Beck Water

I agree on all points. In this free agency era, and when the 5th round option has to be picked up (and is fully guaranteed) after the player's 3rd season - waiting 3 years for a guy to develop just before his last year under contract (for 2nd round on) or just before we have to pick up the fully guaranteed big bucks, is a luxury we really can't afford.

Beg pardon, but where are you hearing that? In the presser I heard, McDermott seemed very carefully ambiguous on both points

What Dion said (or did not say) is factual. The difference between false start and Offside is factual. The complete inappropriateness of your suggestion that a 2nd year player who was just a healthy scratch for disciplinary reasons, taking the mic to call out an 9 year vet for a couple of pre-snap penalties (out of 56 snaps) is really not reasonable matter for disagreement. Diagnosis complete: you're a troll. *plonk*

So I had to stop and think about this. Beane has a pattern of trying to compensate (or overcompensate) for drafting late in the 1st, by taking "high ceiling low floor" guys. They try to take guys who they assess as having the "want to" and the "work ethic" to take coaching and work in the off season to fill in the gaps in their game and build themselves up. Rousseau would be one example of this from Beane. He only had a single season of college football when he was drafted, very limited college football experience. Seems to me it took him about 3 seasons to really come on. I pegged Coleman as similar: only one season at Florida State, really not a lot of experience playing at a top college level. Coming out, concerns about his route-running skills, his release and his explosiveness. One of Beane's projects. So it wouldn't have surprised me for him to take about 3 seasons to really come on. But in order to do that, he has to have the "want to". He has to perceive a need to develop his skills and work hard. Plenty of immature wideouts have been incredible in the league *if they came in to the league with those skills*. Coleman came into the league as a "work in progress", one of Beane's draft pattern of high-ceiling, low floor shots on goal. I think he could become great because he has enough of the physical package, but he has to be clear-headed enough to see where he needs to add pieces and go out and work on adding those pieces (unlike sheer speed, release skills and explosiveness can be trained).

Ray Ray McCloud? As a disciplinary thing? I don't remember this. Looping back, I thought that too much was being made of Keon dancing on the sideline, but I finally listened to Ocho and Shannon Sharpe on the topic. Ocho pretty clearly didn't want to say anything but his reaction to Keon dancing was "something ain't right." Since that's two guys who've been there at a high level, I got to defer.

Then just like Coleman, you'll take the consequences. If you can't even acknowledge that you're way off in your interpretation given a transcript, you're either Coleman's mommy or a troll.

Before you say another word, you really need to learn the difference between Offside and false start, OK? Let me help you: Your perspective needs perspective. Coleman is a young player who has done NOTHING in the league as of yet. Dawkins is a 4x pro bowler who has been protecting Allen's blind side for 9 years, missing like 2 games in that time. He is justly regarded as a team leader. For a young player who has done NOTHING as yet in the league to "take the mic and rip HIM for making a mistake" when Dawkins was playing 56 snaps in the game while Coleman was benched for something 100% in his control, that happened before he even walked into the building, would be the tone-deafest of tone deaf things. Honestly, you joined in July of 2023. If you're related to Coleman, or a friend of Coleman, or even just a fan of Coleman, know that this finger-pointy attitude of yours is not only unbecoming, it's Part of His Problem. If you're just a troll, OK then Peace Out.

That wasn't the question asked. Dion wasn't asked if he made roster decisions. He didn't say anything about roster decisions. He was asked if he talked to Keon about his benching, and he answered. It would have been weird and an extreme "does not follow" for Dion to say what you suggest. I gave you a freakin' transcript and a link. It literally could not be made any easier for you to check yourself. For goodness sake, stop your crusading about Dion and watch the actual video/read the transcript before you post another word on this.

That is correct. He was dancing during pre-game warm-ups. But this is another instance where I think too much is being made of that by talking heads who need controversy to live. A bunch of players were dancing. Cam Lewis danced up to him and Keon mini-bro-hugged him like "have a good game". If Keon had been sitting morosely on the bench or standing shoulders down in front of the sideline heater, he'd be criticized for being disconnected.

