Beck Water

Yeah, what you've seen does happen, too, but more often than not the WR would be good. My point was, you've seen and I've seen the WR gesturing and getting feedback from the ref, not just in Chiefs games but in any game, and much more often than not it stands (though one zebra usually isn't going to fight his colleague zebra if it's called anyway) We both agree that's not what happened here, we don't see Toney looking to the ref and getting the "yep" and Toney was clearly and objectively off-sides, so Cry Me a River Paddy.

I probably should just shut up and let this go. There's indeed not a problem with telling "the other side of the story" or "an untold story" of what went on behind the scenes. It's what we'd like to see from journalists. The problem is an opinion piece where a claimed large number of anonymous sources vent their personal opinion and interpretation of what went on behind the scenes. That's....really not a piece of journalism. No editor of a reputable media organization would let that pass, even today.

Exactly..."Tune. Out. The Noise." You want your players reading this head-spinning opus and then talking about it, or you want their heads in the game plan and watching film? The latter.

It is normal and quite common that if the WR look to the ref for confirmation that they are lined up OK and the ref signals "you're good", it won't be called even if on film it can be seen they're a bit off. This isn't KC, this is every team. Every WR There was a controversial play a while back - I *think* it might have been the Eagles win over the Pats in 2017 ..... there was a play on which the Eagles WR was probably lined up slightly off-sides and Patriots fans were livid it hadn't been called and all over "poor us, uncalled penalty cost us the game", but it could clearly be seen that the Eagles WR had looked to the ref on his side and been given "you're good", so no penalty was called and "too bad, so sad" for the Pats. The key is, the WR has to ask, usually by looking at the ref and sometimes making a questioning hand gesture and the ref nods or thumbs-up them. There's no expectation at all that the ref will trot over and tap Mr. Mahomes on the shoulder and say "Excuse me Mr Mahomes Sir but one of your skill players is positioned inappropriately, Sir" I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a fact that WR do look to the refs and the refs will give them input if they look. I haven't heard it called a "warning" before

Very clearly put. And absolutely correct This was not a "walk off win" penalty.

It's dissing the Bills O IMO, like saying we can score in 13 seconds but a minute and 3 time outs for you - game is already over

I mean, the penalty occurred before the "great play". Are the refs supposed to say "oh, that was a great play, Imma pick up my laundry"?

I think it's possible Diggs ribs got hurt when Gardner did his WWF move on him. He's not on the injury report, but you can have a lot of bruising and soreness and not be on the injury report. If I'm right, he should probably be doing better next week vs the Cowboys and feeling OK for the closing stretch

Except his guy was Offside. Period. And no, the refs don't automagically warn you. If the WR looks at the ref and asks, the ref will usually indicate. But he has to look.

To the tune of "cheese tax": Da rules are da rules and da facts are da facts and when you yell at the zebras, you oughtta pay the tax

Yes. It was something very clear, and if the refs missed it when it was that clear and allowed a go-ahead TD to stand, it would certainly have been commented on.

You still feel that way now? I don't expect it to happen, but pretty much any other coach or key player would get fined for that stuff.

Holy Guacamole, I do hope the league takes some action. That wasn't in any way a questionable or ticky-tac call. Toney had his foot on the LOS. Maybe get mad at your own guy for making a flub, Paddy.

Oh, Sheesh. Can't we just enjoy a W?

The Chiefs have a very strong defense this year, especially against the pass. Historically against the Bills, they've schemed to take Diggs away and force Allen to be patient and take the underneath throw. I miss a lot watching broadcasts, but I would expect when people start analyzing film they'll find that the Chiefs D was like "OK, Allen has Diggs and no one, so we'll take away Diggs". Allen was certainly trying to hit him. Oooooh. I love it when you talk dirty like that!

