Beck Water

They definitely were separate Achilles tears, different sides. That's why I was wondering if he tore the 2nd one because he had unconsciously compensated for the first - maybe not because of the strength of the Achilles but other reasons (flexibility, strength) He's only got 1 more year in the league than Edwards and Bates (26 1/2 next fall) and 2 more than Connor McGovern (26 next fall). Does calendar age really make that much difference for an OLman? As OL starters, I go with the axiom you can't improve by keeping things the same. The R side of our line was not good enoughlast year, and either Brown backslid, OR, he looked better playing next to Darryl Williams at G in 2021 than Bates in 2022 which would say something for quality.

Yep, that's my sense. In other words, it's his subjective opinion that he's trying to quantify numerically, to make it appear empirical and data-driven. 11 or so years ago, our family was trying to make a decision on where to send our child to middle and high school. I had us each write down our "gut impressions" of the schools and rank them in order best match to least match, entirely based on our subjective opinion. This wasn't good enough for my spouse, a multi-degreed engineer. Spouse came up with 6 categories on which we were each independently to rank each school numerically from 1 to 5, then sum the scores to produce an "objective, empirical" ranking. I did my honest best. Wanna hear the spoiler? The numerical rankings we each came up with differed - but exactly matched our individual subjective ranks. Huh. I'm not trying to diss Mike Clay on his subjective opinion. The opinion of a knowledgeable person is always worth hearing. I just don't care for the modern trend for trying to add gravitas to opinions by digitizing them.

You aren't scrutinizing facts, that's my point. Facts are a complete story, positive and negative; omitting positive results when pointing to negative results is not factual. It's a form of crafting a narrative, which is a form of scapegoating, Mr Clown. Do whatcha like, but I'll call it the way I see it as well; don't expect to dowhatcha like while telling me to"slow down on people who share my viewpoint". I'm done here though.

So the Rams actually opened a 21-day window for him to practice with the team, but then didn't activate him. That's the story I guess we'll never hear - had he lost too much "game shape" during his time on IR recovering from his 2 concussions? - did he start having symptoms again when he started practicing so he couldn't be activated? - was it a "business decision" on the Rams side, where the Rams had just lost 6 games in a row and decided to shut down Matthew Stafford, so the risk of bringing him back and having him concussed a third time and potentially carried on the IR rolls outweighed any competitive benefit? - was it a "business decision" on the part of Edwards and his team, to ensure that he was healthy at the start of FA?

So a point worth remembering is that Ike started 10 games at LG for the Bills in 2021. When the Bills abandoned the Cody Ford Project after 3 games, Boettger was their first choice ahead of Feliciano and Bates. They then experimented with Feliciano for two games, switched Feliciano to RG and moved Boettger back to LG when Brown was injured, but then they stuck with Boettger at LG until he got hurt. Dawkins really liked playing with him, coining "you say Boettger, I say Stallion" and both Beane and McDermott referred to his injury as "very significant" in the same sentence as losing Tre White. Now, that's not to say in the grand scheme of things, we shouldn't be looking for better but the Bills did like him better than Bates, who started at RG all last season, and better than Feliciano, who started at C for the Giants all 15 games (though the G-men didn't bring him back) Primarily - I think it's an unanswered question whether he can regain the same form playing on 2 repaired Achilles. Sometimes athletes compensate for an injury on one side, making the other side more likely to be injured. Then when both go, they can't get back to the same level. More than just a $50k signing bonus, the Bills have him at the very lowest level of contract, a VSB contract where he's paid vet minimum but counts against the cap as a 2nd year player. I think that reflects similar uncertainty in minds around the league about whether he can come back from the 2nd Achilles.

Well, we all know that players can develop their technique beyond what they show pre-draft, too, and clearly Edwards did so. I hadn't thought about Edwards as a potential RT add, but given that Kromer worked with him - "at all 4 positions" as the man himself said - Kromer ought to know if Edwards has potential at RT that might let him compete or even put him ahead of Brown. I like the add even more now. I thought it was interesting that Edwards declined to discuss his concussions last season.

