Beck Water

I don't disagree with you a bit. I would say his size isn't a problem, but his strength (indicated by light weight) is. I was hoping to see Bernard put on more muscle myself, taking a leaf from the Milano playbook. I agree, in the glimpses I've seen, he looks about the same. That was my biggest knock on Bernard in the 1 game we saw him play for Milano last season: he would get to the right place, tackle, and get dragged literally for yards. Both Dodson, Spector, and even Williams are heavier

Anyone heard of this device? AJ Klein has apparently been wearing one, and this season apparently Dean Marlowe has joined him: It sounds kinda weird to me, anyone here know anything about it?

From Astro's Day 5 write-up for what it's worth: "I’m sorry to write this, but Dorian Williams doesn’t look like he knows what he’s doing yet. Grooming him behind Milano is the definite way to go. This isn’t Tulane."

I think his weight is relevant, and I was hoping he'd pack on some muscle. But judging from the pics coming into OTAs and TC, not so much. What I think you're seeing as "instincts" are that he's still processing what he sees and deciding what he needs to do, which makes him seem slow. Some players speed up with time, and some don't.

Top 10 ILBs by AAV per Spotrac (note: I'm aware there are rookies on 1st contracts who are good and also that this combines 3-4 and 4-3 inside lb) [All data per NFL Draft And Combine Profiles] Roquan Smith 6'1 236 grade 7.0 "pro bowl talent" Shaquille Leonard 6'2" 234 grade grade 6.3 "will eventually be plus starter" Fred Warner 6'3" 236 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter" Tre Edmunds "wingspan of a pteradactyl" 6'5"253 grade 7.3 "perennial all-pro" CJ Mosely 6'2" 234 grade 7.0 "pro bowl talent" Deion Jones 6'1" 222 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter" De'Vondre Campbell 6'4" 232 grade 5.8 "average backup or special teamer" Demario Davis 6'2" 235 grade makes no sense, but profile written as "initial special teamer" - 6.1 maybe? Devin White 6'0" 237 grade 6.7 "year 1 starter" Ja'whaun Bently 6'2" 260 grade: 5.6 "bottom of roster or practice squad" That's a height average of 6'2" with a range from 6'0" to 6'6" Wt average 238 with a range from 222 to 260. Our guy Terrel: Terrel Bernard: 6'1" 224 grade 5.94 "average backup or special teamer Free bonus from this year's draft: Dorian Williams 6'1" 228 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter" The MLB competition: Tyrel Dodson 6'0" 237 grade 5.6 "candidate for bottom of roster or practice squad" Baylon Spector 6'0" 233 grade 5.83 "average backup or special teamer" So there you have it. I included the draft grades from NFL Draft and Combine Profiles to show that while 4 of the top-10 contracts graded high before the draft, a number of others were graded as backups or bottom of the roster/ST guys. It's not Bernard's size per se. When I saw him in a game last season, I thought he was playing very tentative, like he was still thinking out there. He'd make the right diagnosis, but get there late, and when he got there, he didn't THUMP, he would tackle and get dragged 3-5 yards.

Is that a confession?

Yes to all 3

I dunno about that. But one pattern that struck me, that I'm not sure how it will play out, is that Milano has clearly been making an effort not to get injured by being "superman" if he's a bit out of position to really close the deal. So his tackle would slow the guy down and then Edmunds would close the deal. I'm wondering how that will play this season. I would be less than enthusiastic to meet Billy Buffalo.

Ha. Ha. Ha. The man has 8 QB hits and 6 sacks. Oh and 18 TFL. I know you're being funny, but "C'mon Man". He's one of the best nickel corners in the league.

I can't disagree, obviously, but I do think context is a lot of how players react. You expect to see the QB and his red jersey in the backfield.

My point is just that the foolishness goes beyond Taron Johnson doing what football players are trained to do - they're trained not to hit the QB in practice, but when the QB takes on a downfield role, instinct can take over. It's (IMO, you can disagree) foolishness to put that play in there at this time.

Then on the first day of practice, don't put him out there on plays where (if Getzenberg is correct) accidental contact is a reasonable likelihood to occur.

So...anyone there? Was it "accidental contact" or Taron Johnson laying the lumber?

