Beck Water

Probably anyone can be "had" if you jack the price up high enough But Beane was handing out monopoly money this off season

Well you'll find the wet spot Oh...wait...was that my OUTER voice? Well, it's not *my* best counterpoint, but since it's obviously true, why should it upset a soul? Truth hurts.... I'm having trouble parsing "let alone start the same to ally lake thread"

I think this is a fair perspective. It also sounds as though Josh has started thinking about it. I actually agree that Josh doesn't come across well in this interview. Comes across as very golf-focused and kind of fratt-y with the getting super drunk and having personal oxygen bottles and pedialyte to recover. News flash, Josh, acetaldyhyde is toxic and getting rid of the headache does not get rid of all the persistent effects. Part of it is where the interviewers led him though. I thought the whole podcast didn't come across well. It was kind of a snooze-fest to me, actually, yattering on about golf courses and so forth. I don't think either Kyle or Jordan are particularly gifted interviewers. I felt Kyle and Jordan Palmer exploited their "insider status" as close friends of Josh Allen to bring out somewhat embarrassing anecdotes that they wouldn't be able to bring out about other QBs with whom they are NOT as "close friends" and don't see those private moments, and that objectively, really wasn't well done of them.

Thanks for doing this! Good thread start. My honest answers to these put me squarely in the "Hopeful" camp. I'm going to go with Kincaid. I think a solid rookie performance from our best candidate for filling that need over the middle would go a long way to improve the Bills offense. Hope we can all say "our Kinc is OK!" after this season. Torrance good choice though. I hope it's Connor McGovern. We really need to solidify that IOL I'm really in "hopeful" mode. I'm going to say "James Cook, and it's not close". The reason this is hopeful is that it would mean we have more of a running game, and we need less blocking from our backs. Cook is not "all that" in pass pro, whereas Harris can do it. I'm also skeptical on Harris injury history Trent Sherfield. I'm not sure I can call Davis a "dark horse" by my understanding of the term. He's going into the season as our #2 WR for the 2nd year and much is expected. Potential to overtake him: Ryan Van Demark. The OBD crew was surprised that the Bills cut Quessenberry loose to keep Van Demark, especially as he seems just progressing in his ability to play RT. If he comes on at RT, I would like to see him challenge Brown. That would be a real "Dark Horse", didn't see that coming, deal! Excellent choice. No argument on Floyd. I may go with Kingsley Jonathan though. Again, when a guy has Floyd's performance history, is he really a dark horse? May be a quibble. But Hard to argue with this. Ultimately, as VM goes, so may go the Bills season. I would say if Dawson doesn't get the numbers, it's likely to be because Spencer Brown sucks at RT and we're keeping him in to chip/release or just block. Which brings me to my choice for this: Spencer Brown.

If what she said is correct, they wanted 30 cc of blood, You can pull that out of a healthy guy with good veins in like, 5 minutes tops. It's not that far off what they draw when you visit the doc, he or she orders a bunch of routine tests, and the phlebotomist puts that big needle attached to the green plastic cylinder in your arm and proceeds to swap tubes in it 5-6 times.

Grown men don't start stuff by calling other grown men (who happen to be elite, top NFL players) lazy. Which was pathetic first?

I think that's a pretty fair take. Depending upon what you mean by wrap, that may actually be good tackling technique, but of course getting dragged downfield is not. When Poyer or Milano tackles, guys generally know they've been hit. I do feel that Edmunds got more aggressive tackling the last 2 years. IIRC, in 2020 he was playing almost all season with an AC Joint sprain (injured 1st or 2nd game), which made him tentative.

With scoring "drops", they're only supposed to score as drops 'a pass that a WR should catch with ordinary effort' ie, that hits the WR on the hands or within a rough rectangle from his upper thighs to just over his head and on either side such that he could still 2 hand it - which means they don't count a number of catches we fans look at and say "a top NFL WR needs to make that". Similar deal supposed to be the case with missed tackles - they aren't supposed to score as missed, a tackle where the LB has to make extraordinary effort. I think Milano has made an effort the last couple years to let some tackles go or shoe-string them from behind, where he would previously stick out one arm and risk injuring a shoulder or tearing a pec. And it still worked for the Bills last season because he'd slow the guy down and Edmunds or Poyer would seal it. But yeah, I'd like to see them too.

That's one POV. Another POV is that you're trading some *thump* and some TFL for the sure wrap-and-tackle For Edmunds, probably some truth to both.

