Beck Water
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Posts posted by Beck Water
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31 minutes ago, Motorin' said:
I'm also trying to imagine him being at a party with teammates and only hanging out in the yard, having outdoor sex and never entering the house.
Him admitting to hooking up consensually outside, but claiming he never stepped foot inside is a little hard to believe.
Has he claimed he never set foot inside?
3 minutes ago, MPT said:So sign another punter until everything gets resolved. If Araiza is innocent, he gets his job back. If he's guilty, cut him. Nobody is going to claim him off waivers right now so he can be on the practice squad until further notice.
You can't have the guy on the practice squad traveling with the team right now.
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3 minutes ago, BTB said:
So, he had sex with her, took her to a room, and his teammates raped her, but his buddies or anyone else at this gathering, shared the end result with him in the days or weeks afterwards.
okee dokie
Even if he didn't take her to the room but only took her inside and introduced her to some other guys and left her standing in the living room.....there are comments that the whole football team knew of rumors that a gang rape took place at that party and members of the football team were involved. There were anonymous reports to the University naming Matt as potentially involved.
It would strain belief that he didn't know something besides a BJ and a quickie in the side yard was involved here.
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5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:
For the sake of argument, let's say Araiza is innocent. Imagine his level of distress. The hurt of a false accusation. The media storm. The loss of reputation in the eyes of his teammates and coaches. Going from excitement over making the team to the fear of losing his job...
The kid may have been an emotional wreck at gametime. McD may have benched him because he wasn't fully capable of playing.
You could be correct, but my personal take on what McDermott said in his presser was that he made the decision because he felt he and the other team decision makers needed time to re-visit and sort through all the information that is available and make their best judgement - but in the meantime, it would be a hideous look to be putting a player potentially involved in something like that on the field in a Bills uniform.
I think McDermott is well aware of the possibility that Araiza is not guilty or possibly not involved at all in the more heinous aspects of the civil complaint, and has compassion for his distress and the distress of his family. Concern that he was "not capable" may have been one reason to not play him, but these guys compartmentalize all the time and contrarily, if the Bills intend to stand by Araiza and keep him on the team they would need to evaluate just how well he can compartmentalize and perform.
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8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
The way the civil lawsuit is very deliberately written to not directly accuse Araiza of participating in the gang rape, I believe there may be some truth to this. All they had to do was draw an implication between her hooking up with Araiza and later being allegedly gang raped and the media would run with that. I find it telling that Araiza's lawyer is out there publicly defending his client, while lawyers for others named in the lawsuit have said "no comment at this time."
I don't see the civil lawsuit as written to not directly accuse Araiza of participating in the gang rape. To the contrary, it explicitly states that he participated in several ways (which, to be fair, are not corroborated in the young woman's alleged journal)
First, it alleges he gave her a spiked drink. Then, it specifically states he led her into the room where the rape allegedly occurred and where 3 men were already waiting, and tossed her face down on the bed, where she was then allegedly gang raped for an hour and a half.
I believe that makes him an accessory. This is from a Texas law site, but Cali law likely has something similar:
QuoteSecond, a under sec. 7.02 (a)(2), a person is responsible for the acts of another if “acting with intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense, he solicits, encourages, directs, aids, or attempts to aid the other person to commit the offense.” This is the classic definition of an “accomplice”
Giving a girl a spiked drink then taking an incapacitated girl into a room where rapists are waiting and tossing her face-down onto the bed would strike me as "acting with intent to assist the offense".
The lawsuit says:
"He handed her a drink anyway. Doe did not see Araiza pour her drink, but she accepted the drink and began consuming it. Upon information and belief, this drink not only contained alcohol, but other intoxicating substances." and
"Araiza then led Doe inside the house, past the living room, and into a bedroom. There were at least three other men already in the bedroom, including defendants Leonard and Ewaliko. Once inside, Araiza threw Doe onto the bed face first. Doe went in and out of consciousness while she was being raped, but she does remember some moments from the horrific gang rape. During this time, her phone was also taken. The men took turns having sex with her from behind while she
lay face first on the mattress."So while the lawsuit leaves vague whether Araiza was one of the men in the room who raped her, it directly accuses him of particpating as an accessory.
