Beck Water

You disagree with the question about "Why would we have a cap penalty to move on from Klein?" You disagree with the question "What better options are there in FA at his price point?"? It's all very well to say in the abstract "I'd rather have a younger option with upside as a situational player and backup", but who exactly do you have in mind? 32 actually. 31 now, and his birthday's in July, but that's a nit. 'Zo Alexander was 33 when he signed in Buffalo in 2016, and played for 4 years, until he was 37. The last year, he was slowing down a lot, but he still contributed. Klein has never been a player who depended upon his speed and athleticism, but rather on his understanding of the game and his ability to diagnose the opposing defense quickly and read-and-react. The Bills are critically depending upon Poyer (same age as Klein, 32), Hyde (6 months older, will be 33 in Dec), and Von Miller (2 years older, 34). So frankly if being 32 makes a player "slower and more injury prone" and we should therefore not roster him, the Bills are in Deep Kim Chee with their starting safety duo and star DE all that age or older. I appreciate your kind words, but frankly, it's very easy to sit there and crap on a move but a lot harder to identify the better move the team should have made, and you appear to be following that principle at present. The fact is, this guy over the last 3 seasons and including a game last season, has played very capably as a backup LB for the Bills - not on a star level, but capably. He started for Edmunds ahead of Dodson, Bernard, Spector in Week 12 vs the Lions because the coaches perceived him as the best choice at the time. Now hopefully, that changes with another year and an off-season under Bernard and Spector's belts, and hopefully re-signing him won't keep the Bills from making a move in the draft. But I don't see how putting a capable vet who is knowledgeable in our defensive system (and capable of playing in it as recently as Week 12 last season) in the room with 2 second year LBs (and maybe a rookie) to watch film and diagnose defenses in any way makes the Bills a weaker team Having looked over the FA list (signed and unsigned), I don't see a clear choice that meets your criteria either. I would have liked to see the Bills pursue Lavonte David harder, but he's even older than Klein (33). I don't want to argue with you, but since you seem very strong in this view, I think it's only fair to ask you who you believe the Bills should have gone after instead.

Officially announced by Bills:

https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/ From the CBA, what they can and can not do during Phase I

It's also a point that when the Eagles had Wentz on a cheap rookie deal and won the Superbowl, they chose to pay a good amount of $$ to a backup QB - not top-10 starter-type money these days, but a decent chunk of their cap - which is of course why they won, and why they went to the divisional round of the playoffs the following year. But yeah, that's the main problem, he chose to pay a QB who basically became uncoachable and lost his drive to improve. We can only cross our fingers and hope that Josh doesn't go that route, because I fear we saw glimpses of it at the end of last season and it's happened to other potentially-great talented QB as well (Russ Willson, for example).

So that's what this guy is - a half-decent vet with the potential (if he returns to form) to be a decent vet. And yes, they do need several of those behind their stars.

I'm kind of curious how many women dating athletes you actually know? I'm sure athletes who go out clubbing meet a lot of women who are attracted to their money and fame. Not to mention, as discussed in this thread, the physical appearance some of them have (hubba, hubba). But there's also a reason a lot of these athletes who "could do better" stick with women who they met in HS or college, before they were famous - women who might not look as "hot" and you say "they could do better", but these women were there for them emotionally and mentally before there was a lot of money in the picture.

Actually, armies of all countries in the Napoleonic era had camp followers who were married to soldiers and "followed the drum", often with a couple of their kids. The army brass supported this because the women laundered, mended, and cooked for their men and his fellows, nursed them when they were ill or wounded, and worked as servants for the officers and their upper-class wives (many of whom were also "following the drum" in a more luxurious manner). On the other hand, when the army had to retreat, the women became a hindrance and their safety could become a distraction to their husbands. After Waterloo, the practice died out. Officially it was 6 women per 100 men, drawn by lot from those who could actually provide "marriage lines". For an army of 120,000 men, that means there would be 7,200 women. Unofficially, more would sneak along. Undoubtedly, some prostitution took place, but the point is, many of the women who moved with the army were wives and mothers accompanying their men. They struggled to accompany the army and endure incredible hardships for varied motives, but one, plain and simple, was to avoid starvation. Soldiers' wages were paid to the men, there were no bank transfers or arrangements for remote payment of all or part of the wage, so accompanying their husband for years of war might be the only way the wife would receive any money. I'm bringing this up because it highlights how assumptions and perceptions of women can diverge from historical reality, even when someone is trying to make a positive point.

If they want to stay a top passing team, someone to catch the other 1411 yds and 284 targets. Was this a trick question? Sherfield and Gesicki had >100 targets and 779 yds of these, so they need to replace that production somehow. In theory, as a ceiling Chosen Anderson is capable of that kind of production on his own (2017-2020) or, as a base, the production replacing one of the two. The last couple years and especially last season, his production went down and his nuisance factor went up, so, we'll see.

