Beck Water

Um, maybe I don't understand you, but if an RB TE or WR decides to "give himself up" it is just as illegal to hit him. A player "giving himself up" by sliding or taking a knee is not limited to QB, any ball carrier can do it. Rule 7-2-1-d (which covers when the ball becomes dead) says: when a runner declares himself down by: (1) falling to the ground or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance; or (2) sliding. When a runner slides feet or head first or simulates sliding, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet, or begins to simulate touching the ground; There were several controveries around this - I think one was Evan Engram "giving himself up" then the ball coming out, which was ruled "not a fumble"; another involved Mixon tossing the ball to a teammate assuming he was down by contact, KC grabbed the ball and tried to advance it as though it were fumbled (the refs didn't bite)

Fair. I didn't read the whole thread before I responded to you. I won't take it personally if you don't feel moved to respond. I wasn't one of them. He was going for the ball, not Keon's head, on a play where if Keon makes the catch it's over. 'Course, getting penalized meant it was over, but there's always the chance it won't be called. It was a bang-bang play just like back in....hmmm 2019 I think, we played the Pats and Josh went out with a concussion after Jonathan Jones hit him - Josh was still upright and running, Jones launched into Allen as a runner just as his teammate tackled Josh from behind, so Josh was coming down and Jones shoulder and arm went right into his chin and head. A lot of fans were "dirty play" then too - they were wrong. Poyer was always an edgy player, especially as he's aged and his athleticism has dropped off somewhat. We loved his edgy when it was our edgy, but it's the same edgy. I guess I'm not following you here that whether it's dirty or not doesn't matter....if it's not dirty it's an illegal hit, it calls for a penalty but not an ejection or a suspension If it's dirty, it calls for both The NFL agrees with you since initially Myles Garrett was suspended indefinitely, I think it wound up being 6 games. I will say as far as I can make out from the NFL's letter, part of the ejection appears to be the fight after the hit, in which Al-Shaair threw another player to the ground by his facemask, and then when told he was ejected by the ref, kept right on going to pursue a different opponent. All that "after the play" extracurricular stuff isn't part of the game either.

That totally cracked me up. "That's my pet - what are they called again?" I was totally waiting for the press to ask their names and what they eat.

Who knew McDermott's sense of humor involved fib with a straight face?

So I think I posted this in a different thread. It turns out Hollins has been filming these little "challenge" videos on Instagram, a different one every month. I think they're on Friday. Unlike stupid and destructive challenges like Tide Pods, these are actually him providing useful tips or science entertainment with good explanations. For November, he was doing Science Challenges and the lab coat, white wig, glasses, and gloves, were the outfit he filmed in. The things he did weren't novel, but his delivery was cool, his explanations were good, and if his message was "Watch this kids! Yes, you can be quirky and geeky and smart, and still be an amazing athlete and a pro NFL player", I love it! Here are two of them: Diet coke geyser: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DC7bq12yPDG/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet Become Waterproof: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DC7bq12yPDG/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet Agreed, the bare feet are about #4. But now that I know the "crazy" had a purpose and wasn't a random schtick, I like it.

Wow, Caserio. He is not doing the Texans program any favors with the league by presenting Al-Shaair as an exemplar of the Texans program and values. Caserio would be within his rights to question the consistency of discipline, but he needs to say "we understand that the hit was unacceptable. we have questions about the discipline relative to other discipline and will be reaching out to the league to share our concerns". Sounds to me that the length of the suspension was influenced by Shaiir's previous behavior and by failing to respect the referee and leave the field after the ejection. The league has these relatively small, relatively weak refs who need to maintain control of 106+ testosterone-laden, revved-up men playing a violent game. They are going to be harsh on any behavior that disrespects the ref, for good reason.

I respectfully disagree. He changed his angle, launched AND hit Trevor across the neck with his braced forearm. You know you're not supposed to hit a sliding QB. You know you're not supposed to hit a player in the head. He did both. It's sometimes impossible to avoid hitting a sliding player, but you don't have to neck-bar him. Yes.

I didn't see the game, what was his behavior for the next several minutes? Edit: Got It.

I understand your viewpoint, but the NFL has been making changes attempting to protect players from head injury, and especially to protect QBs. So the last 30 years is no longer relevant - the question is, was it a dirty hit given what the rules are today? And my answer is "yes, it was, he was properly ejected, and he should be suspended." The NFL has (for good reason) taken "intent" out of the equation. You don't hit a defenceless player in the helmet or neck. You might be targeting the ball and hit the head by mistake as Poyer argubly did with Shakir in the first Miami-Bills game, but the NFL says "we don't care what you intend, figure out how to avoid it". Same thing with a sliding QB. You don't slam your arm across a sliding QB's neck. It's something you can avoid, so they NFL expects you to avoid it. Put your arm down and roll. Yeah, these are incredible athletes playing at 20 mph, but because they're incredible athletes he is able to (and expected to) react once he sees Lawrence begin his slide. I almost never disagree with you on a football question but, I got to disagree here, because the question is whether it's dirty within the NFL rules today, and whether the hit was illegal (not whether he woke up intending to give Lawrence a concussion). I don't want to turn Shaiir into a villain. I agree with you that's an over-reaction. A similar thing happened with Myles Garrett helmet-slamming The Reindeer, remember that? He was vilified. Garrett isn't a villain or a bad guy, he's a football player who did something violent and un-called-for in the heat of the moment. But at this point, it's pretty well forgotten I think, because it wasn't and hasn't since been a pattern of Garretts. But, just as Garrett suffered consequences, Shaiir will suffer consequences. And if he doesn't demonstrate a pattern of this, it will in time be forgotten.

