Beck Water

The thing is, the Bills spent a lot of time on Franklin. My memory is a bit hazy here, but if I recall correctly in addition to attention during the college season and interviews at league-wide events like Senior Bowl, they had him into the facility for a top-30 visit and did a private workout with him. So for whatever reason, the logical conclusion seems to be they didn't like him for some reason; sometimes when a team spends a lot of time on a player, it's not because they really like him, it's because they have questions or a poor first impression and want to see if that improves on more acquaintance. (Reportedly, the Bills thought Allen was too quiet and shy initially at the Senior Bowl but that impression quickly changed when they went to visit him at Wyoming and saw him where he was comfortable) It's not just the Bills, either; every team in the league passed on him in 3 rounds. It was reported he had visits with the Bills, Jets, Browns, Patriots, Panthers, and Broncos, and they all passed 3x before the Broncos took him in the 4th.

LOL

Leaving aside fragility or the lack, what's the Eagles OL, specifically the IOL? Can they run block? Who is their center? They're listing Cam Jurgens, who played C in college and was last year's RG, but has missed time with foot injuries - is he gonna really be able to step up and replace Kelce? Then who are their guards? For that matter, if they were happy with Jordon Mailata at LT what's up with drafting Tyler Steen in the 3rd last year? Interesting that Morgan started out with two ones LOL. Burns was traded to the Giants for a 2nd and a 5th.

I have not deleted or edited any posts with responses in this thread, and yes, I knew your "dumbass" and "dumb" remarks were a response targeted at me. Sorry.not.sorry to bust your "posturing" bubble You appear to devote an excessive level of time and energy to gratuitously insulting and taking shots at people on this board and to have a peculiar fascination with myself, whereas I normally ignore your posts. Consider adding a hobby. I hear stamp and coin collecting are favored by a certain type of obsessive personality; you might consider them as an additional hobby. Please don't take up training animals. I would hate to think you might re-direct your keyboard warrior vituperations at living creatures present in your locale.

The first two para's are all fair points. I agree and have posted, that at this point we may see some potential in the WR group, but thinking it got better needs to be stamped "not proven" in big letters until we see it in action. As far as the "double dipping", though - Beane had a bunch of holes on the team as well as places where he has been plugging in FA, such as DL He also has several late-round or UDFA developmental guys and a couple of former 2nd round FA who have been dogged with injuries. Did we want Beane to pass up the chance to draft Bishop, Carter, Davis, and Van Pran? Or did we want Beane to "double dip" in the late rounds? Perhaps he felt the late-round receivers were not likely to make the team over the guys we already had on the roster?

It's my understanding they both report to Pegula, who has fate control over them both. They both have said things in interviews at various times that indicate this isn't the case, for example that Beane has on occasion done things that McDermott disagreed with and only reluctantly accepted. I doubt anything will persuade you out of an opinion you hold, though.

Um....Kincaid and Diggs were both here in 2023

If DeWayne Carter and Cedric Van Pran turn out to be solid adds to the roster, we'll be taking your statement at face value and saying "yep, Good News!" Two things are possible: 1) Beane is wrong that there was ~ equal talent among the WR drafted at or after our original pick, and the guy(s) who stand out are not our guy 2) Beane is correct and /or Coleman is the pick of the lot No one knows as of yet But I can't shake the sense that the real issue for many here is that Beane failed to trade up into the top group that went with the first 10 picks

This. @HappyDays it echos a concern I've expressed a couple of times, at least once with snapshots of Carolina's roster build and how they prioritized (or didn't) the offense compared to what Beane has done. I don't follow college football enough to understand if it's the same as far as the tendency to draft high ceiling/low floor guys late in the 1st

Just a little note that last season, when the WR corps consisted of rookie Rice, Watson, Valdez-Scantling, and Skyy Moore, Reid did not get 4500 yds out of the WR group.

Wasn't he spoofing that with the cryo chamber during his post-draft visit?

Can't speak for how Allen is thinking about his career in B'lo. Neither can you. But as for GB: Oh boo hoo for poor Aaron. He can't have it both ways....there was a point a few years back, 2019 I think, where ol' A-rod was all smiles and nods because "we finally have a defense". Well, if you want a defense, you need defenders, and with Rodgers contract that means draft 'em. Rodgers started out his career throwing to Jennings (Packers 2006 2nd round pick) who had 3 consecutive 1100+ yd seasons, top 10 and top 5 in the league, with the aging but still capable GB homie Driver putting up 1000 yd seasons right behind him. They drafted Jordy Nelson with their top pick (it was a 2nd rounder) in 2008, who took a couple years to push his way into the GB starting lineup but then developed a pretty legendary connection with Rodgers. 2011 added Randall Cobb in the 2nd and 2014, Davante Adams, who became one of the best WR in the league when playing for GB Did drafting Love in the 1st round piss Rodgers off, sure. Did the Packers spend too many high picks on defense over the years? OK, I can get that argument. Stuck with McCarthy too long? I'm listening. Underinvest in WR after moving on from Adams? Yes, certainly, although some of the same room Rodgers had in 2022 were looking pretty good with Love last season, so perhaps Rodgers was part of the problem. But let's not re-write history to act as though the Packers didn't provide Rodgers with WR talent the first decade of his career. Jennings, Driver, Nelson then Nelson, Adams, Cobb (not necessarily in that order) were two pretty potent WR rooms. And, as pointed out above, at the point where Nelson moved on from GB, Rodgers still had Adams and the thing Rodgers himself took shots at was the team's lack of D Completely agree with this point. There may be enough in the WR room. Some of us are skeptical. Time will tell. But to anoint the room at this point as having gotten better? Nah. No basis for that.

