Beck Water

Listed as 6'4"

I tend to think of Mack Hollins as this year's Jake Kumerow or Trent Sherfield - the #5 or #6 WR who is primarily there for ST but can hopefully play well enough to give the starter a breather or fill in for injury. In terms of receiving chops, though, I don't ever remember Kumerow or Sherfield "going off" with the 1s like this. Maybe I just don't remember

So what's up with all the route jumping? Are our DBs just really familiar with our playbook or are we too predictable in what we're running? One thing it seems to me from the clips and reports we see, is more receivers willing to climb the latter or dive or reach for balls.

At this point, no, don't think so. I mean we're seeing AJE with the 2's and etc so But I do think there is some issue, either MVS isn't getting into the playbook like he needs to or is taking his position a bit for granted - I mean, Keon wasn't here when they were putting in some parts of the offense back at the start of OTAs, right, OTAs before draft? I'm with you, when a guy has nothing but bad luck on injuries but keeps fighting you really want to see things turn for him.

LOL there was an exchange on "4th and Forever" with Mark Sanchez and Josh where Josh talked about how his feet run cold, and in cold weather when his center steps on his foot it "doesn't feel too good". Sanchez immediately asked "who's fault was it?" and Josh was like "um" Sanchez said "it has to be your fault, right?" Josh goes "yeah, it was my fault. Mitch Morse. Love ya Mitch!" It doesn't come across typing it out, but watching it was like "QB Code" where they both knew "it has to be said to be the QB's fault even if it wasn't"

I saw that. The thing is, Josh will always claim responsibility where he can and say "I have to play better" "I have to find a way to get him the ball" He's never gonna say "receiver made a mistake and ran the wrong route" or "he's got to get open" Some of the shotgun snaps that were bad, were reportedly dribblers along the turf that Josh had to scoop up. There is no way that's on Josh.

Eh. This season's Christian Kirksey

If you say so, I guess. "Last October, I didn't hear anyone talking about how drafting Terrel Bernard was a bad move" "Oh yeah? Here's my receipt from Draft Day 2022 showing I thought so" "But...." "Take the L" This isn't rocket science. Yes, everyone including you thought Diggs relationship with Allen and with the Bills was broken around the time of his non-appearance at Day 1 Mandatory Minicamp (June 13, the date of the quote you provided) Then, after Diggs was a Good Boy in training camp, talked to the media, and came into the season hot for the first 6 weeks, I didn't hear anyone still expressing that opinion. Including you, though I would change that view based on evidence *from that time*. If you want me to give you a "W" for claiming you were silently chanting "Diggs is trying to force his way off the team and the Diggs-Allen relationship is irredeemably broken" through the first 6 weeks of the 2023 season, As You Wish

Looks like $1.6M - his signing bonus plus $600k of his salary or something. But keep in mind Bernard pulled a hammy and wasn't available much of training camp but then made it through the season and into the playoffs. So I don't think you can project from training camp/preseason, when teams try to make sure players hit starting day healthy.

Meaning no offense, but the ask was specifically the first 6 weeks of the 2023 season, not the day of the minicamp broo-ha-ha when we all had fresh evidence something was up with Diggs and a lot of people felt some way about it. But after that, Diggs showed up at training camp, talked to the media, and generally behaved himself, then played football at a high level for 6 weeks, and again - not to pick on you specifically, but I heard a whole lot of "nothin" about Diggs trying to force his way off the team, pumping up other team's QB, calling Allen out etc. So if you have receipts of stating this opinion at that time frame of the first 3rd of the season, I will be happy to eat my crow.

This really resonated with me. At one point in my professional career, I was hired into a position of leadership over, among others, a man literally old enough to be my father and one of the more idiosyncratic "march to your own drummer" people I've ever met. When there were new policies, just like your buds, they would argue. We worked it out eventually, but it was a tricky balance between building a friendly relationship, commanding respect, and laying it down policies had to be followed. I'm one who thinks that Diggs and Allen were never true "best friends"; I think they have very different interests and that was to a degree, a media storyline. But they did, for real, have 2.75 highly successful years together. When Diggs joined the team, Allen was a 3rd year player who hadn't broken 59% completions and who averaged less than 200 passing YPG. Diggs was a 6th year player who had 2 consecutive >1000 yd seasons and had played in a conference championship. Dawkins wrote about Diggs how he went to watch him work out with the attitude "Alright, new guy. What you got." and came away saying "Legit had no idea people could be this good at football." So yeah, in 2020 and 2021 Allen was working with 3 WR who had more experience and accomplishments in the league than he, and it was probably not a bad thing for him to listen to them more than he tried to correct them. But you're right, in the end, sometimes they needed to be told "hey, you rounded that route, if you made a sharp cut you'd be open" "you need to run that route like you mean it, not take the play off" etc. and since Allen started out playing the "little brother" role, it was likely hard to make that transition to saying "you - listen up! you want success, this is what I need from you."

Day summary from Cover1, apologies if I missed it above https://www.cover1.net/greg-rousseau-and-terrel-bernard-stand-out-in-physical-day-5-practice/ He speaks what several here have commented: He's absolutely right, for me. McGovern does not have to really worry about getting his block knocked off by opposing DLmen at this point, until today no pads even - this doesn't seem like a "my fault" issue as Allen will say, his snaps are off-target or dribblers Allen has to scoop up. I started out nervous about this change and I'm not getting less nervous.

