Beck Water

Then the majority of Allen fans think incorrectly Allen running is part of the Bills arsenal of weapons and its impact on defenses is part of the game plan It has to be realized (and this is a point Kurt Warner and others have made) that on some "broken plays" where Allen runs or delays and makes a totally improbable throw, there is an "easy" button waiting for him in the form of a short throw with YAC to be made, but Allen seldom takes those when they are most effective (that is to say, immediately). We have seen both. Sometimes Allen misses the throw (wheel route to Hines). The problem is, other teams scout tendencies. Since it's been well known most of the season that Allen will ignore short quick completions with YAC in favor of trying to force the ball in to a double-covered receiver downfield, offenses play us accordingly. It's relatively hard to scheme up "easy completions" when there are 3 guys running routes and 5 DB in coverage plus a dime or LB who can choose what to do. Allen has spoken about this indirectly in his pre-Thursday night interview with Fitz. He said that the QB has to see the field as an extension of the OC and that has taken some time, but they're getting to a good place now. The implication is that Allen was NOT seeing the field as an extension of the OC at times. I think it's true that there has been a disconnect between Allen and Dorsey at times. In the words of Josh Allen, "Okay"

Like most people, Troy Vincent is complicated. As NFLPA President for 4 years, he did some good things, such as starting a program to prepare players for Life After Football, which became the "NFL Business Management and Entrepreneurial Program". He's also been a vocal advocate against domestic violence, speaking about his personal experience as a child. Then, as NFLPA president, he was accused of disclosing confidential personal and financial information about player agents to his business partner, to build his financial services company. In any event, Vincent hasn't been involved in the NFLPA for 14 years, so whether or not they're looking out for the players no longer involves him. In the NFL: Vincent was said to be the source of the false "deflategate" info that the footballs were all under-inflated by 2 lbs and the original 4 game Brady suspension ( a conflict of interest). Florio broke this. He is not a Vincent fan, it's quite clear. I think it's reasonable to suppose that any Buffalo Bills front office personnel still left from 2004-2006 would not be Vincent fans either, because of the Losman incident. But I don't know who those people would be. I thought McDermott and Beane and the Pegulas did a pretty thorough housecleaning. It's pretty clear that the "EASY" button for the NFL here, was going to be if the Bills and Bengals went back on the field and finished the game. So I don't find it far-fetched at all that someone from the NFL, and Vincent is in line to be that someone but would Goodell be far behind? tried to push to make that happen. I don't believe that Buck and Aikman just "made ***** up" about that 5 minutes to warm up, nor that Aponte and McDermott and Taylor were on the phone for a long time outside the locker room because the NFL was in agreement that it would be insensitive and inhumane to continue. Yeah, No Way McDermott said that (sacriligious - and if he in fact believed that he Lord came down and said 'play the game', then McDermott would consider himself bound to Follow the Lord), No Way Beane said that he's far too "smooth" verbally and politically (a good thing). They've also been very "loose lips sink ships" and buttoned up about their organization.

Actually, a player has died on the field before: Chuck Hughes, Detroit Lions, 1971 However, only 1 minute was left in the game. The Bears were leading 28 to 23. So they just let the clock run out. I think legally and medically, a patient who is undergoing attempts to revive them is not considered dead until those efforts are discontinued. But I understand the point. By the "player died because breathing/heart stopped" definition, Belicheck spoke of an incident in 1997 with Reggie Brown. In his case, the cause was neurological, a brainstem/spinal cord injury. Brown received CPR on the field because he wasn't breathing, but woke up 45 minutes later in the hospital and was able to breathe. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2017/12/22/breathing-reggie-brown-relives-injury/108850952/ Again, it was the 4th Q, ~ halfway through, with the Lions leading 13-10. But they did continue the game, which ended in a Lions win 13-10 That in fact, may have been one reason why the NFL delayed making a decision to suspend the game....they may have hoped Hamlin would regain consciousness in the hospital and send a message to the team and the teams, and the Bills would change their minds and feel they could "play for 3". But 1997 was a different era of the NFL and McDermott/Taylor are different coaches than Bobby Ross, and Bill Parcells - who was said to refer to guys who went to the training room more than he thought they should as "the player" rather than by name or by number. What was different about the Bengals game, was that for the first time two coaches with the philosophy of caring about their players and building a bond of love came face to face with a life-or-death tragedy. If they were sincere about walking the walk they talk and "some things are bigger than football", then the right thing to do was say "our focus should be on our injured brother, we can't continue without risk of emotional and physical injury to the players, we got to call the game". I believe McDermott said that outcomes (he didn't say, but I assume being held to forfeit, losing a game check, and dropping to #3 in playoff seeding) were discussed in the locker room and the consensus viewpoint was "we don't care, we're not finishing the game". Then Taylor and his captains came over and made it clear they were on the same page. So in the end, with both head coaches and the players on both teams in agreement, the NFL had the choice between "act like a jerk, or show class". It was pretty clear at that point which side of the PR coin was which. I can't fault the NFL for delaying a decision and talking things through. But I think Troy Vincent made a poor choice to throw ESPN and their crew under the bus and act as though it was never in doubt that the NFL would suspend the game, because I think there is evidence that there was, in fact, doubt and discussion (from the NFL side): 1) Burrow warming up 2) Diggs giving the team a pep talk and the defense putting their helmets on 3) Buck saying both teams had been given 5 minutes to warm up and they were going to continue the game 4) no one from the NFL reaching out and correcting ESPN

