Beck Water

WTF? Let's be clear here. There is no "we". You're a Chiefs fan visiting here. No, we did not at all see Shakir's ceiling in 2023. We saw him being used in a somewhat different way in the first part of 2023 which changed after Brady took over. In 2024 he had more 1D, more TD, and more Y/G (while having less Y/R because of the Bills offensive changes under Brady). Shakir adapted to the changes and got 72% of his yards after catch in 2024.

It's a guess, but let's just say there might be a reason why Richie Incognito wanted a funeral home to cut off his deceased father's head in 2018? Who knows, but a lot of bullies learn to bully at home....they get verbally and sometimes physically abused by parents in the guise of "tough love" and "toughening them up", and they take those behavior patterns with them to school and to sports and activities. And sure, drug use (including steroids) and mental problems played their role. As far as good on the field, actually.... Incognito was a mixed bag. Yes, he could be physical and dominating and athletic, all you want in an OL. But he had a reputation for stupid penalties...I think his final year in St Louis he had 3 personal foul or UR penalties....IN ONE GAME! leading to the head coach screaming on the sideline "WHAT THE ***** IS WRONG WITH THAT *****?"

Reid has 5 kids (4 living). His 2 middle kids, daughters Crosby and Drew, seem to live out of the limelight. How do you know they are train wrecks? His youngest, son Spencer, is now a S&C coach for the Chiefs but he seems a bit legit having worked for 4 college programs before being hired. Do you know any evil of him? Garrett was a train wreck and Britt may still be a train wreck unless permanently damaging a young girl changed him

I had the same question. @Buffalo716 any tea?

I understand your point that players take time to adjust to the NFL and to develop, and that fans get impatient with the need for development. But it seems to me there's a valid counter-point that other teams get immediate strong contributions, especially from their 1st round and Day 2 picks - and that one difference between the Championship teams and the Bills, may be the lack of such immediate contributions.

I don't care if it's limited to Richie Incognito. If it happens, it's wrong. "Whataboutism" is no defense. (And by the way, "testimony" is a specific word with connotations of a formal, even a sworn, statement - which appearing on Sal's podcast is not) Does it really need to be said? If Bills DB coach John Butler was "literally destroying" his assistant, not with criticism of his OJP or banter but with racial or sexual slurs, then John Butler is a jerk and maybe there's a reason he and the Bills "mutually decided to part ways" and why he was out of the NFL last year.

And that you have Gold Plated medical insurance

OK, so we agree Cook is not, in fact, the best weapon on offense. He's an excellent weapon, and we agree that I want Buffalo to keep all its offensive weapons, and keep them happy if we can. That definitely means negotiating with Cook and trying to get him an extension while he's still under contract. It doesn't mean pay him $15M The Bills tried to buy a Superbowl when they signed Von Miller. We know how that story ended - not well for the Bills.

Don't forget the stuff about "running train" on Martin's sister.

Actually, Martin got the investigation started by leaving the team. Martin sat down at the OL table for lunch, and the entire OL got up and left the table, leaving him alone. Martin responded by throwing down his tray and leaving the building and staying away. Since Martin was a high 2nd round pick of whom much was expected, that, not unnaturally, had Dolphins brass, Martin's large and successful family, and everyone else wondering "just what's up with that?" And we were off.

Ever hear the phrase "Go along to Get Along"? There's a hierarchy in every workplace. There's also a workplace culture. Take a culture where toxic, verbally and sometimes physically abusive behavior is openly tolerated or even encouraged by management (which, the Wells report concluded, was the case with the Dolphins). Now take someone like an assistant trainer who is near the bottom of the hierarchy, trying to make a living and easily replaced. Of course they're going to either stone-face or laugh off treatment by the Big Shots, the star players. Doesn't mean they don't experience it as humiliating and inappropriate Does mean that if they "read the room" and see management as condoning or even encouraging that kind of behavior, they're not gonna bother reporting it.

One little caveat: I don't agree that being dangerous, per se, means you can not be good. But that really depends upon one's definition of dangerous. I think you are using "dangerous" as a synonym for "violent and unpredictable", and I would agree that "violent and unpredictable" is implausible to coexist with Good. The thing is, the Wells report made clear that this kind of language (and perhaps intimidating physical behavior) was proven to be used against a lowly and physically smaller and weaker assistant trainer (who was working for peanuts relative to the players) and against an unnamed, but possibly way lower on the totem pole offensive lineman (possibly a practice squad guy) who may have an opinion on that. That's CLEARLY bullying behavior. And that's just the behavior the Wells report was able to document. And it wasn't new. Incognito had a history of this kind of stuff stretching back into college at least: Again, Wood can stick up for his poor, wronged "brother" with his "ruined" reputation if he wants to, but the fact is that Incognito had a pattern of bullying behavior and out-of-control behavior that stretched way back prior to the Dolphins, and that was protected by the "culture (that) you don't run and cry to the coaches". Mango is 100% spot on that Incognito ruined Incognito's reputation, and that he stinks as a human being. It's a fact that Incognito had career earnings of $15M prior to being suspended by the Dolphins.  He finished his career with $32M of career earnings - so he MORE THAN DOUBLED his career earnings after having his "reputation ruined". Boo Hoo. Some ruin.

