Beck Water

TBH, if Kincaid put up Henry-like numbers I'd be OK with that. We could use the 30 1D and 8 TD he put up his rookie year.

If you're so tired of this team, could you freakin' go to sleep already?

Pats injury report. Per Sal Capaccio Jonathan Jones was later upgraded to "limited"

Was Ed just ruled out somewhere? This morning, I thought McDermott said he was hopeful he'd be practicing tomorrow.

No. Christian Benford is not on injury report; Dane Jackson was a full participant Both of them are ahead of Lewis and Elam on the injury report Ja'Marcus Ingram has been elevated from the practice squad for the last 2 games with Benford and then Jackson unable to go I imagine they will use his third elevation if Elam can't go. Lewis is an interesting question. I'm not sure how they'd handle it if he can't go; he's kind of their "DB Swiss Army Knife"\ They might have Damar Hamlin active as a ST'er and 4th safety.

To be clear: there are fans micro-analyzing every aspect of the franchise's functionality and decision making. I don't tend to think I'm one of them - at least, I'm not starting threads about who we should fire and opining that this or that player is a bust (that I know of) However, absolutely NO microanalysis or detailed scrutiny whatsoever is necessary for the macro-analysis of what the Bills fans suffered at the hands of the Patriots for Years, And Years. and Years. Then toss in "Just Give it To Them" You get "“Thief, thief, thief! Bill B! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!”

*sigh* this begs the question "what is a real difference maker"? It sounds like the kissing cousin to the question "what do you mean by #2 WR?" Previously we were at "if him doing better doesn't make our team results better, then I gotta think he's not making the team better". Well, he is, clearly, making the Bills team better and has made the Bills team better since he was drafted in the 4th round. But if we're now talking "real difference maker" as in "guy who can totally take over the game if you manage to shut down the #1", we're now into "I'll take teams with two number one receivers, Alex" and the answer "What are Miami, Cincy, Philly, and San Francisco?" If we want to say Gabe Davis isn't Jaylen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Deebo Samuel - well, No. No, on the evidence to date, he's not. Fair enough. He wasn't drafted in the 1st or 2nd round, either. The Bills are trying to get WR Champagne on a Beer Budget, is part of the issue. That, is a very good question.

Maybe the Ponies learned from their mis-handling of Luck, and want to try to do things the right way now.

He just sounds like such a process-oriented, McDermott type guy. https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/19/raiders-davante-adams-frustrated-by-role-despite-win-over-patriots- The "right way" apparently being, the "Feed Davante Adams" way. Seriously, this guy sounds as though he makes any petulance displayed by Stefon Diggs a mere petard after eating beans.

You did, and it was a valiant try. But for some of us who have BBFS from living through 15 straight losses from 2003 to 2010, then a lone win followed by 6 more straight losses, and topped off with 6 straight losses to start McDermott's career here, we do not forget. Stomp on them. Salt their fields. Steal their cattle and....well never mind that part's not PC.... Never forget. Never relax. Never take winning for granted.

Agreed. He's been getting a bit under 4 targets per game. Knox has been getting a bit over 4. I'd like to see one or two of Knox targets switch to Kincaid, and one or two from someone else - Diggs being force-fed on a couple of his 11 targets per game. Call it 6 maybe.

Well, first off, I don't understand the "barely win". What's a "barely win"? I know that "barely lose" doesn't count. Davis has helped us win playoff games - Indy in 2020, Miami in 2022, and while we lost 13 seconds in KC, that's really not on Davis, he did all he could possibly do. He's been a significant part of a good handful of other regular season wins even if they weren't OMG 6 receptions for 113! contributions. He did have a 6 reception for 93 yds game vs. Minn, and it wasn't his fault Josh threw 2 picks to Peterson, or started thinking about diving out of the EZ before he got both hands on the ball thus fumbled the snap, or that Cam Lewis didn't knock the ball away from Justin Jefferson on 4th and 18. So I don't think you can really make an argument for "him doing better doesn't make our team results better". I mean, seriously? It's a team game.

Shakir did lay down a 4.43 40 time, which is pretty much the same as Diggs 4.46. The difference for deep routes, IMHO, is that Shakir has those little 29" Tyrannasaurus Rex arms vs. Diggs 31" arms and 10" hands. The better to hold you off with, my dear. 2" makes a difference when you're going deep (That's What She Said). Beane's "sell" when we signed Harty was that he can track the ball on deep routes (McKenzie just couldn't track it very well) and has a complete route tree. He's in the same speed range as Shakir and Diggs, but has even shorter arms than Shakir. Maybe because he's only 5'6", the DB will struggle to reach down that far? I keep asking whether Harty is getting open on his 10-15 snaps per game? I hear he's our new "gadget guy" but I haven't seen him running those jet sweeps and reverses, and he looks slow when he's running routes - possibly because he's getting mugged by the DBs. Anyway, they have "enough speed to threaten the entire defense", what they don't have is the superior deceptive and smooth route running that Diggs has, and the upper body arm length and strength to hold off hand-fighting DBs. As far as size, keep in mind the Bills drafted Shorter in the 5th because of his 6'4" height and 33 3/4" arms (combined with a 35+" vertical and then doubled down by picking up Tyrell Shavers (another 6'4" guy) as an UDFA. The hope is that one of them develops into that "big guy" for us I do expect us to make 2 moves at WR next season - trying to sign a better FA, and trying to draft higher. I was kind of grumpy about the Bills drafting Dorian Williams in the 3rd instead of a WR - Michael Wilson was there? but as it's turned out, might be just as well.