Yeah, but no "Deep Throat" from the Bengals has been "off the record" contradicting Troy Vincent's "that would insensitive" story 'Course officially, no one from the Bills has done that either... That would be the reason to fear "retribution" of a subtle sort

Florio, who I have varied opinions about, makes a reasonable point By basically pointing at the experienced and well-connected ESPN broadcast team of Joe Buck and their rules expert Parry as basically saying what they did on air without any league source or justification, the league basically set up an “Us vs Them” situation with ESPN. If the league and Vincent has been willing to acknowledge that there was a lot of confusion in an unprecedented situation, there’s a standard protocol that was going to be implemented until it became evident that this wasn’t a standard situation and it called for a different approach - no one would be talking about this. But by trying to paint the NFL entirely as a sensitive, kindly organization wholly on top of a basically unprecedented situation, and ESPN as full of baloney, Vincent triggered the Press Reflex to research the story and get to the bottom of it.

Same for Diggs getting the players to huddle up and giving them an impassioned speech, and the Bills players defensive players putting their helmets on. Don’t see that happening if no one in a position of authority (NFL) hadn’t told them they were expected to warm up and get back to the game.

So Troy Vincent played for the Bills for 3 years from 2004 to 2006. He is the player who broke JP Losman’s leg during his rookie year. The whole bit about Troy Vincent being the wrong person in the wrong position at the wrong time, “he wants to be the hero but he will never take accountability”, sounds like someone who has formed an opinion about Troy Vincent from personal experience with him. - possibly while Vincent was in Buffalo and did not take responsibility for breaking the leg of a red-shirted player who was intended to be the team’s QB of the future. I’m not sure who that would be, but probably someone who’s been around the Bills for 14-15 years. Edit: I agree with you that would ABSOLUTELY not be McDermott who said that about the Lord coming down, pretty sure he would consider that. blasphemous. Beane is also much too politically savvy to go “off the record” with stuff that might put him in an adversarial position with the NFL or disadvantage his team with the NFL, and it doesn’t sound like his word use.

Oh I agree with you there. Please do not use the name Rob Boras and the term “offensive coordinator” as a title applying to that name near me. At least give me a minute to leave the room and shut the door behind myself, or put on some good noise cancelling earbuds, first It was, and there were objections that it disadvantaged candidates from winning teams, so they changed it.

Does anyone think this is a good idea? (Giving Murray significant input into the next head coach selection - not just “talk to these guys, give us your impressions” but input?) To be fair, he might focus on his wife too, or is she his GF? What the hell was that about, can anyone explain to me? I can’t blame LaFleur for having a player who can’t control himself when he’s triggered…these guys are all walking a fine line with control. We’ve had 2 players here who struggled with it during their careers, Incognito and Jerry Hughes.

There are a lot of posters here who are scared of everyone and everything. Somehow the Bills have tied a franchise-best W record of 13 wins (previously achieved by the same coaching staff in 2020) while: -our HC makes horrible in game coaching decisions -our OC can’t scheme guys open -our DC can’t make adjustments or use our DBs properly -all three inexplicably don’t play the best players on offense and sometimes on defense -or they play them in the wrong position (see Edmunds, Tremaine) -we have no talent on OL or at WR I’m sure I missed some stuff It’s perplexing to me how this happened

LOL you don’t get to choose I think McDermott feels Frazier deserves a shot, and Frazier feels he deserves a shot, but someone who is hiring a HC has to agree I tend to agree with you In fact, if I were Dorsey, I would be “No Thanks, More to Learn First” but There are only 32 of these jobs in the world, and people who eventually want one, tend to seize any offer they get

That INT had to be huge for his confidence. It's the half-speed cuts and COD that have me thinking "playing scared" because he looks faster and smoother in the occasional clips we see of practice. But you're right, who knows? if it's physical, mental or both. I did think Tre was very affected by what happened with Hamlin. He pretty well acknowledged what a trauma it's been to him after the game. I think he's getting surgery this week

I mean, were they wrong? That was a pretty questionable "horse collar tackle" on Q Williams that gifted the Fins a 1st down on what would have been 3rd and 7, and put them into eventual FG range And that's against Joe freakin' Flacco who was looking kinda cooked back in 2018.