Yes. IMHO, the most damning stuff in the Wells report didn't have to do with how Incognito interacted with Martin or other players. It had to do with how Incognito and his teammates, huge powerful athletes, treated the working guys in the building. From a summary: "We find that the Assistant Trainer repeatedly was targeted with racial slurs and other racially derogatory language." Here you have supposedly grown-ass men, bullying an assistant trainer who is paid peanuts compared to them and is physically smaller and weaker. Martin and his mental problems aside, Incognito was scum. See above. The Incognito that Wood knew had his fangs pulled. He wasn't given a leadership role and allowed to treat people like that in Buffalo. But Wood also pretty strongly implied that the reason Incognito was asked to take a paycut (that touched off his whole bizarroworld downhill slide) was that he wasn't playing up to standard his last year in Buffalo. I believe Incognito even later admitted that he was back to substance abuse and showing up at work drunk/high (Edit: I mean his last year with the Bills) Wood can excuse that out of "brotherly love" if he wants. It's not "good person" behavior to me.

I dunno what part the agent plays in this. I think it's pretty clear players do things all the time without their agents' direction, and sometimes that their agents do damage control for. I wasn't paying attention during Dalvin Cook's contract negotiations 'cuz, not my guy, not my team, but both Cooks do have the same agency. At the time Cook said about the toe injury, "It's getting better. Just improving every day," Cook said after Saturday's practice. "Trying to get it back stronger, and go out there and help the team, like I said, I'm just taking it day by day, treatment, see what, how I feel on Monday." That sounds entirely like a guy who plans to play but knows he might not be able to. He and his agent both know it's a national game, all players like to excel on a national stage. Puffing that into "I could tell what he was all about" as a player or as a negotiator seems like a stretch. The bottom line is, the Bills don't have to negotiate with Cook at all. He's under contract to them for another year. He plays for us or for no one. Um, no. No, he's not the best weapon on offense. That was, is, and remains, Allen. Who by the way, is grossly under-paid by today's market. I want to see Allen keep his playmakers and add to them, sure. But I want to see a better defense on the opposite side of the field, as well. It's not about "protecting billionaires money", it's about a finite salary cap, and about how once you pay one guy substantially over market value, the rest of the team watches and says "where's mine?"

I would actually assume they have not had their contract talk because Beane has historically made it clear that he handles FA, then the draft, then extensions. The agent may have called and said "my guy wants an extension this off season, let's talk" and Beane said "absolutely, I'm open to talking". I'm with you on the snap %. I posted about that previously, where I don't get what arguments Cook and his agents have for making him the 2nd highest paid RB in the league in AAV. The top RBs in the league last year carry a heavier workload (Henry, Barkley, Robinson, Taylor, Jacobs) - all over 300 snaps to Cook's 200 snaps. , He doesn't have the pass-catching chops of McCaffrey or Kamara - in fact, he saw his pass targets drop considerably in part because he had hella drops in 2023. He's a fine player. But Barkley had 14 games where he gained more than 100 yds last season, including 2 in the playoffs. He had 2 200 yd games, including one in the playoffs! Henry had 10 games where he gained more than 100 yards, including 186 yds in the playoffs. The 49ers aren't getting their ROI overall from McCaffrey, but when he's healthy, like in 2023 he gained >2000 yds from scrimmage. Cook hasn't shown he can carry that kind of workload and give that kind of gameday impact to a team. He had 5 games >100 yds and 2 games >80 and no games with more than 30 yds receiving. He's a fine back and he had a monster game in the playoffs vs. Denver. Give him his propers. But don't give him $15M a year.

Yes, that's what you typed previously. I assume you're talking about the Week 6 Jets game, where Cook DNP Weds and Thurs and was limited on Fri with the dreaded "turf toe" injury. I have no idea how that lets you know "what he was all about", do you care to explain?

?? huh ??

I've certainly been vocal about our D not being good enough this season. But it's not uncommon for the margin of error to be small when you're playing the best teams, because...they're the best teams.