ALLinALLEN, with respect, "3 years removed from an AP season" doesn't mean very much, especially when it also means a football player is 3 years removed from his 30th birthday. I thought I heard some good stuff from Claypool, though he's been running a lot with the 2's. We're not hearing stuff yesterday and today 'cuz he went out. Toe. MVS was thought likely enough that he was given $2.25M (or something like that) fully guaranteed.

That's possible, although I don't think we have enough information to deduce the "why?" Should there have been a safety over the top helping, for example?

Fair. Though on the draft pick point scale I found, a top-10 Rd 2 pick is 480 to 580 points, Pick 189 is 16.8 points, and a 5th round selection of similar draft position is 29.6. So if the Bills manage to be similarly good this season, it's kind of like getting 10 cents back on the dollar; not nothing, but not much of a throw-in either.

So the bulldozer was supposed to contain the cowdozer? Good Luck with that

It was very apparent to you, during the first 6 weeks of last season? You got receipts on that? Because I sure don't remember anyone here standing up and opining *at that point in time*. I don't think anyone would argue that.

Did we have this one? I believe that's Christian Benford getting toasted by Keon and Casey Toohill chasing Josh around the backfield like a bulldozer chasing a cowdozer. I couldn't see who it was that Toohill must have beaten like a drum.

Yeah, that made my ears prick up. Like Dude, you fancy yourself a bit; better put your head down and grind

I think he's a chill guy with the pads and cleats off. Once they go on: Savage

Temper that info with the knowledge that Edwards went out with a hammy yesterday, and McDermott described him as "week to week" Right, I mean, Bishop was apparently out with the 1's for the initial walk through. They seem to be alternating, with the caveat that Edwards is out so it's a 2 man rotation not a 3 man right now.

What? It's not unknown for players or players and coaches to get into it on the sidelines, or in private meetings for that matter, and whether both sides move on or it turns out to be symptomatic of larger problems, is a conclusion reached in hindsight and typically without much actual insider knowledge. Your boy Kelce hit Andy Reid on the sidelines during the Superbowl. Kelce said it was unacceptable and Reid said it just shows Kelce's desire to win so nominally it's all worked out. I admire Kelce's play on the field but if the Chiefs move on from him after this coming season rather than pay a $19.5M roster bonus and this and that other tidbit rumors of conflict emerge, are we all supposed to come on your board (if you have one) and yap about how everyone should have seen it coming, those who took the position that it all got worked out and it's NBD are "wrong" and those who said "maybe there's trouble brewing with Kelce as he's still demanding playing time and target share" are "100% validated"? The facts are, the Bills took on an extra dead cap hit this year and forwent Diggs services this season, in exchange for a 2025 2nd round pick that they hope will be high. They got #1 WR production out of Diggs for the first 6 games (103 ypg) and #3-type production (45 ypg) the last 7 games. Anything else is surmise and conjucture, period. But the NFL is generally recognized to be all about "what have you done for me lately?". While 11 targets and 103 ypg are proportionate, 8 targets is a lot of target share for only 45 ypg unless the guy is playing almost exclusively from the slot. It seems plausible that there may have been factors beyond fall off in performance which led the Bills to trade Diggs, but it's also factual that the Diggs we saw during the last 7 games of the season and during the playoffs last year was not performing as "the best player to ever share a locker room with Allen". He wasn't even the most productive contributor on the field those 7 games: Shakir had 2 100-yd games, 3.4 targets per game and 52 ypg; Kincaid had 5.4 targets per game and 40.4 ypg. And, your team's own Sneed shot down the notion that Diggs was just being super-tightly doubled and taken away "we didn't even double him" Bottom line, I think there's an awful lot of smoke about Diggs for there to have been no fire, but I also think anyone who tells us that as of the Giants game, when the Bills were 4-2 and Diggs was averaging 11 targets and 103 ypg, they correctly predicted that Diggs was more trouble than he was worth, that the mini-camp meeting showed it, and that he'd be off the team in 2024 one way or another, is Full of Beans (and hindsight). If we're predicting, I'd predict that Diggs will come out the gate hot for the Texans and it will look as though they got their money's worth and more, but we'll see what he looks like at the end of the season/playoffs

I'll believe that last when I see it. The bit about "human psychology being very predictable" is likely to prove ironic. You can believe I'm not being honest if you choose. Why would you think I care what you believe? You're attaching outsize importance to yourself here, though; why would I go around looking for "opportunities to correct you"? Bit egocentric, woudn't you think? IMO, a "blow up" during training camp is different than a private meeting in a coach's office before the start of minicamp, so to me, if there were a training camp blowup I missed or had forgotten about, that would be a significant difference. YMMV, whatev's Either way, it's pretty clear by all accounts that tension between Josh and Diggs dated to the previous season and preceded the Bengals playoff loss where he was publicly observed gesticulating and yelling at Allen while Allen ignored him. The hope at this time last season was that any issues between Allen and Diggs had been resolved or at least patched up effectively. The results early in the season bore this out: the Bills were 4-2 and Diggs had >100 yds receiving in 5 of those 6 games and was 7 of 7 in the 6th. People who say "Oh, everyone should have known there was Big Trouble and Irreconcilable Differences after that private meeting at the start of minicamp" or who claims they believed it all along (including during the first 6 games) are exercising revisionist history at its finest.

And this is going to be this year's big question: do we have receivers who can get off the line vs. press coverage?

They shook at the end. Just to make a point that this is what Timmah Graham and company are saying there ought to be more of from Allen: getting in guys faces when they make a mistake, calling them out, not being "one of the guys".