Beck Water

And that's a valid point of view, and a valid point not to lose sight of his actual contributions.

Yeah, this is where I am with Davis. I can see persistent ankle injuries as hindering his moves and keeping him from getting open. But when he's targeted, and the ball is catchable, he needs to catch it. I also have the belief he's making some route running mistakes. JT O'Sullivan pointed out one on his QB school piece of the Vikes game. We don't know who saw it incorrectly on the Sauce Gardiner INT vs the NYJ - of course Allen took responsibility, I tend to give Davis the benefit of the doubt on that one though. I know I noted at least 3 others where the route combo looked weird to me and someone commented that they thought Davis should have been running a different route. There have been a couple other plays where I thought if he ran his route differently, he would either get a DPI or prevent a pick. IDK, maybe he's getting doped up to deal with the ankle and that affects his mentals and his reflexes a bit?

Diggs would be 1) very unhappy 2) not used to his best strengths as a full time slot receiver.

This is scaring me to death. I hope Josh and Von Roten are working overtime on that QB center exchange, because if Josh didn't have good hands and great reflexes, his 3 fumbles in the MIA game woulda been worse. Yeah I did, Thanks.

This is hindsight of course, but I wish we could have traded up for Pickens. Have been impressed by what I've seen of him. But overall to your point....since Beane took over, the offensive picks in the first 3 rounds are Cody Ford, Spencer Brown, and 3 RBs. Two of those 5 players are no longer in the building.

Statistically, the Bills offense has been very good when Gilliam has been in (yes of course that's what I meant, and thanks to those who pointed it out politely)

Not even getting 2020 or 2021 Cole Beasley again. They might have personnel who could run empty sets, but most of the time teams don't give us defensive coverage that favors it. The template on how to defend the Bills when they're running empty sets and smacking down the challenge "we don't care about the run game, we intend to sling the ball all over the field on you" was laid down during the Pittsburgh opener last season and continued periodically all season, and into this season.

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches-roster/john-butler

Crowder played 50% of the snaps vs. Miami and was playing in the Ravens game until he broke his leg. He also plays a different role. So he has nothing to do with Gabe Davis "gutting it out". Kumerow played against Miami and was lost to a high ankle sprain. He has always seen limited snaps offensively, and Davis certainly didn't "gut it out" to take his role on ST vs Baltimore. In fact Hodgins was elevated the following week vs. Pittsburgh, and played very effectively with 4 receptions on 6 targets for 41 yds. I can't say the Bills were "dumb" to count on Davis stepping up, because he looked productive in his limited snaps last season. But he hasn't stepped up as expected. It's not the Mia and Bal games that are the issue, it's the disappearing games against Green Bay and the Jets. The guy has a 52.7% catch %. That ain't good. Neither are the 5 drops (9.1% drops) and the INTs (5) against him. Yeah, Josh throws him high degree of difficulty balls at times and some of the INTs aren't his fault. I hope you're correct that Gabe will be huge down the stretch because we need him.

Harrison Phillips was marketed as the replacement for Kyle Williams when he was drafted in the 3rd round of 2018. The line between starter and backup will always be blurry for the Bills DL because of McDermott's insistence on DL rotation, but at the start of 2019, most observers felt he was playing well and starting to take snaps from Star. Then the ACL It's true that Phillips participated in training camp, but he also was NOT playing well to start the 2020 season, and he wound up being made a healthy scratch for 4 games mid-season. After the season Beane and McDermott implied that it was in part, to give him more time to "get right", that he really wasn't ready to play at the beginning of the season. Neither Jordan Phillips (left in FA) nor Star Lotulelei (Covid opt-out) were with the Bills at that time, and Jordan Phillips typically does not play 1TDT So if the idea is to use Harrison Phillips as an argument for "guy who came back from ACL in less than a year" not sure he supports that case, and he was badly needed because with Star opting out, the pickin's at 1TDT were slim - Harrison Phillips was hoped to be the "it" guy. Instead, it was Vernon Butler and who? The Bills defense was not living up to expectations. We wound up platooning a bunch of guys and running 1TDT by committee. BTW, we got another guy who tore his ACL 4 weeks before Tre on the Bills practice squad right now - Justin Zimmer.