Does anyone else here that old Santana song playing when they watch Dalton Kincaid run routes? He is sooooooo smooth. Yeah? Who do we dump?

One of the responses: 😂 I love it! Well played! Isabella with a little hip action there

This is a really good question. For some context, in 2019, the Bills #2 in yards and targets was Cole Beasley, with 106 targets for 778 yards 8.4 Y/R, 34 1D 2020, Beasley again, 107 targets for 967 yards 11.8 Y/R, 58 1D 2021, Beasley 112 receptions, 693 yds, but less Y/R 7.8, and fewer 1D 34 I take some flak for this, but I feel (and Chris Simms seems to agree) that what the Bills offense needs is a reliable outlet on short and intermediate routes, who is almost always open and can get those 1Ds and keep the chains moving. So on that question, is 600-800 yds a year enough? it depends on the yards. If it's 6-8 yds consistently on 2nd and 10 to put us in 3rd and short, or 5 yards on 3rd and 4 to get the 1D - it's probably enough. If we have that AND the 900-ish yards Davis is on pace to generate, that will probably be enough.

The best WR can run all the routes and are flexible in roles, at least to some extent. Jefferson had a monster season last year because the Vikes were using him all over the field. Diggs is getting a large target share this season in part because the Bills are using him all over the field - in the slot, on short option routes, deep, on screens (i would have to say perhaps, following his blockers is not Diggs best skill) etc. So when McDermott stands up and says in a presser, something to the effect that we have to know what players do best and put them in that position, on the one hand, he's right. If following blockers isn't Diggs thing but Sherfield can do it, maybe don't use Diggs on screens. Design for a player's strengths. On the other hand, he's being a scootch disingenuous. As a DC, McDermott knows well that if you've got a player who has a limited route vocabulary and is only likely to be targeted on, say, 2 of those routes, it's called "making my job easier". I wish all-22 was fixed in the US so I could go through it play by play or that I could get my hands on the Euro version (if anyone knows how, hit me), because when I try to go off my impression from memory of TV broadcasts, I can be flat out wrong. But my impression is that Dorsey does have (or at least started out the season) having Davis trying to run some shorter routes, curls and comebacks and slants and digs - and Davis just does not get open reliably on those. He lacks that sudden quickness and deception that Diggs has. And it's my impression that Allen and Davis have become a bit too predictable, there's too much film of certain route combinations and game situations where Allen will throw to Davis regardless - and guys in coverage know it and are prepared to jump those routes, resulting in picks or deflections. Anyway, there's some truth to saying that players have roles on teams, but there's also some truth that professional NFL receivers need to be able to do more than one or two things or they will get "solved". McKenzie's gadget reverses and jet sweeps became less effective as 2019 went on because DCs would see him and say "we know what's coming". So the Bills started using him on slants and shallow crossers and flats, and that helped make the gadget plays more effective again.

Well...No Although they're different. At least one is a football take, albeit a wrong-headed one to anyone who has watched both guys play The other just seems ugly - venomous and spiteful as well as not matching this season's performance so far for Gabe

No

As opposed to the games where Josh ignores "what the defense gives him" in favor of an overthrown moon shot (because he's extending the play and off platform) resulting in a 3 and out, or tries to force a ball into Stef or Davis resulting in a turnover? The thing is, the Bills have done those long drives on essentially half of our TDs to date. And they've cut drives short on those impatient "must get chunk plays!" interceptions or off-target deep shots, more often than not. Dink and dunk. Make them stop us, don't stop ourselves. I hope we go run heavy game plan, not because of some Sar Chasm but because we should take the load off Allen's shoulder and give it a chance to heal.

McDermott hopes Ed will practice tomorrow and play on Sunday Says similar about Josh: I don't remember what they said about Josh's non-throwing shoulder injury which hampered him for 5 games in 2020.

I'm having trouble parsing this sentence. Could you try to break it up into smaller pieces and say it differently?

This is the sort of idiotic take that makes me question why I hang here.

Josh Allen is on record saying "he needs a little contact" and "he likes to get hit sometimes. it makes him feel alive".