was here last season and thoroughly familiar with the system The WR corps is inexperienced and I'm less than thrilled with the quality safeties, but I think too much is being made of the "new blood". New blood can be helpful, too.

You're Too Much, you really are. First you want to argue that 2017 had a better group because "Matthews had better recent seasons" in 2017 than any WR on our roster now. OK, as far as "recent seasons" of 2015 and 2016, Fair. He had a 997 and an 804 yd season in 2015 and 2016 with Sam Bradford/Marc Sanchez and then rookie Carson Wentz throwing to him, and he was their best WR (though far from their only quality target - they had Ertz) There's a valid point about needing more than one quality target that you skate by, but let it go for now... You then turn around and focus, not on recent seasons, but on "pedigree". What about "recent seasons"? They don't matter now when "pedigree" serves your point? In the year I mentioned (2010), Evans recent season was 16 games, 44 receptions, 612 yds and that's ~ the level he achieved in 2010 as well. If we're gonna extoll "pedigree", then let's talk about Valdez-Scantling's 2020 season where he led the league with 20.9 Y/R and racked up 33 receptions for 690 yds, and Chase Claypool's "pedigree" of 62 receptions, 873 yds in 2020 and 59 receptions for 860 yds in 2021. Impressive! Oh, not so much? Yeah, because "pedigree" doesn't matter. The NFL isn't about "pedigree", it's about "what have you done lately?"

Yeah, that was bad. Charles Clay and Shady McCoy were our leading receivers that year in targets, receptions, and yards. Thompson was our leading WR overall with 430 yds, despite only suiting up for 11 Bills games Of course, our offensive plan going into 2017 was apparently "run Shady McCoy until his wheels fall off" #4 for rushing attempts, #6 for yards.

When I was thinking "no way is this the worst group", I was thinking more going into 2010 with Stevie Johnson, Lee Evans, Roscoe Parrish, and Donald Jones. Yeah, Johnson had a great season - 82 receptions for 1073 yds - but his previous best season was 10 receptions for 102 yds. Prior to the season it was like, "Lee Evans and who?" Parrish was like, 5 years of "meh". The Goonies, as they called themselves. Pretty sure if I thought about it a minute I could come up with a few more examples. 2018 we actually had a 2nd rounder in his 2nd year in Zay Jones, who had shown flashes as well as drops, and a former 1st rounder in Benjamin who had been playing hurt the previous season (knee) and we hoped would show out in his 5th year in search of a big contract

It's a step down, but the weakest WR group "on paper" in the last 40 years? Nah Not even close. C'mon man. This. Curtis Samuel is a proven, dependable NFL-quality receiving option. He's not peak Stefon Diggs, and a person should be able to acknowledge this without having it twisted as "Samuel sucks".

Not arguing anything Some people do consider "holding them to a fieldgoal" to be a form defensive stop. We've all heard Josh Allen after a tough loss attribute it to "they held us to FG. we need to score TD". You might consider a hobby?