OK, I can go with this. They've been to 3 and won 2 Superbowls since Allen was drafted. Gap, check. But this is where it starts to run off the rails to me. I believe I heard McAfee say that Allen is the active player with the most consecutive starts, 71. In the Miami game, where players were dropping with heat stroke and cramps, Allen played every snap. He finished the season 7th in passing yards and 34 in rush yards - not QB rush yards, everybody's rush yards He's noted for his ability to truck grown-ass NFL DBs, LBs, and defensive ends. Yet people believe that somehow, he does this while not working out and taking care of his physical fitness? And while not studying film? By the way, "ripped" is not a good standard for either strength or physical fitness. Where's some of our personal trainer guys here to help me out? "Ripped" has to do with training for muscle definition in every muscle group, and training for low body fat %. Those aren't necessarily indicative, or even compatible, with the kind of functional fitness a guy needs to play every offensive snap for 19 games and take hit after hit. Can Allen improve as a QB? Yes, he can, and I've got the receipts here of saying so and providing some specifics. But this "needs to improve physical fitness" "doesn't watch film" or "lazy" talk is just off the rails.

I'm not gonna get into defending Edmunds as a hitter. I'll just point out that some of the biggest hits (and by extension, biggest hitters) are actually poor tackling technique. Donte Whitner exemplified this Back in Da Day. He would go for the BOOM! but if the opponent managed to deflect, they were gone and Whitner was trying to pick himself up off the turf and recover to pursue. There's actually a stat kept around missed tackles. Like the drop stat, it is not an official NFL stat, has some subjectivity behind it, and the different statistical services who provide it may differ a bit. Anyway, Tremaine Edmunds was scored with one (1) missed tackle - 1% missed tackles - last season. Milano, who to (my perception anyway) is a much more aggressive hitter, had 13 missed tackles, 11.6%. I'm not trying to knock on Milano, just to point out that "aggressive hitting" is a mixed blessing from the point of view of a defense.

OK, so you don't respect Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, and before him Jim Kelly. Got It. And drinking to excess, even if done in a setting which doesn't involve driving or placing others at risk, is irresponsible. Got it. In fact, you probably don't respect the vast majority of sports stars in general and the Bills team in particular, because I think most of them tie on on at some interval. Calibration complete, Thanks.

Google Image search. 43 weeks ago https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckeu5teOufc/ Fitz sprang that pic on Allen at the end of an interview he did before one of the football games he covered.

Yeah there are similar stories about Mahomes in the Chiefs Superbowl parade. He was observed just HAMMERING beers and so drunk he almost fell off the bus. I mean, you just won the freakin' Superbowl, who wouldn't party? But when asked on twitter the next day if he had a hangover, Mahomes tweeted back "I went to Texas Tech...prepared me for these moments." I think Kermit slammed the brews a little harder than a novice (or someone way out of practice) would manage. I'm betting if he had "close friends" interviewing him or we were all up in his friends' Instas, we'd find some stuff.

Dude, number 1, how would Marino know what Josh did or didn't do off-season? Since we have just seen at least 3 examples of stuff that Josh said radically distorted by people around here, and since you just acknowledged your own "Bone to pick" of "disliking Josh as a person", skepticism seems warranted. I don't listen to Joe Marino regularly. I've heard he has some good stuff, but I'm not going to pour through podcast after podcast trying to verify what you say. I think it's "on you" to provide some evidence. As far as this being: What a bunch of unmitigated malarky. A bunch of respected posters here are rationally critical of Beane, drafting, cap management, Josh Allen, the offense, you name it - and guess what? Plenty of room and no one heats the tar and gets pitchforks ready. There may be disagreement, but it's pretty respectful. What's despicable, IMO, are people who take one thing that was said and totally distort or exaggerate it to feed their narrative. That's not being a fan. And of course, @oldmanfan nailed it: "You claim to not like someone personally that you’ve never met. That is what is bizarre." @Nelius spoke truth: "that's not exactly constructive criticism."

Agree with the first Para. Regarding the massive hangover story, yeah I didn't like it but 1) we have no idea how common it is for Josh 2) I don't know why you would be "convinced" Mahomes doesn't ever do that. First off, do you follow Mahomes content thoroughly and carefully? Second, it's not as though his "Quarterback Producer" mom and brother are abstainers. We know at least one Chiefs assistant coach was drinking hard at work, so it's not like the Chiefs have an abstinance culture. Maybe Mahomes parties but he just doesn't have "good friends" who tell stories about it on him on their podcast interview, so how would you know? The only QB I'm pretty confident never drank to excess was Mr Avocado Ice Cream and I don't eat Tomatoes, Tom Brady.

I think in his first years, where the Bills were being questioned on the decision to draft him, their PR folks encouraged some content to be dropped at workouts with Palmer, the Covid-year WR workouts in Florida, etc etc. It made both Josh and their decision to draft him look better, to hear that he was working hard off-season to improve. Now that Josh gets followed by cameras on vacation and recognized even in southern Cali, I think he actively discourages sharing of off-season content because he doesn't want cameras hiding in the bushes and fans sneaking into the stands.