Good on you for the moxie to come here and acknowledge that you were mistaken

In general for Diggs 4 years here, no, it's not a controversial claim. I think it might be a controversial claim for the second half of last season. And I asked if you had them, because you seem so very confident in your statements in the face of observations like Sneed;s [EDIT: this was actually Justin Reid's comment] "we didn't double him"; Sauce on Shakir in the clip linked above; Cosell's comments. If I could readily find them myself, I woudn't ask. I daresay some here will "shoot the messenger" but while he didn't provide stats on who was covering him and how, the somewhat controversial Tim Graham delved into a bunch of stuff about depth of target etc here https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5174435/2024/01/03/stefon-diggs-buffalo-bills-snap-counts-targets-analysis/ Sal Maiorana pointed out Diggs catch rates against top corners were abysmal at the end of the season

I've been trying to stay out of this, but this deserves mention 1) for those who don't follow jersey numbers, in the film clip above, that was Sauce Gardner covering Shakir. Not sure who was covering Diggs, believe a LB 2) I don't have data on how often receivers were double covered and whether it was the #1 or #2 CB covering them last season - do you? I would love to see those data if so 3) no doubt at all that Diggs drew the #1 CB who often had help for much of his 4 years in B'lo. The point of contention is: was that true at the end of the 2022 season, and even more so was it true specifically at the end of 2023? Say, week -see point 1 above, this was Nov 19 Jets game, Sauce was on Shakir -in the KC game Dec 10, Sneed commented in a response to Diggs interview saying he didn't contribute because he was being doubled, by saying "funny thing is we didn't double him". Sneed was def. covering Diggs part of the time, not sure he was shadowing him, seems like he was covering other receivers at times. Diggs was 4 of 11 in that game. 4) NFL flims senior producer Greg Cosell, who has forgotten more about football than almost everyone here knows, made the comment that Diggs wasn't the Bills #1 at the end of last season and broke down a film clip where he referred to Khalil Shakir as "the new #1" TL;DR I'm not sure it's true that Diggs was shadowed, drew the #1 CB, or was doubled with a safety over the top all that much by the end of last season. These ought to be verifiable facts, but I don't have a source for these data - do you? Caveat: the point could be made that we didn't have a lot of passing game by the end of last season, either.

Tyler Bass. He went from Bass-O-Matic to Bass-Turd in one season. Runner up: Chase Claypool. If he could return to the form he had his first 2 seasons with Pitts, that would be big,

This is a point worth delving into. I'd love to see some data on how Diggs was covered the last 2 seasons, especially in the 2nd half of the year and the playoffs. There's no question in 2020 and 2021 Diggs drew double coverage and sometimes more.

The phrase "manage expectations" in the business world refers to the expectations of others that the writer is trying to manage. Saying "Beane has been trying to manage expectations" is not referring to Beane's expectations. It's the expectations of people listening to his interview - the fans - I'm talking about. In interviews since OTAs, Beane is clearly trying to temper the Coleman Hype Train that has left Highmark station and gathered speed, driven in part by the PR apparatus of the organization he works for (as shown by the $40 shirt @BADOLBILZ observed), in the probably vain hope that the fans won't toss around the "bust" word if Coleman doesn't produce 4-5 R/G for 50 Y/G right out the gate. Whether that's on general principal, or whether it's because having seen Coleman in the building trying to run their plays he now knows it's gonna be a project, can't tell ya. Since you ask, my opinion of Beane's personal expectations for how much Coleman will play: I think Beane expects him to play A Lot. Beane has influence on the amount of playing time Coleman will see in the form of the alternatives he signs at WR and thus makes available to the coaches. The WR cupboard is pretty bare, so the pressure is "on" the coaches to put Coleman out on the field, ready or not. Beane also knows that overall, his "hit rate" on players drafted in the 1st 2 rounds making a solid contribution their rookie year is a bit over 50%, even when the player develops into a solid contributor by year 2 or 3. That's about league average or a little less, but for a different reason. For many teams, it's because the guy can't adjust to play at the NFL level or doesn't have his head in the right place once he Gets Paid. For Beane, it's because he tries to compensate for late draft position by gambling on high-ceiling low-floor kind of guys, guys like Rousseau or Coleman who have lots of physical talent but actually rather limited football playing experience.