No, you're not mis-remembering at all that Ike had 2 Achilles injuries. The first was in college his Sr year (2017) - the other side from the one he tore last season. He was signed as an UDFA but not until mid-May and the recovery is probably why. I don't think it kept him out of training camp his rookie season. Come to think of it, that 9 month recovery timeline might be one reason the Bills expected him back earlier in the season, though they did say he'd had a setback. In his interview (linked above) he mentioned that unless the OLman is a C, Kromer tries everyone at all 4 other positions. So evidently he had the opportunity to compete at RT. You may be correct playing at LG was just an attempt to put the best 5 on the field and Havenstein was better, but I looked up his draft and combine report and a lot of it sorta translates to me as "projects at G in the NFL" https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-edwards/32004544-5733-7483-3a0b-c9cc2e7a9e47 Stuff like "slides are quick but might not gain enough ground" "outside hand gets erased opening path to his QB" etc. But it is notable that when they were down Whitworth and their swing T, the Rams did start Edwards at LT for a game, and it wasn't a disaster.

Well, that's definitely true. Who was it, Pat Shurmur, who quipped "I don't know any QB who says 'Hey, let 'em come up the middle, I can handle it' I just don't know that the C and G are especially more important to a QB like Josh. Obviously the Blind Side is still critical, and a number of Josh's critical sacks and strip sacks have come rolling to the R. But for sure, the QB can't step up into the pocket if there isn't a pocket.

Oh, intriguing thought. I'm gonna go with "no", in that typically if a guy has the tools to succeed at T in the league, that's where they put him. And typically, if you sign a guy because he's looked good at one position, you don't want to ask him to learn a new position. However, fun fact - Edwards actually started a game at LT in 2021 when both Whitworth and his backup Noteboom were ruled out with Covid. The Rams won, 30-23. Stafford was not sacked. I agree with you that the Bills have a type. On the other hand, when drafting and signing FA to type produces a sub-par OL with a non-existent run game year after year, at what point does the FO need to evaluate whether their type is the best fit for what they're trying to accomplish?

So your solution on what to do if the draft were today, is to trade (what? a draft pick? a player? who?) for an aging and recently-injured former great with a high salary like Hopkins or Evans, then spend more cap $$ on a 1 year rental of Bobby Wagner, who has fallen off in coverage the last year or so? Then use the late round picks we have left after trading for Hopkins to try to upgrade from Oliver, a former 1st round pick, and Spencer Brown, a 3rd round pick? Brilliant. Why didn't Beane think of that? PS Kyle Allen is here as our current backup QB

I agree with you about what they should do Objectively assessing Beane's MO, I think his pressers translate to "we're gonna give Brown another year" I think making our biggest FA signing a G and bringing in a formerly good G to compete signals we're not gonna be drafting a G I hope I'm wrong.

What Dawkinstein said and @davefan66 as well, and no, running out to buy an Apple won't solve some of your problems. You need to isolate your computer from the internet and disinfect it. Depending upon how good the hackers were, and how good you are, this may be a job for professionals. My SIL had good luck with Geek Squad. If the computer is old enough that you might consider replacement anyway, replace it. You also need to change ALL your passwords, especially passwords to banks, ASAP. Also change your security questions. Don't give the same answers to the new ones. Make up *****. "Where did you meet your wife?" "Tattooine" "What was your first car?" "Austin Martin" that kind of thing. Invest in a good secure password program and keep track of the questions and answers there (and keep it OFF your infected computer). Don't forget to change router and modem passwords and update their firmware if not current. Lock your credit with all 3 credit bureaus. This will prevent thieves from opening new credit cards in your name. Be aware that malware may be embedded in any backups you make of docs or data, so those have to be scanned with good software before you let them back on an uninfected machine. Be aware that the very best (or worst depending upon perspective) malware will disable anti-malware software and produce a specious "no malware found" report. Good luck. Because of my streaming habits we got trojan infections on the computer I used until we set up a separate computer to run Linux for the purpose. Most of the malware barfs on Linux.

LOL are you actually, seriously, using the fact that a player, or more than 1 player, failed to come back from serious injury to argue that they weren't good players before they were injured? So if a player rips both knees out, or has back surgery, or only plays one season after coming back from an Achilles tear at age 30, it somehow is supposed to prove they were bad before they were injured? C'Mon Man. You're becoming a caricature. ChiefsPlanet LOL the fan site most Chiefs fans regard as a cesspool of bad opinions and fan rabidity

It's not gonna work. He's not gonna stop because you say that. 50 of us could say that and he's not gonna stop

Ha Ha. For definitions of "always" equal to "only in 2022, when he was rehabbing the achilles he tore late in the 2021 season. Seriously, I don't see the Bills re-up'ing him if they didn't think he'd be good to go for TC.