This doesn't seem to be common knowledge to Palmer. All Palmer said is he doesn't start as early as he did, earlier in his career when he wasn't playing in January. For all you know he makes up for starting later with working more/longer later in the off season. If you have a link to the Joe Marino thing I'll give him a listen. But I don't have a problem with you or anyone else critiquing that Josh (as far as he discusses publicly) doesn't seem to be paying much attention to diet and gets drunk and hung over on at least some days off. Whether not doing those things would help Josh advance, I don't know - what diet does Mahomes or Burrows follow, do you know? Do they get drunk? Does Hurst? Lawrence? Tom Brady is famous for his disciplined approach to diet and lifestyle - what's Rodgers approach? What I think is disingenuous and/or naive is to think you really have a good enough idea off what the person Josh is like from those tidbits to pass judgement on him as a person and decide if he's someone you'd like or not.

Well, to be honest, after I saw some of the reactions around here, I regretted posting this at all. As I discussed with @Alphadawg7, my intent was to point out that some of the over-the-top stuff here about how Josh is now seismicly more body and health and nutrition conscious and focused solely on football is a bit much; how the POV presented in the "Beyond Blue and Red" and Pat McAfee pieces is pretty skewed. Two of Josh's best friends (Jordan Palmer and Kyle Allen) have him talking about golf and drinking and getting hung over (apparently often enough that he has a "day saver" to hand in the form of pedialyte and a personal oxygen tank). So the true picture is more nuanced, Josh is not all work and no play. But I personally don't find the idea that a wealthy young athlete plays golf and gets drunk to be like some amazing knock on him, and certainly not an indication of laziness. "Work hard, play hard" is a common mantra. What I am is I'm astounded at the depths and the distortions some people will take stuff to. How "I don't overindulge in film" becomes "said he isn't a huge film guy" or even "doesn't watch film". Then we get to the idea that Josh said he's just "country strong" and doesn't lift weights or work out off season, which is not what he's ever said that I've heard. Talking with Chris Simms, he discussed how he trains with QB strength guru Ryan Flaherty (whom he calls Flaher Bear). Flaherty is big on lower body training such as trap bar deadlifts for speed, and has other training recommendations such as no bench press, I think no military press, instead strengthen upper body with band exercises and plyometric pushup variants and so forth - the idea being to maintain flexibility and to strengthen the back and hips, single leg strength etc. I found this article about it. Ditto somehow because they didn't hear it on the 5 o'clock news (I guess) people started assuming Josh no longer works with Jordan Palmer, where Palmer sits down at OBD and talks to Brown and Tasker about working with Josh every off season, and not only that continuing to consult on mechanics during the season to keep things tuned up. It's just bizarro world to me, and bringing in this total goof-ass Jason Whitlock with his idea that Stef Diggs is pining for better strip clubs and Josh Allen is lazy, just adds to the bizarreness.

There's "more than enough information out there" for you to form an opinion what Josh Allen the person is really like? Either you're disingenuous or incredibly naive

On the one hand, Chris Jones is under contract this year, so honor the contract is a thing. On the other hand, IIRC Kelce signed a 4 year contract in 2020 and was given more money in 2022 then extended thru 2025. So it just may be a little hippo critical of him to poke into Jones business

This. You don't know what's going on? Seems simple to me. Chris Jones is 26 and in the last year of his contract. He wants to get paid. "You must know something that I don't know" "I don't know what's going on", seems pretty simple to me. Guy wants to be paid like Q or Jeffrey Simmons or at least Daron Payne. Guy doesn't want to go into the season knowing he is one slit-film-turf snag away from sitting on a sofa next season with nothing.

Chiefs #1 receiver is still on the team - poking publicly into his teammate's business. Other than that, the Chiefs are kind of where the Bills were last season, expecting Kadarius Toney and/or Skyy Moore to take a step, like the Bills were expecting Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie to take a step. They have Rashee Rice (drafted in the 2nd round, noted for inconsistent route running and physicality) instead of5th rounder Khalil Shakir, and Justin Watson as their Sherfield-ish type. Veach apparently feels that as long as Kelce is on the field and he throws some WR "lemons" in the hopper, the assistant coaches will train them up on how to run their routes and get to the right place and Mahomes will make delicious, flavorful iced lemonade with them. It worked last year, kinda, and MVS is still on the team. The interesting wrinkle is that the Chiefs long-term WR coach, Joe Blaymaier, took on the title/role "passing game coordinator" and they promoted one of their offensive assistants to WR coach. Time will tell if that has an impact. It kind of comes down to "do you think Skyy Moore or Kadarius Toney will step up and contribute at least as much as Juju Smith-Schuster?", which was 78 receptions, 933 yds last season.

I put it here, along with my best effort at an accurate transcript. What he actually said was he doesn't like to "overindulge in film" Fair admission that my characterizing this as "he doesn't like to get too into watching film on upcoming opponents" can be misinterpreted and apparently has been - though I still think there's a long walk between "doesn't like to get too into" and "doesn't watch" or "isn't a big film guy".