It's not that uncommon in these parts to have a prayer service organized for a church member with a serious medical condition - someone in a coma, or being treated for cancer, or otherwise seriously ill. It's usually just the family and "Church Family" and sometimes friends outside the church. A lot of Midwestern church denominations believe very strongly in the power of prayer for healing and it makes a lot of sense to pray for someone while they're still living, from that POV. And for a serious illness, to feel that a bit more focus and duration than the normal call for prayers during a regular service might be needed. I've never before heard of such a service publicized like this, or done for someone who is not a regular member of the church. Course there's a lot of stuff I've not heard of so. 🤷‍♂️

I'm not sure that's the game you're thinking of, since a glance at the box score shows Edmunds and Taron Johnson played 100% of the snaps that game. Klein split time with Milano (coming back from torn pec) I think we did a pretty innovative defensive gameplan against the Chiefs last season, using Milano as a spy to contain Mahomes. I vaguely recall I thought we had some wrinkles against Tennessee last season as well, though I can't remember what - 5 and 6 man fronts there? One thing to remember is that throughout the regular season, our regular D has been pretty good most of the time, and has gotten the job done. So there hasn't been the need to attack other teams with specific tailored plans. But, one thing I have noted is that where the plan we come in with hasn't worked, Frazier seemed slow to adjust. He actually said that in an interview at one point, something to the effect that he doesn't like to change the defensive game plan too quickly because he doesn't want the players to lose confidence in what they practiced all week. I'm not a football player but I thought it was a weird comment, if you're a player who is getting his ass kicked because the plan you practiced is getting shredded, wouldn't you have more confidence not less if your coaches asked you to try something different? Got a link for that?

Thank you! His draft choices of Edmunds and Allen notwithstanding, Beane, in particular, has a thing for undersized smart hard-working players "it's the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog in the fight" mindset.

I kind of would have liked for us to make a bigger push for Lavonte David. 1 year, $4.5M-ish is definitely something we could have afforded and that guy can Ball. But who knows what all went into David's decision to re-up with the Bucs....next season will be his 12 with that team. He's married, kid, family is from S. Florida. So which FA LB who are still out there would you prefer? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/inside-linebacker/all/ I can't claim intimate familiarity with every name on that list, but overall find it uninspiring. Zach Cunningham was benched in Houston, struggled with injuries and was outplayed by Dylan Cole (who just signed for $1.2M). Deion Jones was a very good LB in his prime, but people I know who watch the Browns say he was playing with 1 arm last season in Cleveland, really struggling. Myles Jack seems to be struggling with his knees. Kwon Alexander was a Beast in his day, but he's really struggled with injuries - last year with the Jets was the first time he's played a full season since 2016, and he only played about 50% of the snaps. Jarred Davis didn't play well enough as a 1st round pick to earn a 2nd contract from the Lions - I guess he struggled with injuries? and has been bouncing around different teams and spending time on practice squads. No thanks. Van Noy of course was a very good player once upon a time, I thought he was primarily an OLB most of his career and that he was kind of disappointing for the Chargers last season? Nick Kwiatkowski I thought was a good player with the Raiders a couple years back - he got beat out for starting ILB on the Bears, but the guy who beat him out was Roquan Smith. But he hasn't managed to crack the starting lineup since 2020. I don't know much about the 3 FA LB from LV - Corey LIttleton, Jayon Brown, and Micah Kiser. No scratch that, I know nothing. Ditto Neville Hewitt from Hou. Anyway, I thought it was a sort of uninspiring remaining list. Not sure I see anyone on there I'd be enthused about as an upgrade over what Klein has actually contributed as a Bill the last 3 seasons.

No argument that Klein was a very physical player in that game, but the post to which you were responding was asking about Klein playing MLB. Klein did not play MLB in that game.

Y'all could mosey over to this thread and re-hash the 2017 draft for the umpteenth time if you like that better

Why would we have a cap penalty to move on from Klein? He's likely to have been signed to a vet minimum contract - or has something come out that I missed? He had vet minimum from the Ravens and then from the Bills last year. What better options are there in FA at his price point? I don't think that signing Klein will preclude the Bills from drafting a player. The guy is gonna be 32 years old; he's not their future at LB, he's not a guy you want to count on to take 100% of the snaps almost every game like Edmunds did. He's likely to be a situational player and a backup. I disagree that he's "just not a good player". He's nowhere near the athleticism or the coverage skills of Milano or Edmunds, but he's a student of the game who makes up for his lack of elite physical tools with his knowledge of the game. And he can hit hard enough to knock a player back to Friday. I'm chill with wanting someone else, but if Klein signed for more than ~ vet minimum, I'll be surprised. So who else at that price point in FA?