@Alphadawg7, regarding the refs, I'm just gonna quote James Cook on that" Yes, the refs flipped the game with those calls. It's gonna happen though. If the Bills want to win, they have to leave no doubt. I don't think you can say Josh shifted the protection to the wrong side. There were looks on film and a play earlier in the game where the KC D showed that R side overlook and then blitzed off the left. So the Bills saw the same look and shifted the protection the same way. It was a great play design by Spags. Whether there were some subtle "tells" that Tom Brady would have picked up, telling him this play was different, can't tell you, but the point is, Josh didn't shift the protections to slide left for no good reasons. But again - the defense gets paid too, and in the biggest games, you're typically facing the best. So broken plays will happen, and if the margin of error is small, wins depend on having that clutch guy.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't think the Chiefs would have worried a bit about Duke Williams, and I don't think he'd have managed to haul in the TD pass that made it 34-0. I don't think the Chiefs would have worried a bit about some JAG substitute for AJ Brown, either. I used the term "receivers" not "wide receivers" advisedly. I'm referring to Dalton Kincaid and Keon Coleman. Don't get me wrong, I haven't given up - they've both shown flashes - but they have GOT to take a big step next year for us to have what we need, both of them.

That's very true, but Mostert is 32. His breakout year with SFO was his 5th year in the league. The Bills could likely pay Cook on a 4 year contract and he would still be within his shelf life at the end. That said, as I posted elsewhere - Cook didn't carry the load in rush attempts that the rush leaders in the NFL did - Henry, Barkley, Robinson, Taylor, Gibbs, Jacobs, Kyren Williams. Of those 7, only Gibbs had fewer than 300 rush attempts while Cook had 207. He was 5th in Y/A, but he hasn't shown he can carry the load that those other top backs carry. And he doesn't make up for it in contributions to the pass game - the Bills cut his workload in the passing game in favor of Ray Davis and Ty Johnson. So it's very unclear to me what exactly are Cook's agents' arguments to pay him more than any RB but Christian McCaffery, who is a one-man wrecking crew when he's healthy.

A counterpoint is that while Cook's contributions have been solid for an RB as a receiver (84% catch rate, 8 Y/R), his use in the passing game really dropped off last year in favor of Ty Johnson and Ray Davis. He had 54 targets last season, 38 this past season - with 44 targets going to Ty Johnson and Ray Davis. This probably reflects Cook having a drop % of 9.4 his rookie year and 11.1% this past year. The Bills seemed like they took some of the routes they were using Cook on in 2022 and 2023 out of his playbook and gave them to Ty Johnson and Ray Davis. Cook is not built to be the physical beast that Henry and Barkley are. He isn't carrying the rush attempt load that they, or Josh Jacobs or Jonathan Taylor are. In fact, he literally has only 2/3 of the rush attempts those guys do - they're all >300 rush attempts to Cook's 207. And it's not clear he'd physically hold up to that kind of workload. So he's not carrying the rush attempt workload of the top backs, he's not adding in the passing contribution that other RBs make. I think the Bills are open to paying him, but I'm honestly puzzled in his "$15M a year" unless it's all bluster.

The quiet part of this is: WR in general is a position that tends to Diva a bit. Not sure why, maybe the guys on here who have played at least in college at WR or CB can give some insight. Maybe because the WR and CB are often alone 1 on 1 with all eyes on them, so they're positions where guys have to have a lot of self-confidence and a short memory for bad plays? Maybe because they're getting punished hard on almost every play hitting or being hit? So when you pay a WR top $$, his inner Diva seems to blossom, and he seems to feel he's "The Man", the Star, and he should get the ball whenever there's a possibility he's open. I don't think the Bills should go out and pay a guy $30M. But I do think the Bills need better WR than they had this year.

So just for giggles I decided to look at the Iggles and the Chiffs. Iggles 1069 run + pass plays. 621 rush plays or 58% rush plays. Of their 42% or 448 pass plays, 261 targeted WR thus 58% of their pass plays targeted WR (so less overall plays targeting WR than the Bills 295, but a higher % since they had fewer pass plays) Overall, 24% of their offensive plays targeted a WR Chiffs 1050 run plus pass plays. 450 rush plays or 43% rush plays. Of their 57% or 600 pass plays, 283 targeted WR thus 47% of their pass plays targeted WR. Overall, 27% of their offensive plays targeted a WR Yes.

I'm late to the show here so need to catch up on what point is trying to be supported with the various stats? Correct on the WR target pass plays. Bills had 520 passing attempts, so that would be 295/520 or 57% of their pass plays targeting a WR The Bills are listed in pro.football.reference as having 1025 plays: the sum of their pass attempts and rush attempts is 1011. That makes them 49% rush, 51% pass. Overall 29% of the Bills offensive plays targeted a WR. Close - see above, 29%. I expect the Bills might have liked to have more pass plays targeting a WR, but their WR weren't up to the job, which is why we saw Ty Johnson getting critical targets in critical games.