Beck Water

I have no problem with the Bills moving on from McKenzie. I have my receipts of what I've said on the subject (and in this thread). McKenzie got his chance to show he could be a full-time slot receiver, and he didn't come through. Next. I do have a problem with labeling everything you can a "boneheaded play" from your departed whipping boy, and not even remembering the genuine gaffes Hardy has been observed to make in his limited time with the Bills. It's illogical to label a guy who is really not seeing the field very much, and who has had mistakes when he does, "more reliable". You don't care about a drop, but maybe you should. Maybe the coaches do; maybe it reflects what he's doing in practice. Can Harty be a better player? Yes, he potentially does have a higher ceiling. Better routes, better ball tracking ability. He needs to prove he is able to keep that "best ability is availability" thing going on. But mostly for whatever reason, he hasn't earned enough playing time to show what he is or can be here, one way or another. So when you spend 3x as much money, on a guy who is on the field 60% less, and you only have $1.8M cap space, yeah, the best I can give it is "jury's still out".

So there you have it, folks.

For those of you scoring, compare and contrast Daboll post-game with Josh Allen vs post-game with Tyrod Taylor:

He was released, but it turned out to just be a roster manipulation move at roster cutdown, so that they could get a guy onto IR eligible to return. Resigned the next day, been returning punts and doing gadget plays for them. And the drop.....

Don't like that news about Dalton Kincaid, although if the Bills did Victory Monday and then take Tues off, it doesn't matter....he is hopefully close, since he was practicing last week. And for the Dorsey tar-and-pitchforks crowd: John Wawrow, Tim Graham, and at least one other reporter pushed McDermott pretty hard this point in various permutations. But I guess we ride-n-die with Dorsey, so to speak. On the other hand, there's this: I saw that there's already an "on to the Pats" topic, but a quick review showed it's ~4 pages of Giants post-game stuff so I thought it might be nice to start new.

I could be an outlier, but I think it may have had less to do with a grudge, and more to do with the way the Giants players played us. Tripping, throwing our RT down, stomping on players etc. The D is more Wink Martindale's territory but Daboll is the HC and "the buck stops here"

Yeah, I was paying attention because it interested me. During his 4 years in Buffalo, it was like Daboll went to Charm School. You could see it in his pressers. 2018 and early 2019, he was curt and veered close to throwing players under the bus (Beasley deflected catch that went for a pick-6: "maybe the throw is a little low, you still have to catch it"). By the time he left, he was relaxed, he acted as though he were personally concerned about each reporter's health, he was gracious, he seemed fun. I can't say it was McDermott, but someone during Daboll's time in Buffalo re-cast him. Dick Vermeil used to send his coaching assistants to Dale Carnegie, wouldn't surprise me if McDermott did something similar. Daboll came to Buffalo with a reputation for screaming and yelling at his players. In particular, he was reported to be ridiculously brutal to Colt McCoy: https://sports.yahoo.com/ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411.html Josh Allen tells a story his rookie year about going off-script and having Daboll just launch into him, screaming at him through the helmet radio, then calming down on the sideline, then thinking about it and coming back to scream at him some more. He was seen screaming at Josh in 2019 during the NE game, at the same time that there were complaints about delays getting plays called. After that, Daboll went up to the booth and he never game down. I agree with you, not just sports but any venue, screaming and yelling at someone in public does not help performance I think McDermott is probably very intense, and a player knows when he's "on the carpet" but he doesn't need to scream in public to convey that impression.

It looked as though Daboll was prepared to put a bit more time into it and McDermott brusqued off. I wonder if McDermott had an issue with some of the things that were going down on the field, maybe as a result of how the Giants players were being coached to play against us? Yes.

Wow, that's Brady-esque except that McDermott won the game. I think I looked in the dictionary and saw that exchange under the word "perfunctory"

FWIW, Knox has 25 targets and Kincaid 19. That's more than any receiver not named Diggs or Davis (and Knox is only 5 targets behind Davis) The problem with Knox is that he's back down at a 56% catch rate after improving to 69% and 74% in 2021 and 2022; he's also back up to a 12% drop % after bringing it down to 5-6% the last 2 years. 3 drops out of 25 targets is no bueno.