And whether or not he participated in the rape itself - decent human beings have a moral imperative to #### block rapists. They take inebriated young women to find their friends and get taken home. They don't dump inebriated young women on a bed in front of teammates like dumping out a bag of snacks, then leave and shut the door and say "I Know Nothing About Those Snacks Being Eaten"
=====>=====>To be fair, the young woman's alleged journal does not state that Araiza is the one who led her to the room where "they were already waiting". It does not mention him tossing her face first on the bed, and as far as interactions with Araiza outside only mentions "gave me a drink and flirted/introduced ourselves" then "not really sure what happened next".
There are several regards in which the journal does not support the statements in the civil lawsuit.
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3 minutes ago, mannc said:
It’s not at all clear that Araiza knew there was any sort of pending legal matter in April.
I think his lawyer strongly implied that he knew, he just didn't think it would go forward.
I'll try to find the quote which implies this to me.
It was something about Matt reading an article in the LA Times which didn't name names, but he recognized the incident and hired a lawyer saying he was surprised it was still going forward. Surprise at something going forward implies you know it's there and could go.
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5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:
Maybe Araiza didn't know either because he wasn't in that room where this took place?
This goes to what I said above.
It was said that all of the football team knew there were stories of a gang rape that took place at that party and 5 players were there, including Matt. So even if he was not himself in the room and involved, he had to know the stories that something more than just a BJ and a quickie on the lawn took place there. And even if he didn't take her into the room and throw her face down on the bed as the civil complaint alleges, if he took her inside and introduced her to those guys, he has to know he can be seen as having some type of "accessory" involvement.
The school now acknowledges that they received anonymous complaints about what happened, and naming Matt as involved.
It strains credulity that Araiza didn't know, even if he wasn't in the room and didn't participate.
So he has to let the team know the whole story, IMHO.
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2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
Actually, they were told on 7/30 that a civil suit was coming. They knew it would be public.
But did they know what was going to be in it, or did they think it involved him having sex with a minor or sex with a person too drunk to consent? and not the whole horrific, piercings ripped out, bruises on neck and body, bleeding from ***** gang rape story?
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15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
Should the release him before they know if he was involved in what is being alleged? That’s the question.
IMHO they should release him if he lied or omitted information about what exactly was involved here when it came to the point where he learned the police investigation went to the DA and he hired a criminal defense lawyer.
Example: allegedly there were rumors on the football team and the campus about a Halloween party where a girl was gang-raped, involving 5 football players including Matt. There were anonymous reports to that effect, the college now admits, although apparently the reporters refused to follow up with a Title IX complaint. So Matt must have known something else happened at the party, even if he left the party after his own meeting with the girl.
Suppose Matt and/or his lawyer told the Bills that there was a police investigation into him regarding a party where a 17 yr old girl attended, said she was in college, and Matt had sex with her (statutory rape, mistake in age defense). Suppose Matt and/or his lawyer failed to mention that there was a police investigation into a forcible gang rape involving several of his teammates that occurred at that same party, and he can prove he did not participate but may be involved because he introduced the girl to those guys.
IMHO, the Bills should cut his ass for that. It's at best, lying by omission.
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16 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:
Here is a potential poor decision posts where asking about
If you are having to ask a girl what her age is she is too young for you
Spoken like a guy who hasn't been to a college party in more than a decade, or known anyone who has. Some women in their mid-20s look older than some girls in their mid-teens. Fact, Jack.
10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:Maybe she was actually looking to have sex herself? You mean to tell me high school girls just like high school guys aren't all trying to get laid. I mean she did consent to sex so maybe she told him that because she was looking to actually have sex with someone at the party
Yes, I mean to tell you high school girls (and college girls) aren't "ALL" trying to get laid.
Some of them are - for sure. They 100% set out to hook up, they play "treasure hunt" party games (kiss a guy you don't know, let him feel you up, do a body shot, give a BJ etc). I had a kid just graduate college, that wasn't her thing but she knew all about it.
Some of them just want to dress sexy and bask in feeling admired and flirt and drink and go home and sleep it off.
The assumption that 100% of the latter, actually are the former or can be persuaded or inebriated into being the former, causes a lot of social and legal problems on HS and college campuses today.
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7 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:
The stories about her lying about her age is slut shaming, plain and simple. Following the Koby Bryant playbook step by step.