Are you Keon's mommy or something? And again, did you actually watch the interview with Dion? Let me help you. He was asked. He responded "I already spoke to him. When I spoke to Keon before in this game, and I told him Bro Look. Don't even worry about it. Everybody goes through a different journey, right? Let's just say that this is the last time [ie last time he's late] and let's just move forward. And he said 'I'm with you". That's all and we need, like, nobody's perfect. In this league, we need guys to come on, and Keon knows right now he's in the hot seat and he needs to come on and show up for us. Pats on the back are over with, and it's time for him to grow up, and he knows it. And uh, as an older player on the team, we hold everybody accountable. We shoot straight. We don't sugar coat it. And the words were said to him and he took it well. And we'll see how it goes this week. Like I said in the beginning of the season, I'm in Keon's corner, man. This league is hard. Being on time is hard. Being great is hard. Pushing for greatness is hard. We got his back, but the time is now." Exactly what part of that constituted "throwing Keon under the bus" or should not have been said in front of the camera? You are making a big kerfluffle and going after "chubby guy" (by the way, OL are like bears, they're supposed to have excess body fat) for responding in what seems a pretty fair and measured way to a question he was asked. He did not say anything about it being Keon's "last chance", I have no idea how people got that. He also said some positive things about Keon. He said he's in Keon's corner. He said "make it the last time and let's just move forward." He said the team needs him to come on, and show up, which he wouldn't say if Keon were incapable of either. Frankly, I think you need to come on and grow up.

These are really interesting points. Beane does have a strong history of doubling down at positions of need - Rousseau/Basham; Elam/Benford; Sanders/Walker; Hairston/Strong; Sanders/Walker. He also has a history of drafting multiple players at positions of need in subsequent drafts (Epenesa followed by Rousseau/Basham; DeWayne Carter followed by Sanders/Walker). So why didn't he do similar for an obvious position of need at WR? It's possible they wanted Franklin, but didn't have a 3rd round grade on him and thought he might slip far enough into the 4th that they'd have a chance at him I personally think that Beane just under-values the WR position and over-prioritizes the D. He learned his trade largely in Carolina, and that seemed to have been a theme there for Newton - leading to Newton both rushing more than one would like to make things happen, and trying to extend plays at the risk of his body. Serious question: did you actually watch the interview with Dawkins? Because from what you're posting, it doesn't seem like you did.

Being as it's after the trade deadline, doesn't he have to clear waivers? Don't all players cut after the trade deadline need to clear waivers?

The guy seems to have the "Knox" problem, of being able at times to make the spectacular leaping grab, but dropping the ball that smacks him in the hands and he needs to catch in this league. That's something Knox was able to improve, going from a mid-50% catch % his first 2 seasons to >61% since (his 3rd season was 69%). He did it by following some eye training program that required a buttload of work and having ping-pong balls fired at him. Shakir also went from a 50% catch % his rookie season to >75% since. He did it in part by working with Eric Moulds who had him catch balls bare-handed, which requires more focus. So that can be improved. At times what I see is that the guy just doesn't hustle. He is in no hurry when he runs his routes, including ones where he appears to be the primary target (like that route over the middle on 2nd and 10 vs Miami that someone posted video of). So that's within his control - is he hustling as much as he can hustle, every route? He hasn't earned the right to "pace himself" on some routes where it's a run play or going to the opposite side of the field, and with Josh, you just can't run your route and stand there. So that can be improved. As far as how fast he is, that may be an "is what it is" thing, but athletes can train for burst and suddenness, which help them release cleanly and fake defenders out. It's re-training muscle memory, and it's a lot of work, is what I understand. So I'll give that a "maybe". I think his main problem may be between the ears. Be better, dude. Phillips spent his 3 year 2nd contract playing for the Vikes, including on a D that was #5 in the league in 2024. The team was 14-3 that year. They were 13-3 his first year with them. I said that in my first post. Yes, he plays for the Jets now - 4 years after the Bills let him walk. Sorry, you don't have the #5 defense with a team that goes 14-3 if your starting NT who plays 60% of the snaps "isn't worth a squat". That "you must watch a lot of CFL" crack is just weird. Where did that even come from, coupled with your incorrect gouge.