This is WAY too convoluted for me. 0) I don't give a rat's whisker what Miami fans think of us Bills fans or this site. Regarding the Fins: 1) The Fins had to cook our brains to win by 2 points in September when we were starting Jaquan Johnson at safety and lost Benford halfway thru the game, not to mention our starting C the whole game, then our OL dropping like flies to the point where we had a guy playing the final series on a torn ACL. 2) I didn't think the 2nd game "felt" as close as it actually was in terms of the score. We gave up a big play for a TD to Waddle, on what seemed to be miscommunication/broken coverage; then we had them punting on 4th and 10 and wound up gifting them a 1D on a totally assinine RTK penalty on Cam Lewis. which led to a go-ahead TD and gave the Fins the lead for the 1st time in the game with 2:30 left in the 3rd 3) Then, we let them widen their lead with a strip-sack 4) After that, we pulled our heads out of our asses and got to work by tieing with a TD/2 pt and grinding out a long drive with a FG to win I think Raheem Mostert was huge for MIA because he posed a good run threat just by himself. I don't know if MIA has as good of a run threat relying on ?Wilson and ?Ahmed?. Though Wilson did have a good game against the Jets. For the Bills, going into the 2nd MIA game down a guard, then losing Morse halfway through and needing to have the backup G switch to 3rd string C while a T played G was a big cause of the 3Q punt-a-palooza in the 3rd and the strip sack, but we sorted it out eventually. Having our OL healthy is big for us. We were able to limit Hill OK playing with Jaquan Johnson at Safety and half the game with a PS rookie CB during our 1st meeting. So I'm not happy about being down to our 3rd string at Safety, and I wish they'd sort what to do as far as playing order for Jackson and Elam, but we've managed before. I think Tua is a good QB when he's "on", but I'm not sure it's in his interest to play, though I'm sure he wants to. There was talk he may have "fudged" his baseline concussion testing to make it easier to pass (supposedly Alabama is known for this), making it a poor diagnostic tool. I think MIA has the potential to be a better team than their 9-8 record suggests, but there's the saying "you are what your record says you are" too, and 5 of the Fins losses came with Tua playing. In fact, the Fins have more losses with Tua playing than with Bridgewater + Thompson playing. Hopefully we keep our heads out of our arses, keep our OL in the game, and play smart.

So right now, Shakir gets about 18 snaps and 1 target per game - 1 target per 18 offensive plays on the field McKenzie gets about 37 snaps per game, and gets just over 4 targets per game - or around twice the targets Shakir gets. That would beg the question "why?" to me? You could get into conspiracy stuff where the coaches are just stupid and unfairly keeping Shakir off the field while giving McKenzie snaps he hasn't earned in practice or play because he's "earned it" through longevity, or you could assume that the coaches are distributing playing time according to what they see in practice and in games and McKenzie has earned it there. McKenzie has been averaging ~3 receptions and 30 ypg which ain't good. Shakir around 11.5 ypg and 0.7 receptions per game, which even if you double it, is lower production than McKenzie per target, so....would he do more, if he got more snaps and more targets? IDK. I do know I'd like to see Shakir come on, because Lord knows we need more out of our WRs than we've had at times, and I'd like to feel like our WR development pipeline has some "flow" to it. Because it's cold, he said 🙄 I mean, he has 20 receptions for 102 yds against Buffalo this season....which sounds scary except that was over 2 games. He's gonna get some catches and some yards,but we did kind of limit him. Now maybe being down to our 3rd string safety and Tre White (IMO) playing scared will cause problems, IDK. I guess I could type less and just say "IDK"

So TBH - I find the distinction between Stage 3 and Stage 4 to be a little "Fuzzy" https://static.www.nfl.com/image/upload/v1629471746/league/umfva5wnr32ozmukz5jd.pdf Stage 3 says the player can practice with the team for 30 minutes of "sport specific exercise" Stage 4 says the player participates in "non contact football activities" (throwing catching and running). Difference? Anyway, if Tua is in Stage 3, he can practice on Weds with a red no-contact jersey, and assuming no adverse effects, be cleared on Thursday.