I'd be fine with them not practicing it, taking that page out of the playbook, and lighting it on fire. But if they're gonna practice it, then practice it.

And speaking of anxieties https://twitter.com/AjayCybulski/status/1686054719645466624?s=20 "I can live without the Philly Special. Allen had a slight limp, but looked to be in good spirits"

literally. Broken arm, 6 weeks - but can he keep up his strength in that arm while its healing?

Well, OK. But then when Josh runs or catches for-real and lets go for a drop or fumble, will you be in the crowd complaining about his fumbling tendencies? If he's gonna play it, he's gotta practice it

I don't think you see the Bengals practicing "Philly Special" on the first day of pads with Burrow

The good news is that unlike last training camp, Davis is experiencing this now. So hopefully he and his coaches/trainers can work to remedy.

You're right, of course. I'm just displaying my anxieties.

Ugh on this, is all I can say. C'mon Spencer, get those feet moving

They did not. And your theory is certainly as credible as any and more than some, but the bottom line is, we just don't know. Like I said, what I put out there was just my opinion on one possible motivation for stepping down.

I've done very detailed posts about this before. I'll try to recap below. And sorry, but I'm disinterested in PFF's offensive line rankings. People who actually play OL or have played OL in the NFL (like Eric Wood) roll their eyes at them. I wish I could find the interview Wood did about this - it's really a must-hear for anyone who is into this kind of analysis. I think a better way to look at it, is how the line enables the skill players to perform. My bottom line is this: the difference between spending adequate or good resources on OL, and insufficient effort - largely is a call made in hindsight depending upon whether or not those efforts actually succeed in producing a capable or good OL. If a player is performing at a high level, can we agree that it no longer matters where he was drafted? Example: today, Milano is not a measly 5th round draft expenditure; he's a top LB in the NFL. If we can't agree on that, there's nothing to talk about here, I'll just regretfully disagree with the logic and common sense of your analysis. But, if we can agree on that, then it follows that we can't just look at building an OL as an exercise in high draft picks and signing top FA. At times, Beane's efforts to field an OL have been wholly inadequate (2018). At other times, he has tried, and sometimes the results of his "try" have worked, but not been sustained - but he still tried, and with similar effort to expended elsewhere. Again, it's not just about high draft picks or big $$. Let's look at KC as a case in point. Pat Mahomes was handed the keys to a top-performing offense in 2018: #5 or 6 in the NFL in 2017 and very efficient. #9 for rush yards but 23 for rush attempts; #7 for passing yards but #17 for passing attempts. Their OL was: LT 4 yr Eric Fisher (1st round) LG 2nd yr Bryan Witzmann (UDFA) Center 4 yr Zach Fulton (6th round) RG 3rd yr Laurent Duvarnay-Tardif (6th round) RT 6th yr Mitchell Schwartz (2nd round) So here we have a good performing OL - 5th in the league for NY/A passing, 2nd in the league for rush Y/A, with a QB most recognize as above average (but not by much) in former #1 overall draft pick Alex Smith. What did they do next? They replaced the entire center of the line, but with whom? LG 4th year Cameron Erving (1st round Browns G/C/RT - but this guy was traded in training camp, he washed off his drafting team after 1 yr) C R Mitch Morse (2nd round) RG R Andrew Wylie (UDFA) I can hear it now - what an ABYSMAL expenditure of OL resources by GM Veach to put in front of their precious franchise 1st year starter - a guy who washed off his first team after a year for his struggling play and injury, a 2nd round rookie, and an UDFA. But the OL spearheaded the #1 offense and catapulted Mahomes to league MVP. It's an assessment of hindsight that the expenditure was adequate, it's not like Veach filled up the OL with 1st round picks and top FA. ---- Yes, Cincy drafted a C in the 1st in 2018. They moved him to LG the following year as part of the OL That Almost Wrecked Burrow, declined his 5th year option, and traded him to the NYG in his 4th year (2021) where he was credited with "a failure to protect the quarterback and establish any sort of efficient pass blocking" and replaced by former Bill and career journeyman Jon Feliciano in 2022. So I'm really not sure what your point is here - the Bengals "GM" gets credit for using a mid-1st round pick who doesn't work out, but Beane doen't get credit for signing a former 2nd round pick FA (Mitch Morse) who is one of the best players on our OL and has been a reliable C for us (knock wood) for 4 years now? Beane doesn't get credit for signing a journeyman in Jon Feliciano who plays well enough to replace Price at C for the playoff-team Giants, but the Bengals are somehow showing good effort by drafting the guy he replaced in their 1st, then trading him in his 4th year? Yes, Cincy drafted Jonah Williams in the 1st. He promptly missed all of his rookie season and half of his 2nd season. What would you say about that if it were the Beane and the Bills? "He drafted a player who can't stay healthy, he hasn't done enough", right? The Bengals did pick up his 5th year option, but he's playing RT not LT and they're rotating him at RT in training camp with....Cody Ford, drafted by the Bills in the 2nd round. C'mon Man. You can't just look at the draft pick, OK? That would almost be like saying the Bills built a great DL by drafting Aaron Maybin in the 1st in 2009 and Marcell Dareus in the 1st 2 years later. (Almost) You say they drafted a T in the 2nd in 2021, but Jackson Carman started 6 games at R. GUARD in 2021 and 0 games in 2022. Facts. The Bengals had the #8 Offense in the league last season. But it's not an effective run offense (despite how it looked against the Bills) - 29th in the league. Aren't you the one who pointed out that the Bills would be down around that territory if it weren't for Josh Allen, as a criticism? And it's very much built off the short passing game and YAC. 49% of Burrow's passing yards are YAC. And despite the focus on a quick-hit passing game, Burrows is still 6th in the league in sacks. It's a good offense, and the team has gone farther than we the last 2 years, but it's a very different offense that places different demands on the OL. And you know, I wouldn't exactly hold up the Bengals drafting as a great example of expending draft resources on OL to good effect or as a team that put great resources into building a stout OL in front of their precious franchise QB. Maybe that's just me. --------- OK so what has Beane done on OL? Well, in his own words for 2018, "I didn't do enough. We were limited by the cap, but I could have done more. I should have done more." So what did he do in 2019? He almost totally rebuilt the line between FA and draft. LT: Dion Dawkins (2nd round 2017). Only returning player. He's been overall Solid. (Picks made before the current regime count according to your examples) C : Mitch Morse was the big FA acquisition. He has also been Solid. RT: drafted Cody Ford in the 2nd round. He did not work out and is on his 3rd team, but apparently we're counting draft expenditures that didn't work out - and he's rotating at RT with the Bengals 1st round pick Jonah Williams, whom you name as an example of good high draft pick expenditure on OL LG: signed Quinton Spain, a 4 year starter for the Titans (who moved on to start 2 years for the Bengals - the team you extoll for their OL build?) RG: signed Jon Feliciano, correctly described as a 'journeyman' - but he was Bobby Johnson's "Guy". Every OL coach has a "Guy" they bring in to teach their techniques and be their wingman in the OL group when they're not around. It Is How It Is. And again - Feliciano isn't crap, he proved to be a capable backup C and started 15 games at C for the Giants last season. Depth/competition: Ty Nsekhe, a 6th year vet who had started 54 games for Washington The result was a much improved line that was able to give Allen some time to develop and #8 and rush yards. (Allen was the #3 rusher on the team) So what happened? For whatever reason, the Bills don't seem able to sustain good play from their acquisitions. Jon Feliciano tore his pec in 2020 and came to camp underweight and underperforming in 2021. I don't think those are things Beane could predict. Quinton Spain apparently had a beef when the team replaced him at LG with Cody Ford. Since Ford could barely lift his arm, and Spain moved on to start 2 years for the Bengals, he may have had a point. But game time roster and playing time decisions rest with the coaches, not Beane Daryl Williams was signed to replace Ford/Nsekhe at RT, and played very well at RT in 2020 - but then Something Happened and he looked like a mess in 2021. I'm not sure what's going on there. Maybe it was coaching? But it's always the intangible how a player will reeact once he "gets paid" as Spain and Williams did. I guess we'll see if Kromer is able to do a better job sustaining and building success on OL. Bottom line: while I would have liked Beane to do more (Boogie Basham instead of Creed Humphrey still chaps my grits), it's somewhat fictious to paint a picture where other teams have "done more" on OL because they used high draft picks (that actually didn't work out), while painting Beane has having done nothing or only scraps. Has he done enough this off season? Time Will Tell