Pardon, but in this context, I disagree. People are saying that Araiza committed statutory rape if he admitted he had sex with her. In that context, it's a relevant legal fact that in California, "mistake in age" where you have reasonable cause to believe someone is over 18 is apparently a defense. So if she was lying about her age and saying she was an 18 yr old college girl, and Araiza had sex with her under that belief, legally he may be in the clear.
Morally, of course, there's a lot amiss with the whole situation, starting with "don't further inebriate already inebriated young women for sexual favors, find their friends and send them home" and progressing to "Cockblock rapists, don't Feed them"
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3 minutes ago, jkirchofer said:
You can't chalk up being accused of sexual assault as a life experience. It's not hard to make good decisions. The fact that he put himself in this situation speaks volumes about his character as a whole.
You didn't answer my question. Do you have kids and if so, how old are they?
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1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:
What I learned last night:
1)Josh could win a bunch of games with our backups- hopefully he does not need to do it.
2) I really hope we keep Blackshear and Hodgins
3) the backups reminded me of watching the talent level when Fitz was at QB.
3) is a good point especially a bit into the game. Fitz used to have that "jailbreak" right in his face, snap after snap after snap.
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2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:
Would he to voluntarily agree to that otherwise a CBA grievance? Though not sure the NFLPA would want that bad press either fighting it. If suspended does he count towards 53?
Read a couple threads about putting him on exempt list. Would Araiza have to request that? And what exactly does that mean for roster salary, etc.?
As has been said too much of him being guilty in court of public opinion to keep him on roster now as too much of a distraction.
I believe if the Bills suspend him he counts towards the 53 man roster, yes. Whether it's an NFLPA grievance or not depends upon exactly what the suspension is for. If Araiza lied to or misled the Bills about having an interview with police this summer in an active rape investigation, or about what happened, I think that would come under the "conduct detrimental" clause and they can suspend him. I don't think they can suspend him for something that happened last October without a grievance.
The exempt list has to come from the Commissioner. He would not count towards the 53 if he's on that list. Normally it wouldn't happen for something occurring before he was drafted, but, again if Araiza or his rep lied to or misled the Bills this summer, Goodell might oblige out of understanding that this is a very bad look for the NFL as a whole.
2 minutes ago, jkirchofer said:He should have made better choices and not put himself in a situation to be accused of sexual assault. It's not hard to do.
Dude, do you have kids? How old are they?
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4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:
Why Simon, why??😭
Somebody open a cut prediction thread quick, please
JUST FOR YOU I did that thing, and are you over there posting? NooooooOoooooo
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15 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:
The only thing I will add - I see the TE3 as a choice between a back-up for Knox in Morris (more open and fluid in routes - less a blocker) and a back-up for Howard in Sweeney- less athletic more blocking traits.
I frankly think Howard is toast. He was playing at the very end of the game.
Sweeney is a big solid guy at 6'5" 251 and looks like he should be a great blocking TE.
But is he?
I saw him get totally pwned at times today, and other times when I've watched him, his body and placement is all wrong for good leverage.
Sweeney was actually an accomplished receiver at Boston College and the concern pre-draft was that his blocking needed a lot of technical development.
On the other hand in some glimpses I saw, Morris actually looked solid as a blocker.
8 hours ago, Floydboy12 said:I don’t think they keep Sweeney or Shaq and Cam Lewis is 50/50. I think they keep Duke Johnson.
I think they may PUP Tre White and keep another DB. My thinking was it would be Cam Lewis, but it's possible Nick McCloud impressed them enough.
13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:Tommy Sweeney can not block. No ides where this idea comes from but people have said it for 3 years now at this time lf year and he is utterly, utterly dreadful at it.
Thank you. That is what I have seen.
I think it arises because he's big and solid and looks like he ought to be able to block.
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1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:
you may be correct, but then I think McD has unrealistic thoughts about what sort of investigation the team can do. Without criminal charges this is still a he-she said because there is nothing from the police investigation. Perhaps McD should have asked the police to release the tapes, etc.
I wrote up some thoughts I had on this topic in another post. Probably not as coherent as I think it is, but have a gander.
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So people have raised the question of "what does McDermott really mean by 'work to do'? What can the Bills actually investigate?"