I'm really not clear on that bit about the G and C being more important. I think with the O operating so much out of shotgun, and with Josh sometimes dropping back from that, the DL can go wide and get a clear bead on Josh if the OTs don't have good lateral movement. Obviously I'm trying to wipe it from my memory banks, but I seem to recall the Bengals rushing wide from the right side and just beating Brown like a drum.

I’ll also say this. There is a difference between one person in a group or organization undergoing an emotionally stressful event, and the whole organization suffering it. In the former case the rest of the organization can hold them up - surround them with support and cover for them if needed. I think the Bills did that for Knox the first month or so of the season. When the whole group underwent the same event, it’s a different situation. The Bills could have been energized and inspired collectively, but they weren’t. End of story.

-Why do you think Boettger would start the season on PUP? He was healthy enough to be active and take snaps in one game; he was also healthy enough to be re-signed to a 1 yr deal. Remember PUP is ONLY for players who are not physically able to take a single rep in training camp. Once they do, they become ineligible for PUP. -Why do you think the team would rely on Doyle as LT/RT depth, when he is rehabbing from an ACL tear that was probably operated on in mid-Oct, and may well start TC on PUP? I don't care if an OL is taken on Day 3, but if that's the only OL taken, I'll share your disappointment. I'm preparing for disappointment though I agree with you, I don't think they take an OG in the 1st round on Day 1.

Say more about Campbell and the differences you see between Edmunds and Campbell in how the defense would function. I know he's slower (a 4.6 guy) but the OBL crew and Maddy Glab were discussing him and described him as very cerebral, very fast to process, and solid in coverage. Especially his first two years here, and somewhat his third year, the knock on Edmunds seemed to be that he had incredible athleticism and the reach of a pteryactyl, but struggled to figure out how to apply them.

There's a chance Morse gets concussed again and decides to hang up the cleats any time, but I hope not. There's a big difference between "some experience at center" and a top C in the league, a level Morse played at last year. Edwards didn't just have "a concussion", he had two concussions in 2 weeks, that put him on IR and then when they opened his 21 day window and tried to bring him back, he couldn't make it. So he basically lost 3/4 of a season to 'a concussion', which is actually more worrisome to me than multiple concussions that were recovered from more rapidly. I think Edwards would be binned as a "high risk, high reward" signing - if he stays healthy, you get a SB-team level OG, but he could get concussed again and go out for the season at any time.

I did, too. And between Crowder and McKenzie the first few games, we were getting OK production from the slot. We do! You got one with great hands and a strong release we can sign for $2M or draft in the 4th round?

I agree, it was mystifying to watch. I'm just a bit puzzled on what, exactly, the people laying it on the coaches believe the coaches shoulda done. It was said that the coaches could tell the players were dragging and that they'd tried to adjust the week's schedule to "get things right". Obviously whatever they tried, either wasn't the right thing or wasn't enough.

I 100% agree with you it would be prudent, and in fact would have liked to see the Bills do that 2 years ago (yes, I'm still salty about Boogie Basham over Creed Humphrey, why do you ask?). However, and we'll have to wait and see what Edwards contract is to get an idea how the Bills see him - the fact that the Bills have signed two guys who are at best, upgrades and at worst, solid competition for Bates and Boettger says to me that a draft pick who's attracted enough attention and is pro-ready enough to not slide through onto the PS are unlikely. The Bills typically have 9 OL: the 5 starters, two backup G (one of them a G/C), two backup T - one swing, one who can play as a 6th OL They just paid Connor McGovern their biggest FA $$ of the season - he's the frontrunner to start one G position (initially, LG) and has played C. They may have a battle between Bates and Edwards for RG, but they're unlikely to slice Bates and count 100% on a guy who missed 13 games with a concussion last season if Edwards wins. I guess they may cut Boettger - he's on a 1 year, Veteran Salary Benefit contract with only a $76k bonus to take him into camp? Maybe I'm just jaded about the Bills likely OL investment. I still feel when it comes to investing in OL, they're like the 2021 Fed - they have a Low Interest Rate.

Doyle was injured at the end of September (Dolphins game). That means he likely had surgery mid-October. The league average time to return, I believe, is 12-13 months, so it's a pretty realistic expectation that he'll go through TC and into training camp on PUP. I could be wrong, but I think Big Men need more time to build their strength back up. They're basically bending their knees and trying to leverage the hell out of other big men with them every snap.

The Bills probably figure it's worth the signing bonuses to carry quality competition at OL into camp.