Purple Drank https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10038265-former-raiders-qb-jamarcus-russell-says-he-used-codeine-syrup-to-deal-with-injuries Snap

Beane didn't "more or less" say Coleman was going to be the X, he flat out said we see him as our X. However, as OTAs progress and the Coleman hype train gathers momentum, it's been notable that Beane has been trying to "manage expectations", talking about how young he is (I had Edmunds flashbacks), "he’s going to have bumps in the road. He’s a rookie, and I think we all need to understand that." I believe he's also said some stuff about having other guys in the room who can do it if the rookies can't right away. I think there are two separate issues perhaps being conflated a bit here. One is Beane/McDermott's expectations: yes, they expect Coleman to play, but Beane is also giving off vibes he's not going out there for a lion's share of the snaps no matter what, he's got to master the playbook and earn his playing time. I don't think he's hyping him as Diggs successor. Instead Brady is talking about spreading the ball around. The other is the Coleman Hype Train. We have an off season devoid of significant free agent moves, where the team's biggest offensive weapon for the last 4 years (outside QB) got unceremoniously traded and not clearly replaced. Then we have our top draft pick turn out to be a Goldmine for sound bites. So yeah, the Biols PR is running with him and he's getting hyped up a bunch in the press. Maybe he's getting up-sold as Diggs successor, but I don't hear that as coming from Beane or McDermott. From the Bills PR side of things, I think it's more he's enormously personable and a great interview and Beane didn't give them much of anyone else to talk about. TL;DR two separate issues here: 1) How Beane and McDermott see Coleman's contributions year one and how they present him to the press 2) How the Bills PR machine and press are hyping him up

The 5th year option for a WR can be a valuable tool, especially with a player who may be slower to develop so the team isn't quite ready to bet a market rate 2nd contract on him going into his 4th season. But, what people who whinge about it aren't considering, is the cost-controlled contracts of the players we were able to draft because of the trade- backs. We didn't have a 3rd round pick, and we had multiple 6th round picks. We got a 3rd round pick, and we moved way up in the 5th. With those picks, we drafted DT DeWayne Carter and C Sedrick Van Pran. If either of those guys work out for us long-term, that value needs to be factored in.

I'm sure when he was married, he never took his supermodel wife to any social events or did tropical vacations with his family He has a golf handicap of 9 due to natural talent But he played catch with MVS at "some high school" after he came off the green! If that's not commitment, what is?

Players are required to be available to the media. They are not required to talk to the media, nor are they required to give podium interviews. The Bills are asked if specific players can be made available to the media, and the Bills can and do decline (the assumption being they usually ask the player). Von didn't have to "get interviewed weekly". It was his choice. Usually the players who are interviewed are the ones who have made strong contributions to the team that week. He said it himself - he didn't want to "sacrifice any of his years" and he wanted to be out there. So, if he's out there on the field, fans (and coaches! he was inactive one game!) are going to judge him by the "product on the field". That seems like common sense to me, if you're intent on going there. What else are they going to judge him on? His domestic relationships? Allen "gets it" - he comes out of a game where he played like crap and he doesn't say "my shoulder was hurting like hell and pain is screwing with my mechanics and I shouldn't have been out there because I really need to rest and let it heal, ", he says "I played like crap and I have to play better" Look, I hope Von Miller has a great season. I hope he wins Comeback Player of the Year though, I'd settle for just 2023 Leonard Floyd quality contributions but lasting throughout the season. But let's not re-define words like "common sense" to mean "how dare fans judge me on the quality of my on-field performance for which I carried a $7.9M cap hit last season!"

I don't need to let a thing go.... You made a point that Von didn't deserve the hate he got for LY. I get your point about the confidence/bravado just being part of who Von is. But at the same time, when a guy goes public with it, he's got to know that fans will keep receipts if his mouth makes a promise that his body can't keep. I don't blame Von for tallking, but my point is he drew the reaction with his own actions (getting out there and talking)

Thanks for clarifying your point being that players don't go from being one type of player to a completely different type of player. I do agree that in general, that's true. And, for example, Zay Jones draft profile comments that his high receptions and yardage were due more to scheme and targets than ability to uncover (separation ability and speed). I will confess that I kind of laid a trail, though. For example, Bernard's draft profile by Zierlein considers him as "Undersized sub-package nickel linebacker with special-teams value on the next level....lacks the desired frame and play strength" Bleacher report says "Bernard projects best as a weak-side linebacker." Can't find a soul who said "This kid projects as a MLB in the NFL" much less "Yeah, this kid's gonna shine as the MLB on a winning team and make fans say "Tremaine Who?" Honestly, though, I do see your point that Zay Jones from the point where he was drafted, never looked like a true boundary, downfield receiving option who can win against man. As far as "this is the first time since then".....I dunno...he was fast before he lost his burst after the ankle injuries, but did you really see John Brown as that true downfield threat? He could be taken away so easily by physical play and didn't always run crisp routes, especially late in the game. And I think some guys who love film (Cosell) thought Diggs wasn't that guy either, by 2022, that he was putting up great #s because we were force-feeding him. Whereas, both MVS and, in his first 2 years in the league, Claypool, do legit have the downfield threat chops....they have big ????s Claypool because of his head, and MVS because of his hands, but if we're talking "type of player", that is their jam. '