There's an article here on the scouting process. I found it interesting, give it a read if you haven't:
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-draft-process-requires-teams-to-truly-know-prospects-0ap2000000326374
QuoteSay the word "scout" and most folks think of a stopwatch, a clipboard and a dark film room. The truth is that these days, that all represents just a percentage of the job. One GM estimated that those positions are now 50-50 in terms of doing work on the player vs. the person. The area scout goes further, saying that character assessment "is at least 50 percent of our job."
The area scouts are expected to develop background on the draft prospects - what are they like as people, what are they like to coach, are there any red flags?
Quote"The expectation is that we know that we've created sources that will tell us as much as we can possibly know about the kid," Schneider said. "You're expected to be the expert in your area."
It can mean knowing a player's high school coach or his elementary school principal. If you're the Southeast area scout, it has to mean having places like Baton Rouge wired. If you're assigned to the Midwest, it's knowing all the ins and outs of spots like Columbus, down to the academic advisors and the trainers and sometimes even the local police.
The truth isn't always easy to come by. Getting there is what counts.
Every NFL club apparently has its own boundaries around what behavior from a prospect is a "Hard No".
QuoteWith some players, teams will advance to the stage of putting their security directors, who are often retired federal agents, on the case, dispatching them to the college cities and hometowns of prospects for further research. The security directors will do things like hit up the area bars and coffee shops to gather local perception and use law enforcement connections to siphon information. Later in the process, the heads of security are often a big part of clubs' draft meetings as players are discussed.
Obviously, teams are going to put a lot more effort into players they might draft in the top 3 rounds, than into players they might draft in the 6th or 7th round. And scouts are going to have better connections at schools they visit all the time, than at lower level programs.
So these guys are presumably taking lots of notes as they talk to people. Young assistants may hang out in bars and talk to students. But then they got to summarize those notes and boil them down to 2-3 sentences or maybe a para on each prospect's work ethics, personal life, and character. There's a judgement call: maybe there was talk about wild partying and a couple of women who made sexual assault complaints. Was there substance to it? Should they X the guy off the draft board? And clearly for a lot of teams over the years, the answer to that has been "no" unless the claim was well substantiated - Jameis Winston is one example of that.
If it's true that there was talk on the football team about a rape involving 5 members of the football team at a party off campus, that really is the sort of thing the area scout and investigators might have heard, and made notes about, and then reached a judgement whether they were going to take it seriously and write it into their 2 sentence summary on that player.
That's one thing the Bills can do - talk to their area scout, have him go back through his notes when he scouted Araiza and see if he had information he made a judgement call not to pass on, but that might have a bearing on what was being said on the team or on campus last October or November.
Likewise, there may have been other summaries from combine interviews not just with Araiza but with coaches. McDermott and Beane aren't going to get the raw data on late round prospects, they'll get summaries. So they can go back and look through the raw data here, on an information gathering mission.
Then they need to synthesize everything they know together and make a decision.
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6 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:
You need to read between the lines. "Did you feel you were misled by Matt?" "I'm not gonna go there." By not saying "no", he said volumes.
That was my interpretation, but other interpretations differ
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38 minutes ago, StHustle said:
You are wrong sir. Law enforcement constantly uses polygraphs to eliminate suspects. It’s not used as a means to create suspects…but often times (constantly) used as a way to eliminate suspects from a pool. They need to pass with flying colors. If Araiza can pass at least two polygraphs from independent administrators (at least one being from the plaintiff) that would prove his case!Um, you know you're talking to an experienced LEO here in Levi?
That said, I think there is a widespread public perception that polygraphs can be fooled or evaded. So I don't think it would be the conclusive proof you believe it would be.
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Transcript of McDermott's Presser
QuoteOpening statement: Understand there was a game just played, but I want to talk about something that’s more important, which is what we have going on with one of the members of our team right now, Matt Araiza. It is a situation that is extremely serious, just hard to go through and it’s not a situation that I or we take lightly whatsoever, and it’s very serious. I understand the sensitivity of the situation, and it’s clear we have work to do to continue to figure this thing out here and we’re going to do that.
Selected excerpts:
QuoteQ. What makes him a great kid, which is what you called him this week?
SM: “Again, not going to get into who Matt is and his character and all that type of stuff. I don’t think that’s right right now. I can tell you this, my heart and thoughts and prayers go out to the people involved. Right. And that includes Matt, it includes both sides here, and the victim and everyone involved. Our prayers go out to them.”