It was a really good catch. He came back to the QB and all. Nicely done, and a nice YAC too. "Near big play" we don't count those for Davis or the other guys I mean, we're all waiting for that, right? Every since Crowder and McKenzie both went out vs. the Ravens, and Shakir had 2 really nice catches for 23 yds, and then couldn't play the following week vs. the Steelers and Shakir had 3 catches on 5 targets for 75 yds AND a nice KR. We were all like "OK, Here We Go, Shakir!" For whatever reason, it hasn't been working out. He sees his snaps - has been averaging about 18 per game - occasionally I see him open, or see him blocking, and he gets an average of 1 target per game. But I also see him signalling "open" when he's clearly not and sometimes whiffing blocks and stuff (see more good blocks as the season goes on). Honest questions: what does "earned it" in quotes mean, and what does "this kind of stuff" mean?

So I wonder what "in the building" means to access

Correct

McKenzie: 2 receptions on 3 targets. 56% of the snaps (33 snaps) Shakir: 1 reception on 2 targets 25% of the snaps (15 snaps) McKenzie has kind of been a bit of a Patriot killer or at least a Patriot kneecap biter - 5 receptions on 5 targets, 44 yds in earlier meeting this season, 11 receptions on 12 targets for 125 yds in 2nd meeting last season, 3 receptions on 3 targets and 3 rushes for 74 yds/scrimmage last season's playoff game. So I would think Belicheck would have tried to limit him. I would LOVE to see Shakir flourish and prove that Beane's WR talent pipeline for this team is alive and well, but what exactly have you seen that leads you to be "unsurprised" if Shakir rises to "the top of the depth chart"?

Um, there is normally no football activity on Monday for guys who did not play. The most football activity there is for anyone is "corrections" of mistakes and miscues, done in shells, for players who played the previous game. Then Tuesday is a normal "NFL Day Off". Players may get medical treatment, do a light lift or "recovery" aerobics. Not until Wednesday will we know whether or not Tua is participating in practice or any football activities. But not participating M or T means little.

Just a gentle reminder that you, and you, and you (looking around the board) can all show agency. I would not for a moment diminish the power of Faith and Prayer, but as a friend of mine once said - "sometimes Prayer works best with tools in your hands and skill to use them". Learn CPR, and support the public availability of AEDs at schools, amateur sporting events, professional sporting venues, libraries, and yes, houses of Worship.

Thought that's what the beer and the bowling ball shots were for

OK, listened to the press conference. A few notes: -the Doctors referred a couple times to "a transport" and "a transport team", which is usually how medical professionals reference a flight with medical capabilities on board. I think it was referenced that one of the Bills team physicians and trainers had stayed in Cincinnati with Damar. My guess would be them, plus an emergency physician licensed to practice in Ohio, maybe an airway physician (just in case), a full "crash cart" of defibrillator, cardiac medications, intubation supplies, oxygen etc. I can't imagine anything else because it would be hella embarrassing if they save the guys life only to put him on a plane and have some rare altitude-induced complication take him down. Medical transport to airport, EMS-equipped transport flight to Buffalo, medical transport to Buffalo General. -Damar was extubated early Friday morning and walked his first "circuit" of the ICU that afternoon! -Criteria for release from ICU were all organ systems stable, no need for critical respiratory care or intensive nursing. He reached that milestone this am. -Defer to new care team in Buffalo for all plans regarding rehabilitation timeline, release from hospital, further testing and diagnosis -No damage to cervical spine, they emphasized "neurologically intact" and walking with normal gait (although still quite weak) -Deflected all questions about whether he would be able to RTP in the NFL: said it's premature to discuss RTP until diagnosis is complete -Deferred questions about his rehab plan and whether he could return to Highmark as a spectator during playoffs, to his new care team of physicians in Buffalo. I hope they put him in a great big room at Buffalo General to accommodate all the teammates who want to visit him, otherwise the Bills are gonna have to be playing rock-paper-scissors or drawing lots.

I can see it now. Damar: "When can I leave here and go see my boys?" Doctors making Sunday rounds: "Patience, Damar, you're still pretty weak. Let us take care of you until you're a little stronger." [Later that day: Damar jumps up and down and screams like a normal Bills fan watching the game, setting off every alarm in the ICU] Doctors making Monday rounds: "OK, Damar, You Can Go Now" https://www.koat.com/article/damar-hamlin-update-doctors/42435123 link to video conference