Hi, "two years ago" can be ambiguous, but if you're talking about the 2021 Oct KC game which we won 38-20, Klein was playing for Milano, not for Edmunds - Tremaine played 100% of the snaps. It stuck in my mind because that was an interesting game for the Bills defensively. Klein played 63% of the snaps, but we actually played a fair amount of Dime with Siran Neal coming in. IIRC we were mixing up the blitzes and the defensive fronts pretty well in that game as well. Klein has played MLB for us in several games though - two later in the 2021 season (win vs Jets, very bad drubbing vs. Colts) and the game vs. Detroit last season. Results have been mixed, but I think if they had to rely on him for a stretch of games they would adjust, just as they adjusted in 2020 when Klein initially tried to play for Milano and it went...badly...but after the defensive brain trust got the flick that they couldn't just plug him in and adjusted the scheme, Klein won DPOW.

I sense a little sarcasm there (maybe I'm wrong). The comparison to Matt Barkley is probably unfair - Klein was named defensive player of the week as a backup in 2020, played capably in 4 games in 2021 for both LB positions, and played well against Detroit last season filling in for Edmunds. Klein also played a lot of ST snaps in the last 5 games and both playoff games. It's been a bit longer since Barkley contributed on the field to that extent. But there's an element of truth, too, of course. Absolutely being a smart and savvy player gets a guy extra seasons. Micah Hyde calls him "Coach Klein", when a defensive captain who is relied upon by the coaches pays that respect to a peer, it probably means something. There's a thread here somewhere about good players who aren't great athletes, and I actually thought of AJ Klein when I read that. It's like Jim Leonard, guy was never a great athlete by NFL standards but built a career by having a top level understanding of defense and being able to make the right call on what the opponent was gonna do.

I could be wrong, but I think their roster is at 68 without Klein. Missing the Jarvis signing maybe?

So who do you think they should bring in? A bit of back of the envelope roster and cap math: At this point, the Bills have 68 guys under contract. They have 6 draft picks: 74 guys They usually bring in 10-12 UDFA, 84-86 guys under contract So, they would in theory have roster spots for 4-6 guys BUT They will also need to look carefully at the roster For one thing, getting some guaranteed $$ is gonna be important to these guys, and we don't have enough cap space to hand those guaranteed $$ out too freely. Assuming Lawson and Jarvis signed for vet minimum or close to it, we have about $6M in cap available at the moment. The rookie class should cost about $2.3M ($4.6M total but bump 2 guys off the top 51), leaving about $3.8M So if we want some signings above vet minimum, we got to make some cap moves.

We've moved on. Who's hotter, Matt Milano or Dawson Knox? My answer is "Yes".

LOL a while back, apparently Eric Turner of Cover1 gave his wife a wine glass (or she got one) that said "Drink Until your Husband Looks Like Josh Allen". His wife apparently "fixed it" by crossing out "Josh Allen" and writing in "Matt Milano".

@muppy has dibbs

Agree. I'm on record upthread pointing out that a partial UCL tear in Game 8, that reportedly forced a different throwing motion, is probably sufficient explanation for a fall-off in play. And I agree with you that the Bengals game was a team-wide suckage, starting on both OL and DL. My intent was just to point out why it's an issue that fans do have concerns about, looking towards next season, if it's true.

I understand the skepticism, because of all the stories there have been about mega-churches misappropriating funds and pastors of mega-churches misbehaving (and misappropriating funds). We have our own family stuff against "prosperity gospel" here. But of all the things in the world to be critical of or concerned about, a church holding a prayer service lifting up someone who's injured or ill seems low on the list. It says they're sharing a message from the Pegulas, so there must be some kind of Pegula family approval.

Overall, good take and I mostly agree. Certainly agree the happy image people can present on social media doesn't necessarily represent what's going on behind the scenes. A seven year relationship that hasn't led to engagement/marriage could be proceeding on inertia/habit or could very well have some things to work through/reconsider. I will say where I think fans care is, we had a very disappointing end to a season where fans had what seemed like legit hopes for a Superbowl. One thing champion athletes seem to have in common is the ability to tune out distractions and focus almost obsessively on the game, the prep for the game, and all the other stuff that goes into showing up for a game in peak mental and physical condition ready for optimal play. So it would be a disappointment to some Bills fans if it's true, that Allen was not sufficiently focused on a championship to keep his personal life from detracting during the season. I think that would be why some fans would care. Others would care because he's kind of presented this squeaky-clean loves dogs and kids image and they want to see things as black/white and people as good/bad, but real people are usually more complicated. Hopefully if something happened it was a learning experience. Most of us have a few of those as the years go by.