Sooooo the hair is considered an extension of the player's body and is treated as such - a ball that touches a KR or PR's hair is a live ball; a player whose hair is touched while he's down is "down by contact" (the little towel however, does not count). Along with that, it is 100% legal to tackle a player by the hair, it is not a "horsecollar tackle". BUT, because the hair of a player is an "extension of his body", it is just as much a hold to restrain a defender by his hair as it is to restrain him by his neck or his arm or his jersey. So I think what Hollins did was NOT allowed and could have been penalized. On the other hand he just kind of grabbed and let it pull through his hand, so just like a defender gets away with it if he holds an arm and lets it slowly move through his hand, it's likely to be considered "incidental contact". You can see 59 having words with Hollins about it. Actually he turns to have words with Hollins about it before Josh breaks the plane Yes, by rule that was holding but Hollins did let him pull free and let go so

I'm gonna put this here, though I considered "talking head says something about the Bills". But as a former NFL QB and the son of an NFL QB, I do think Simms knows more than your random talking head This should take you to 50 minutes, which is where they start talking about the Bills. Simms has been quite critical of the Bills offense even when it was near the top of the league as in 2022, saying it was far too dependent upon Josh Allen to do everything (create in the passing game, pass for everything, be their best rusher). He sees this Bills team as "different", able to score in multiple ways. Interesting listen, check it out.

Pickens. That Wilson pick was entirely on Pickens losing track of the fact that within 5 yds of the LOS it's fair game for the DB to be physical

What did Collinsworth say to justify inserting Mahomes into that play? Oh, is THAT what that comment was about? I could NOT figure that out.

I would venture to say at this stage of his career, Poyer is not as good.

I mean, he's Our Guy, so it's nice to see Damar getting some loooove, but there must be an element of "I've heard of him". I feel the same way about a number of the other names. I visit nfl.com all the time. They have .pdfs of the box score that give a first-half breakdown. I also enjoy the highlight clips. then some of the nexgen stats are cool. I'm not hanging out there voting for probowl or something. He has played well for the Bills this year. There are 64 starting safeties in the league. The question is, has he played better than 62 of the other starting safeties in the league, that he's leading the pro-bowl voting ahead of them?

Mike Schopp is weird, and I mean that in a bad way.

Sherfield is currently on the Vikings roster. Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "unrosterable player"? He's on his 7th year in the NFL. He spent 3 years with the Cardinals when they were a crap team, but as soon as he had the chance to choose, he's played for SF (10-7, conf. championship); MIA (9-8, WC); BUF (11-6, Div); MIN (currently 10-2 and 5th seed). So not only does he keep getting signed to NFL rosters, he's able to choose to sign with quality teams who expect to contend, he's active on game day, and he plays significant snaps. Yeah he's not a star, but he's a "glue guy", a strong STer and a good blocker. What DO you mean by "unrosterable player"?

I agree. It's not a schtick. He's like Popeye, "I Yam what I Yam" He boxed out like an NBA star. Poor DB was *right there* and had no chance.

I don't think so, but let me put it this way....if Mack goes home alone, it's entirely his choice. He comes across as kind, genuine, individualistic, competent, confident, and quirky. Add that to his biceps and....Yowza. Maybe not to the Plastic set, but to one slice of chickdom (and it's not a small slice), that's incredibly attractive. So there's a video of him walking into the Bills facility for Sunday's game in this "Weird Science" getup. Seems he's doing some month to month "Fast Facts Friday" Instagram challenge. October musta been domestic tips. November was science, and the wig and stenciled lab coat were part of his get-up for filming those. Diet coke geyser: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DC7bq12yPDG/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet Become Waterproof: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDAeJ8fROkG/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet I like it even better now that I know he had a purpose with that get-up, it wasn't just a "fashionista fit". Yeah, they're standard "science experiment" stuff you can find on Youtube, but I'm seeing a message. He's saying "yo! You like to be competent? You like to mess around with science and be a little geeky and make a mess? Sure! You can do that and still be an NFL football player! See here! I may get an Insta account just to follow this dude.

He is still the only one saying "thrown down a flight of stairs", including the presumably-most-interested-party, the mom

I dunno - I can see the difference between a "push" and a "bump" being somewhat in the eye of the beholder, especially in the eyes of a protective mother. I can also see an intentional push, under slick and slippery conditions, having more serious consequences than intended. Like I push you thinking you'll just need to take a step back, but you happen to step back onto a banana peel at the top of the set of stairs and over you go. I didn't know about the banana peel. That kind of thing. One thing I would bet money I need on, is that there were likely dozens if not hundreds of fans falling down some steep, snow-packed steps and having to stop their own fall, all over the stadium - with no pushing involved. It seems to me that the stadium used to hire enough Bills fans and give out enough stuff (tickets and such) that the stadium actually got pretty well cleared. Now they're paying a sum of money to a subcontractor who takes their cut and then hires as many people as they can with what's left, and it doesn't seem as though the job ever gets finished.

The mom said they "dealt with" police, which may mean they made a police report. If so, that should be publicly available under FOIA, yes?

AB seems to be the only one who is saying something about "threw little girl down the stairs". The most partisan person (the mom) says "pushed".

You know, if I had a daughter who had been battling cancer for close to 3 years, had a relapse in May 2023, and is now cancer free again, I would be "overprotective" at the "Death Star" level. You could call that being a Karen if you like, you say Karen, I just say "Mother".

I didn't find the mom's actual account of what happened, can you share? Edit: OK, found account above, and "drunk Bills fan decided to pass my husband and I and thought it was cool to push our daughter" sounds more like bad judgement/incidental contact that had an outsize impact because of the conditions.