IMHO the best thing Keon could do would be to set up with Shakir and train with Eric Moulds this off season.

I know nothing factual here and have no inside information or insight. But part of the journey for young players is learning to be a professional. A friend's daughter who went from DI VB to pro VB in Europe described that journey herself. College is very very structured. In the Pros, you have to provide a lot of your own structure. The team tries to help players learn to be pros, but there's learning involved. I suspect that two things are at play: 1) Dunning-Kruger. It's not uncommon for a guy to be a team's first draft pick, sign a contract with lots of money, and think they've arrived. They overestimate their skills. They don't have to do something that makes them uncomfortable like travel to Cali and run routes/catch balls for Josh or go join Shakir working with Eric Mould in the off season. He can keep doing what he has been doing that made him a success (a high draft pick) like working with the guy he worked with pre-draft. It was pretty clear during training camp that Coleman had a problem. He was failing to catch balls that were 100% on target. That's usually a focus problem, an eye discipline problem. It took Knox a couple of years to acknowledge he needed to work on it and get to it. And Coleman's release moves had improved, but not as much as they needed to. Maybe doing the same thing and hoping for different results isn't The Way. Be that as it may, Coleman's game against the Ravens seemed to validate his off season work. 8 of 11 for 112 yds, 73% catch %. Whoo hoo. Only it wasn't sustainable. He hasn't broken 50 ypg since, and he's had 3 games with 50% or below catch %. Unacceptable. It wouldn't be unheard of for a young guy who came into the season thinking he's arrived, and he's done enough, and saw his opening game as validating that, to take a slide down into the Valley of Despair. Especially when he has lots of money and can show up in a bar or club and self-medicate to drown his sorrows and rake in the back pats and the ego food. Then what? Pro athletes necessarily have a paradoxical mindset. On the one hand, most of them have had to tune out a lot of negative opinions to get to where they are. Take Josh Allen - all the Division I programs that didn't scout him and wouldn't take a chance. All the draft pundits who said "If Josh Allen succeeds, the Bills will have outsmarted basically all regular humans and the entirety of math itself". Where would he be today if he listened to any of that, including, no doubt, some coaches along the way? So we're asking a young guy who had to have tuned out a lot of noise to get to where he is, to turn off his filter and be humble and let the coaches into his head and tell him what he needs to do (that was a problem for Josh initially, by the way. "No coach, Favre says Touchdowns First." Daboll screaming in his headset as a rookie and keeping up the screaming, when he didn't make the throw called for in the play). Add in that Josh traditionally has not been the guy to get in a fellow player's grill and chew him a new one for running the route wrong or failing to haul in a catchable ball - maybe if he did that to Keon he'd "get it". By the way, I haven't read anyone pining for Diggs, just commenting that his talent earned him a "pass" for lateness and etc where Coleman's play to date does not. But just in case: Diggs "went off" for 10 receptions and 146 yds against us. He had 100+ yd game against Carolina the previous week and just recently against the hapless Jests. The rest of the season? 14, 23, 28, 32, 38, 46, 57, 69 yds. I'm sure part of it is the coverage Diggs faces. But part of it may be the "want to" level in the player's mind.

