Beck Water

Yeah, we could use someone to “spill the tea”, But Mupp, there’s a difference between a workout and a medical…the teams may be asking to review his medical records and to give him a physical, or to review a physical and test results by a “neutral” physician …. But unless he actually works out it could be hard to see how that will translate into his speed, acceleration, ability to cut, and whether he might actually be able to contribute to a playoff push or playoffs THIS season.

“Only Josh Allen can beat the Bills” Throw picks in key places, it happens Speaking of which, has White really no other options than to throw into tight coverage? He should have been picked like 3 times already.

To hear the announcers tell it, he’s All That and more. “Mike White, Standing tall in the pocket, throwing a pass…”

They do, but I’m thinking I might need to mute these announcers and try to find a Vikes radio broadcast or something. They’re getting pretty ridiculous on Mike White.

And that’s an opinion, to which you are entitled. But when you start dunkin’ on a Bills player who just had 2 good games for us with “more mistakes than good plays” blah blah blah, expect to be asked to “show your work”. That’s really Weak Fan Sauce when he’s playing well for the Bills, even if you do legit think he’s a backup-grade player and we need an upgrade. (I’d like an upgrade myself) It won’t be from me today, though. I plan to sit here, appreciate the Christmas decor, quaff tasty adult beverages, and enjoy the games.

Well, that went nowhere. At least the Vikes got a field goal

Vikings trying too hard for a big play off that pick. I swear, I was just getting tired of the “washing” Mike White was getting from the announcers and thinking about “but that Bills game last year….” and theire you go…..THE PICK

Interesting. Is that White in the Hawks jersey then?

I think I'm outta here. You like to toss around words like "organizational apologist" while being an "organizational critic" of what? The Bills somehow "failing" to "protect Cole from himself" how? By locking him in a room, deprived of internet access and cell phones? It's on the Bills to "manage" Cole's free speech decisions? Enjoy your world. It must be unique. As for the rest, we aren't going to agree - Cole's speed to run deeper routes thus his YPC and YAC - his ability to get 1D- were in decline all season, not just when he injured his ribs and for the usual healing time afterwards. I'd bet his GPS showed a decline. If he were still Cole of 2020, he'd still be here.

If he's not even working out for teams, I think you're correct. I think it's due diligence to talk to the guy, but I hope all the PR around this isn't a distraction.

Is this just assuming that all 3 teams have made or will make him competitive offers? I know Rapoport and Schefter get fed a lot of info from agents, but this seems a bit unlikely. How can we sign the guy for this season if he isn't even working out to show he's ready to play? That would be stupid. That's not even a point I'm debating, so I don't know why you're responding to me.

I wouldn't say we "defended the run just fine" without him, but we had a couple of really bad run defense games with him. One was GB 2nd half where IMHO we expected them to pass and played accordingly. Fact does remain we had a 3 game stretch of bad run D with Edmunds in. One of them we were missing Milano N=8 with, N=3 without, so inappropriate for a t-test but still looks pretty marked difference against the pass (larger than the std deviation) Vikes game where he went out included in "with" Cheers

Jets at Minny for most of the country. https://506sports.com/ Suggestion: just start a thread near game time Problem is, I don't think most of the country will get Fish at 49ers so it might not draw the discussion. Agree it's a key game for us though. I don't get it - is Wilson the one in the lead, wearing the Hawks sweatshirt? Or is it Mike White, in which case how does it show they hate Zack Wilson? Please help the confused.

I see your point, but who would have thought the Chiefs would lose to the Colts? There are always those unexpected games.