When Erik shows the EZ view there's a clear window and throwing lane to Shakir. The RPO at 10:00 where Josh pulls it and throws to Diggs when there's a light box and Cook could get some yards has me SMH

Some truth there. A number of people, however, have commented that he just doesn't look as fast as he did in 2021. It's actually kind of puzzling that the Bills are using Diggs on some of the quick "out" routes and such that I thought would be going to Harty. It makes me wonder what's going on in practice. I don't know how you'd tell if Harty is "more reliable" or not, when we're not seeing much of him. He does have a drop, and it was a bad one. As far as contract, we're gonna have to agree to disagree about what's "not much". When the team has like $1.8M in cap space and has injured players dropping like flies, an extra $3M cap space could come in mighty handy.

The post to which I'm responding, you made the statement that the Bills offense was one of the most productive, more productive actually, before Dorsey. Since you can't pull 2 full years of Dorsey yet, it seems reasonable to look at 2021 (Daboll's last year) and 2022 (Dorsey's first year) and compare - no? Or how else are you comparing, to be able to make that statement, since (again) you don't have 2 full seasons of Dorsey to compare? False. Josh has gotten hurt when he's running. He's also gotten hurt outside the pocket, but behind the LOS, trying to extend the play.

The problem I have with Harty is how much we're paying him compared to how much we're using him. $3.745M cap this year, $5.365 next year. He's on track for a 34 reception, 300 yd, 3 TD, 17 1D season playing 21% of the snaps. The oft-maligned McKenzie put up 42 receptions, 423 yds, 30 1D and 5 TD for just a fraction over vet minimum last season. Harty is being more efficient per-snap since McKenzie saw 54% of the offensive snaps to put up that production, but it's kind of strange to me that we're paying like 3x as much to a guy we use less than half as much.

Harty may be fine, Harty may not be fine, but we don't know because he's seeing a whopping 21% of the snaps thus far this season - 16% vs. the Giants.

Still listed on the Colts roster, so No.

This.

What's your point? Has someone caught McDermott raving about "embarassing" opposing QB or something? My point is when your team just hit .500, maybe that is not the time to go on that rant. Wait until you've won something.

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=McKeIs00&year_min=2023&player_id1=HarrDe07&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=HarrDe07 In theory, Harty should be able to run a fuller route tree and track the ball deep. In practice, that's not at all how he's being used Sometimes I feel like Beane stocks the offensive pantry with guys who should be able to do all these cool things and our offensive coaching just shrugs. And yet for the Colts, McKenzie is doing Just That Thing I'm afraid you may have a point here.

Just curious, by what criteria the offense was more productive "before Dorsey"? Per game stats, which is 2021 and which is 2022? PPG 28.4 28.4 YPG 397.6 381.9 TD 3.13 3.30 rush ypa 5.2 4.8 pass ypa 6.8 6.3

the OBD guys were watching film with Greg Cosell last year. Morris ran a route and Cosell commented something to the effect that was an unusually polished route for a TE, who is that guy. Just possibly, Morris should be getting a bit more airplay.

I pull screen shots myself, but one has to use them judiciously, as a WR may be uncovered before or after He really looks leashed up here

Look at Torrance. He's chugging in there to help his man Spencer Brown - then he looks to his L and see Josh Allen taking on a LB "oh ***** gotta protect the QB!" This was after Josh went to the blue tent with a shoulder injury right? He went to the blue tent with a shoulder injury and he's taking out a LB leading with his R shoulder? With Chris Simms, I can not disagree - but I also wonder why we don't see more Quintin Morris. He has improved his blocking skills, and Allen obviously trusts him --- wasn't he the one who got free in the EZ for a TD on a scramble drill at the end of the half vs. Miami? Hyde be over there going "don't throw it...don't throw it...don't throw it....NICE THROW!"

I think one needs to differentiate between pocket QB hits, and hits behind the LOS. This was not a pocket QB hit. Allen is frankly fairly lucky that throw wasn't picked. He heaved it into an area of the field with 2 defenders and 2 Bills and the player with by far the best chance was a Giant. The problem is, Josh Allen does NOT give himself up or throw the ball out of bounds on those behind the LOS, extend the play moments - and while they account for many of his "wow!" throws, they also account for a disproportionate number of strip sacks and interceptions.

I actually kind of liked him, but more and more he's converting me to your view. And that's my point. Did his defense play lights-out against the Bills, KC, and the Eagles? Yes. Yes, it did. But KC won, and the Eagles and Bills lost largely due to self-inflicted wounds - bonehead QB decisions and throws leading to picks. As @Bray Wyatt, that Hurts throw on 3rd down was a very bad decision.