All injured NFL players have the right to a second medical opinion not affiliated with the team, and if they choose to pursue treatment, to follow that medical advice. He wasn't supposed to be a depth player

Should change username to WhoopJumpedOff

Or, here's a thought. Both Beane and McDermott have referenced that Tre' has his own surgeon and medical team, and that there is a need to coordinate/communicate with them as well as with the Bills own physicians and sports trainers. McDermott mentioned "checking boxes". What if Tre's medical team has defined "boxes" to check and Tre' isn't checking them yet? It could be a strength or a movement metric or, it could be a recovery metric - the day after a full practice, how swollen is his knee? How much ROM does he have? A recovery metric would make the most sense to me because I would expect Tre was meeting or close to meeting the strength or movement metrics before they opened his PUP return window and allowed him to start practicing. But, the condition of the joint (how swollen, how much ROM) the day after a full practice may be harder to predict. For those saying "but but but he's not on the injury report...." it's my understanding that the line between "normal" training room visits and injury treatment is blurry by this time of year - for example, it's been said that by this time of the year, most of the OL are getting their knees drained and cortisone injections on a regular basis, but they don't show up on injury report for this

Oooh, you're being reasonable! Stop That!

Thanks! It's wonderful to have an actual link and be able to actually listen to what was said instead of a bunch of inferences and interpretations. I don't hear "holdout" on White, there. I do hear that there's a level someone (White and his rehab team?) feels he needs to be at, which may be a higher level than the Bills medical and training team feel he should be at. But it is a player's right under the CBA to get a second opinion and to choose treatment and rehab independent of the team (which the team must then work with), and it doesn't mean it's a mental issue for White.

We certainly could have won all 3 games without Tre, would be a point of agreement between us But I think when you want to boil it down to "one play" and point at "if that one play was different we win", you could probably point at a defensive play as well. For example, if Jefferson doesn't make that 32 yd reception on 4th and 18 with 2 minutes left in the game, we get the ball back and are 1 first down from a win. Would Tre White at his previous level of play make a difference there? etcetera.

I mean, I Get It, not everyone is Into capology. But it doesn't take a huge amount of effort to do one search https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tredavious-white-21768/

These threads are like Utah's Wasach Brewery beers. "Why Have Just One?"

You really don't know that. It's possible that Tre looks bad in practice and is getting smoked, but that could entirely be a physical issue still. There's a difference between physically healthy, and physically able to play NFL CB at a very high level. The fact is we have had quite high level play from the combination of Jackson, Benford and Elam (albeit with rookie mistakes and miscues) most of the season.

I don't agree necessarily that all 3 losses are on the offense and Bass. For example, the defense giving up 174 and 147 rushing yards and allowing the Vikings to convert 3 of 5 4th downs would, IMHO, have something to do with the most recent losses. I think missing Poyer may have had more impact there.

Huh? The only "latest comments" I've heard from McDermott about Tre White are "He's not ready to play" and "I'm not going to go into that"

to the bolded - Huh? It's certainly reasonable for fans to be questioning WTF is going on with Tre, especially since McDermott has been mum on that point. But jumping to conclusions like "he's fully cleared and able to play and just mentally weak and he needs to Get Over It" does seem unreasonable to me.

Strangely enough, Gentry has played exactly 2% of the ST snaps this season - ONE (1) whole ST snap. Gentry is NOT and has never been a special teamer. It would give him more chances in the NFL if he were! On the other hand, Gentry has taken 18 snaps in 2 games at WR. So I would say the Bills in fact do line him up in a WR role, ayou tagging me as a "fool" with the rejoinder you used, may perhaps not be the "pwn" you believe it to be and in fact looks a little ironic. You said we have only 4 active WR. The FACT is we had 5 active WR yesterday. You implied the Bills should IR Tre so they can sign another WR to the 53 man roster. Who is that WR going to be? "Next man up" from the practice squad is now Gentry, since the Giants grabbed Hodgins off waivers. Strangely enough, the Bills were able to activate Gentry from the PS without IRing Tre. Now if you want the Bills to IR Tre and sign another non-retired WR out of street clothes or off another team's practice squad who is better than Gentry, that's fine - but who is this more contributory WR who can walk in the door and play that week supposed to be?

No, that's not what I said. Being uninjured does not mean "physically able to play a game at a level better than the other DB can put forth right now". Giving a guy 10-15 snaps a game is a luxury of preseason. If a guy is on the active gameday roster, the Bills need to believe he can play a game.

You Contrarian Rascal, You!