It's been said elsewhere. It's not the YPG that are the problem, it's the consistency. I'll grant Davis that Josh is giving him a lot of high degree of difficulty catches, or targeting him on deep or sideline balls that are essentially, throw aways - balls where if he did manage to put on a burst or catch it with a guy's hands in his face, you would say "wow!". (this may be generous, since some of them would be catches perhaps if Gabe ran a better route). But then there have been 3-5 balls where you go "he really should have caught that", in addition to his 7 scored drops. Let's say he managed to catch 4 of them - he had only 3 scored drops as a rookie with a similar number of target as this season to date - he'd be at 60% completion, the Bills would have a couple more TDs and 1Ds, and this wouldn't be a convo. I grant that Davis has played a couple games hampered on an injured ankle, and people have hypothesized he's still hampered (despite not being on injury report). I point to what Allen said when Tim Graham asked about him playing through injury: "We’re 8-3. That's it. I'm out there," Allen said. "If anybody says they're playing injury-free in this league, they’re probably lying to you. Everybody’s battling injuries, battling bumps and bruises. If I’m going to be the guy that I think I am, I say I am and my teammates think I am, (then) I've got to go be that guy, so that's all there is to it."

Thanks for clarifying your point. I agree, long routes are intrinsically lower completion %. I'm not sure that's the case with Davis. To my eyes, Gabe has been running both intermediate (meaning 5-15 yd-ish) and deeper routes all season I haven't seen him on shorter routes, and of recent, as discussed elsewhere, I think Dorsey's play designs have featured either deep or very short routes. I'm sure some site breaks down WR targets by depth, but I can't find it. There's only one game this season (Baltimore) where Davis had fewer than 5 targets. He averages 6 targets per game, and that's in fact his median # of targets: 1 10 target game, 3 7 target games, 3 6 target games, 3 5 target games, 1 3 target game. Seems to me Davis has been a focal point most games. It's not like Dawson Knox, who has 5 games with 3 or fewer targets, or Isaiah McKenzie, ditto. I would say Davis low catch percentage is, in fact, to some extent a product of Josh making him a focal point most games - he can be quite well covered, and Josh will trust him to make a play and throw it in there, giving him a lot of contested catches. I commented on Thursday while watching the game "Josh is doing him no favors".

Barkley is a good player, no doubt. But QB is the most important position on the team, and at the time the Giants picked Barkley it seemed pretty clear that Eli was washed. LOL likewise. I was also intrigued by Mason Rudolph. Thank God I'm not the GM, either.

McKenzie converted 4 1D on his 5 receptions vs. the hated Cheatriots, the week after he converted 4 1D and a TD on his way to 103 Y/Sc for a much-needed road win against the Lions - and what you have to say as a fan is "More poor plays than good, I hope Beane finally sees this and kicks him to the curb". Jeebus. McKenzie is not a great or maybe even an average pro player. He is physically limited - a Smurf. Yes he makes mistakes. I'm pretty sure he has far more Homer fans than I, who would not ack that. I would be happy if we had a better WR on the roster this season (hint: Shakir is not it at present, despite your earlier paen exhaulting him), or if Beane upgrades next season. Here's the thing: all of our players make mistakes. Josh has been the King of Mistakes at times this season, throwing 2 INTs per game for 3 successive games, 2 of which we lost. He threw 2 4Q picks vs the Packers which would have given a better team a chance to get back in it one on the GB 3 yard line. On that play, McKenzie had his DB boxed on the R goal line and Josh could have placed a ball where it would be McKenzie, or No One instead of trying to force it to Gabe. Made it a 24-17 game with more than 6 minutes less, how often have we seen Rodgers pull those out of his hat? Josh threw a 3Q pick deep in Bills territory, to a place where Davis wasn't, that gave the Jets the lead 17-14 and they never gave it back. Josh threw a 4Q and an EZ pick in the RZ vs Minnesota. I don't say this to dunk on Josh, whom I love - but these are mistakes I remember because they directly and credibly impacted the outcome of the game in 2 of our 3 losses. Without them, we would arguably be 11-1 and headed for home field and a bye, not 9-3 and spinning the Prayer Wheel today for the Bengals to bail us out. And maybe if Josh targeted Knox or McKenzie more, both of whom are often open as outlets underneath (or just threw it away), there would be better outcomes, not worse. Meanwhile, folks like you who call yourself "fans" feel entitled to flap your lips and dunk on the guy, and paint anyone who points out the unreasonableness of your claims as some kind of blind homer. I'll make you the same challenge that I made Alphadog7 with his "made mistakes on his routes many times that cost us". If there are so many route running mistakes that cost us, surely they should be memorable enough for him to point a few of those route running mistakes out. Same to you. McK has a 70% catch % on 35 receptions, 5 TD, 25 1D. Does he have the production we all hoped for from the slot position? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. I can think of about 4. But if there are "more poor plays than good", surely an observant Bills fan such as yourself should be able to recall and point, oh, 30 or so of them out? You're coming across as a blind hater on a guy who, whatever his shortcomings may be, has contributed this season. The fact that you paint someone who can merely acknowledge good contributions as some kind of uber McKenzie homer seems to clinch that. SMDH.