Oh, Come Now. Are you honestly going to try to make a case that everything in Dunne's article is "truth"? I'm sure he didn't make it up - he had sources - but a lot of what he recounts his sources saying is not factual, it's their interpretation or opinion about things with Dunne's own interpretation and slant added in. Yes, he's a well respected journalist with real credentials and impeccable training. But, as reporter, friend, and former Dunne mentor Chuck Pollack points out, Dunne is now a private enterpreneur using direct sale of subscriptions to his content to make a living. There are plusses and minuses to that. If anyone here hates Dunne, or even is criticizing his writing, it's not because he "tells the truth". It's because he crafted a long form piece in which, to some, opinion and interpretation advanced to the level of character attack. Some of the anecdotes (which I'm sure occurredl) are NOT a good look for McDermott. But to give 25 (or however many) sources a platform to vent what seems at times to be personal animosity towards a former employer - to some of us, that's not a good look either. Same principle with Sullivan - it wasn't that he "told the truth", it was that he beat the drum of an unrelenting negative slant unremittingly, culminating in a social media complaint about the press box food (with photo of one area) - which was countered by other reporters posting photos of the full spread. That was a pretty clear metaphor for what Sullivan's writing had become: a close-in critique of negative aspects, ignoring the context of the full picture.

Reid almost certainly hasn't read the article(s) and has no idea what he would need to defend McDermott from or how. All of these coaches are strongly focused and have tunnel vision during the season. This is where IMHO Dunne's articles stood in the light of good journalistic questions that need to be asked. The real issue for Pegula and the Bills isn't whether or not McDermott has said something stupid or used stupid examples in the last 4 years or whether, as Wawrow said "people have issues with former boss; story at 11". It's whether he puts his players in the best position to succeed; whether he's made (and is making) poor game day decisions and defensive playcalls that have hindered the Bills or even cost the Bills games. Where there are problems, has he identified them correctly and identified good solutions? That kind of thing. Whether he sleeps in the facility or doesn't, sits around chewing the fat and smoking cigars with Josh Allen like Daboll did, or does/doesn't want his assistants getting too friendly with the players they coach are largely besides these points.

They're human beings getting dings and bruises during a long season. The Titans were "revved up" for us on Tues night football because they were getting slammed in the National Media. The Bengals were "revved up" for us because supposedly the Bills were 'dissing' them by selling tickets for the next game (never mind that they were doing that too). In theory, the Bills players could be "press is dunking on us, Let's Show Those SOBs". But I don't think it would be specifically support for their coach, more like "Buffalo vs. Everybody" Circle-the-Wagons attitude.

Hey, @EmotionallyUnstable , are the bolded our rooting interests?

I don't know if Dunne has a 'pre-existing beef' as such, but fired Bills Director of Player Personnel Jim Monos does a regular report for him so they're apparently tight, and he's said to be close to Bills CEO Russ Brandon (who resigned or was forced to resign after an internal investigation) and fired Bills General Manager Doug Whaley. None of these guys have found NFL work after the Bills moved on from them. He also hosted a podcast with former Bills WR Isaiah McKenzie who was "beefy" - he was benched by McDermott, felt he wasn't used or targeted appropriately last season, and finally was cut after the signing of Deonte Harty. One line of thought is if your friends and associates have beef, you're more likely to have beef. The Bills didn't credential Dunne as media, but technically he isn't media - he's an independent 'content creator'. They don't credential the Cover1 guys and other independent 'content creators' either. Some may think that's unfair, but there are some differences - reporters who work for media like TBN, AP, etc are supposed to have journalistic standards where they have multiple sources and verify, and editorial ovesight as a 'check and balance'. I think this standard is actually a bit 'loosy goosy' with some media who are credentialed, but that's the theory. Anyway, the point is, Dunne isn't being singled out, this is apparently a consistent Bills policy.

This seems to be a strange take. Daboll left to take a HC job, a promotion. This isn't the usual meaning of "went through".

Throat cancer. It literally brings a tear to my eye to see him talking so clearly (he had part of his jaw removed and had to re-learn how to talk)

Bingo. We concur. I'll even go further: the piece might have been more effective at elevating that question for discussion, without all the ancillary stories that, given the wording and slant, seem to reach the point of character attack. The real question the Bills have to address, is whether McDermott's in-game decision making can improve, and whether he can develop himself as a team coach, not one who focuses on defense to the detriment of offense sometimes. I just posted a link from a Jim Kelly interview over in the KC game week thread. I thought it was interesting that Kelly specifically mentioned in-game decisions as needing to be better. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but in mine, I think the degree to which it was slanted and seemed personal distracted from that very germaine and topical and important question.