LOL sure buddy. You wrote "There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good, outside of Edmunds" but What you really meant was "there hasn't been one player they drafted that is no longer on this team that is a real STUD, an impact player at his position." And it's my fault, I'm "severely reaching" for not understanding what you meant, because the words you used were not the words you meant. Gotcha. News flash: if the Bills didn't re-sign a stud impact player at his position, that would be a scouting and coaching failure. I listed a number of players no longer with the team who see the field regularly. Harrison Phillips - not only starting just about every game, but on team with a lot of wins. Wyatt Teller (strangely, a guy even you seem to recognize as "remotely any good" but who disproves your statement on his own). Cody Ford - you may not think he's good, but he's started a lot of games. Devin Singletary - again, he had his best year in 2023 on a pass-first Houston team that went 10-4 and went to the division round that season. But ya know, a lot of top coaches who won a lot seem to feel that ST matters. Guys like Belichick. Our own Marv Levy. But @jaybeezee knows better, ST doesn't count even when a guy is leading the league as a punt returner or is so good at ST that multiple teams sign him just for that skill. Second News Flash: Teams don't sign players they don't feel are "worth anything" or not "remotely any good", whether their primary role is ST or not. I don't think I need to reach here. Have a nice day, or have whatever sort of a day you consider most appropriate for you.

In the interview that's up on the Bills site, Dawkins did not say "it's his last chance". He said "let's just say that this is the last time, and move on" (in context pretty clear "last time" means "last time you're late to a meeting"

I'm not sure it's Brady's unimaginative game plan, and not the WR skills.

I know this is hard, but try to stay with me: 1) OP poster says "There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good, outside of Edmunds," (exact quote) 2) This contention could be disproved by listing one player other than Edmunds who is remotely any good 3) I listed 11 players who should be considered at least "any good" because they have continued to play in the NFL for years after the Bills released or traded them, despite the yearly influx of cheaper rookies. Some have started for years. 4) Therefore OP poster's contention is disproved. QED. It must be highly disconcerting to lose your ass by laughing. Perhaps you should hold onto it with both hands; only think how inconvenient to lose it! Without an ass, from what orifice would your poo emerge? It could be detrimental to your social life or enjoyment of meals. Punters are players. Every team has one because they fill a critical role. ST can turn a game and we all howl when it does. However, if you wish to exclude the punter and the primarily ST guys (even the one who led the league in punt return yardage) it still leaves sufficient players to disprove OP poster's contention (since one would suffice) We do understand that players who "bounce around the league" (get picked up by different teams) are in fact "any good", because otherwise the teams who sign them would take younger and cheaper guys hot out of college and undrafted. We understand that, right? I'd say I eagerly await the contortions you'll undergo to avoid acknowledging a point, but Truth: I'd be lying.

Actually, he couldn't. One of the noteworthy things about Allen during the pre-draft process and his first 2 years in the league was that he struggled worst to complete the passes behind the LOS or in the 0-5 yd range. When he changed up his mechanics in the 2020 off season he became able to hit those When he's been injured and has back-slid towards old mechanics he can't So if you're correct that his mechanics are off (and that would seem to be a matter of debate) then he would not, in fact, be able to throw from his a** and complete a 5 yd pass.

Valid points, although I would say that Tre White, Milano, and Edmunds were all pro-bowl type players in their prime, and of course Poyer and Hyde. I think it was Emmanuel Acho on some show talked about "Freakazoids". He talked about how, in order to win, every team has to have at least 3-4 "freakazoids", players who can single-handedly change the course of the game. On offense, we have Allen, we have Cook. We had Diggs, but no one who has stepped up and filled that role. On defense, it's been my belief that McDermott has always felt he doesn't need "freakazoids" to field a top defense. Instead he wants guys who will "buy in" and Do Their 1/11th. And when everyone knows their role and executes, he's almost right. But since the 2021 playoffs, I think Beane has believed that he definitely needs some freakazoids on the DL to put on a good pass rush. Beane tried to draft a guy he could develop into a competent pass rusher in Epenesa and Rousseau and Basham, and 2 out of 3 being good NFL players isn't a bad hit rate, but they're not Game Changers. Then he swung for the fences and tried to buy a Freakazoid in Von Miller and when that busted, the amount of dead money tied up in him has really tied Beane's hands.