QuoteQ. Have you been satisfied with the organization’s response to these allegations?
SM: “We have work to do. We have work to do.”
Q. Why didn’t Araiza play tonight?
SM: “It was my decision. At the end of the day, I didn’t feel like it was right to do that.”
Q. What are the spirits in the locker room?
SM: “Where do you want to start? It is something that I and we take very seriously and that’s where we’re at.”
QuoteQ. What does that work involve? How thorough was the investigation?
SM: “There’s work to be done. I’m not gonna go into details on that. We’ve got more work to do.”
QuoteQ. What work has to be done?
SM: “It’s just a matter of trying to find the truth at the end of the day, right? That’s the goal is find the truth and do the right thing. And that’s what I keep coming back to in my mind and my heart is find out the truth to the best of my ability and do the right thing.”
Q. At what point can you share details of the timeline about exactly what you knew and when?
SM: “I’ll see. I mean, like I said, we got a lot of work in front of us here, a lot of work and we got to figure this thing out.”
QuoteQ. Is not addressing this and letting it fester a concern?
SM: “Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, all of it all. That’s one piece, but I’m concerned about all of it. And again, people involved on both sides. People are hurt, people are hurting, fans are hurting. I understand that and again, we want to find the truth and figure this thing out the right way and do the right thing. And that’s what I know to do. And that’s what we’re going to work on.”
Q: Did Araiza lie to the team?
SM: “I’m not gonna get into that again, respectfully. It’s just working on finding that truth. And that’s where we’re at with it.”
QuoteQ. Do feel misled by any of the parties?
SM: “I’m not gonna get into that. Again, it’s getting into the details that I can’t get into right now.”
Q. How much did you learn in the last 24 hours that you didn’t already know?
SM: “I would say there’s been some, and I’m not going to deny that, and that’s why I have more work to do on this."
Q: Do you put the blame on that on Matt, on the organization? Who's responsible for you not having that information previously?
SM: "I’m more trying to be solution oriented right now. And that’s where I’m headed. And that’s where we need to be headed."
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5 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:
Keeping Bryant? Interesting. He's flashed at DT. But that's TEN (10) DL then? That's a lot.
I could be wrong. I snipped Jake Kumerow and that could be wrong.
Didn't they keep 10 last year?
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Pretty good summation including a link to the text of the lawsuit and interviews with both lawyers.
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1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:
No but the panthers broadcast crew says that Ike Boettger played great starting at LG today 😂I caught that too
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2 hours ago, Beck Water said:
created by request of @Solomon Grundy but if y'all wanna keep this on the page, better pipe up or ask @Simon to pin it
Here's the 53 man roster from Sal Capaccio for your cutting pleasure
Note that if Tre White goes on PUP, we only need to cut to 55, ie 25 guys
OK, here I go:
PUP
Tredavious White (Cam Lewis stays because of this)
IR
Marquise Stevenson
Reserve/Suspended
Andre Smith
Trade
Zach Moss
Cuts
Josh Thomas, S
Jordan Miller, DB
Jamarcus Ingram DB
Nick McCloud DB (Practice Squad)
Joe Giles-Harris
Baylon Spector (Practice Squad)
CJ Brewer
Prince Emili (Practice Squad)
Eli Ankou
Kingsley Jonathan
Mike Love
Tanner Owen
Luke Tenuta
Greg Van Roten
Jacob Capra
Alec Anderson (practice squad)
OJ Howard
Neil Pau'u (practice squad)
Jake Kumerow
Raheem Blackshear (practice squad)
Matt BarkleyMatt Araiza, replaced by new punter once Stevenson goes on IR
Edit: I missed Tanner Gentry. He's gone.
Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.
in Off the Wall
Posted
This matches what I've read (from SDSU press release and some recent news stories. There was something about Matt being named in one of the anonymous reports to the college, neutrally, to the effect of "if he isn't really involved he deserves to have his name cleared and if he is involved, he deserves to face consequences"
I'm wondering if you have or can find any press or message board links back to the winter of 2021?
I would dearly love to see them and it sounds as though you know what boards to look for and what papers might have stories.
But if what you say is true, it would be ridiculous if the Bills drafted Araiza not knowing this was hanging over him. They need to look at their area scout and their investigator and how they're functioning.