Josh Allen high school freshman. 5'10, 130 lbs

I drank Irish whiskey after each score I plan to keep it up! I'm sorry but you must get a new free trial and repeat the experience for the next Bills game or we can't vouch for the possible repercussions

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. I wasn't trying to say they were "exclusive"? Point was made that Gabe Davis is actually doing pretty well in terms of yards per game, in fact he's in the top-32 WR, #27, so what more do Bills fans want out of the guy? Counter point: fans feel more consistency is needed from the #2. Higher catch %, fewer drops, and more consistent production game to game vs. 1 game with 171 yds and 6 games with <40 yds. You can see some of that in the stats by watching the top receiver list re-shuffle when sorted by receptions vs yards per game. Yes of course, if he had those things he'd have even higher yards per game, and that would be a Good Thing. Edit: and I feel I should point out that IMO, Gabe Davis is close to this. We're not talking about dozens of plays, we're talking about maybe 1 more catch in 3-4 games. I also feel that Josh plays a part in this, by consistently targeting Gabe on high degree of difficulty receptions, when he's in traffic or closely covered or lower percentage deep throws. I don't hold Gabe responsible for making the "oooohs" and "aaaaahs" plays that of course we'd like to see, but they would be genuinely top level receptions if he hauled them in. But he 's had a handful of catchable balls that the #2 WR on a top team really needs to secure.

McD has no direct experience of Rhodes in his exact system communicating with his guys. But I don't think McD wanted to "see what Rhodes can do". I think the plan was to play 100% nickel, in 100% or near 100% zone coverage, against a strong running team. I've been putting up the first Christmas decorations and dipping into the whiskey, so my recall is fuzzy, but I would expect them to have disguised coverage a lot as well to slow Mac Jones processing. Essentially, the Bills wanted to play PhD Zone with a run thumper CB, and Rhodes was a better fit because Elam's zone abilities are "progressing". Add in, likely they did want to give Elam 2+ weeks rest to put his ankle closer to right, Bonus.

I don't think it has to do with putting on some muscle because 1) Diggs did as well 2) Davis was running crisp routes at the start of the season No one has as crisp routes as Diggs, but Davis can break ankles. Remember the KC playoff game last season.

OK, I see that...#27 is clearly not sold on the backfield flow so Josh keeps it. I'm going to struggle to frame the question I have in a way that's answerable, so please bear with me while I flail around trying to frame this I think we have trouble with HB screen plays, and I think nobody buys them in part because of the run threat Josh poses. The DL isn't going to crash wholeheartedly into the backfield after Josh and let the RB release and catch the pass, because they're too worried that Josh will keep the ball, evade them in the backfield, and they'll be chasing his shoesoles down the field. TOf course, I could be incorrect, and it could be that we have "tells" or errors in execution because we don't practice them enough, or reasons I haven't thought of. But let me step back to Josh's read...#27 isn't sold on the backfield flow, and initially I think I see his eyes drawn to the backs. But very quickly, his eyes and #91 both shift to Josh, who is clearly the guy they're more concerned about. I'm wondering if it will be realistic for us to ever sell the backer on the backfield flow, because they're always mindful of Josh. If you're that backer, what would make the sale to you? Does that make any sense? PS that's a GREAT website by the way. Very clear explanations.

OK, so it's not just me. I was like "this? we're all psyched up about signing a guy who walks like this?"