To transplant a 25 or 26 yr old brain into his 22 1/2 yr old body. There just may be a reason why Sam Darnold started to really ball at age 26. Honestly, think of the 21-23 yr old young men you know. Some of them have it together. They pay attention, listen to what they're told, take feedback well, stay "humble and hungry". Others make you wonder how the human race survived because they seem to have NO sense, including no sense of perspective or self-preservation. Then you throw money into the mix. A young guy from a financially limited background, now he's got a multi-million dollar signing bonus in the bank and is pocketing a the average starting salary for a 2025 college graduate, $70k - EVERY WEEK. He walks into any bar with a hundred thou of bling around his neck. Heads turn. Ladies want to "talk" to him. This is the life!!! It may not be an accident that Coleman's crappiest games were in Atlanta and in Miami, both cities with good night life (caveat: I have NO info that Coleman is out there clubbing. It's just a guess.) That's basically why the "hit rate" in the first couple rounds of the draft is so low. Occasionally players can't adapt to the league physically, but more often it's a mental and emotional thing. It's hard to focus on what the coaches are telling you and be self-critical yet confident, when the message given by the money you suddenly have is "I'm in the Big Time, I've Arrived!". Teams try to do their homework, get a sense of who the player is about, talk to their coaches and trainers and teammates. But that doesn't always work. And sometimes people just change when they get the Do-Re-Mi.

Starting with 2018, and only counting players who are still active: Tremaine Edmunds LB of course. Even OP acknowledges him. Harrison Phillips DT. Started 17 games for 3 years and all 10 this year for Vikes, 59-74% of the snaps. Vikes #5 D last year, 14-3 and in 2022 13-4. Solid. Siran Neal CB. Played 17 games for MIA and 11 so far for SF as a STer. SF currently 7-4 Wyatt Teller G. Starting for Cleveland at G since 2019. Has been to 3 probowls and 2nd team AP twice. Might remotely be any good. Ray Ray McCloud WR. Has played on 5 different teams since leaving the Bills, including 12-4 Steelers, Conf Champ and SB with the 49ers. Largely PR/KR Led the league in PR in 2021. Also saw significant WR snaps with PIT in 2021 and ATL in 2024. Ya kind of think he might remotely be good if he lead the league and played in 2 conf. champs and a superbowl. 2019 Devin Singletary RB. Solid year for HOU in 2023 with more yards than he had in B'lo. Currently playing for the Giants and his YPC has tanked. Cody Ford G. Started every game at G for Cincy in 2023, all but 1 in 2024, all so far this season. He ain't an all pro, but they haven't found better. 2020 Isaiah Hodgins WR. For a player who was not "Remotely any good" there was a lot of heartburn here when we lost him to the Giants on waivers. After an OK year in 2023, he lost playing time in 2024 and gained it back this year. Played a lot and had a decent game last Sunday. We'll see how he does now Daboll's gone Dane Jackson. Back with the Bills now. Played ~40% of the snaps for CAR last year in 9 games and 3 starts so they might have thought he was remotely any good 2021 Matt Araiza. P. Punting and holding for the Chiefs. Lots of heart burnings here about that. Nick Broeker G, Playing for Houston, mostly ST. All 9 games this season Alex Austin CB. Has been in New England last 3 seasons, playing ST and CB. Has started 5 games at CB in the last 2 years. That's 11 players besides Edmunds who were drafted by the Bills, went elsewhere, and saw significant playing time. Several STers, but when a guy is leading the league as an STer he might be above "remotely any good". 6 have been starting. I know, @BuffaloBillyG, there I go with the facts again

Then why'd he "go off" in the Ravens game?

People forget that when it comes to football, NFL players are a lot smarter than many give them credit for. They don't have to be explicitly told they are running a clearing route, they understand the play design, they know what the reads are given what the defense shows. They know when it's a run play. They know when they aren't getting the ball. Remember Bishop (I think) saying he could read Worthy's body language and tell when it was gonna be a run play? But it doesn't help the offense disguise anything if all the players on the field don't at least give a plausible FAKE of effort. Poyer signed to the Bills practice squad on August 27. He walked into the Bills locker room before the season started. Does not track.