Beck Water

I'm great with Josh as a hire - from the point of view of a Bills fan!!!!! The situation you allude to - taking a young QB who has had success with a WCO offense and moving them to a EP offense - is exactly the situation that led to very poor results with Sam Bradford in St Louis. Bradford looked decent under Pat Shurmur, who has a track record of bringing out the best in QB - and then after McDaniels left, looking decent again under Brian Shottenheimer. With McDaniels, he looked like he flat out couldn't play football. It wasn't like Bradford was a tempermental diva either. His press conferences were painful to watch that year, he was so sincerely earnest about how he believes in their offensive system. He pretty clearly was trying his best. Keep in mind that it's not just the QB who has to adjust, it's the entire offense that needs to learn a new terminology and new ways of thinking about plays. The whole offense has to learn it, and buy into it. That may have played a reasonably significant role in what sunk the Rams offense that season. Excuse me, who were the two that were top 10 offenses McDaniels was coordinator for after Tom Brady left? I do apologize, but I must have missed the second one whilst correcting your misunderstanding of Alex Van Pelt's previous experience as offensive coordinator. The Patriots had 1 top 10 offensive year after Brady left - 2021 with Mac Jones. Who and where was the second? You're missing the point about Sam Bradford. I'm not playing a "numbers game". I'm looking for relevant examples: examples where McDaniels, as OC, worked with and developed a young QB as starter in his rookie or 2nd season. I can find two examples: Sam Bradford, and Mac Jones. If Josh McDaniels gets an "A" for Mac Jones, but an "F" for Sam Bradford, that at best gives him a very mixed track record working with young QBs. This really shouldn't be hard to understand.

No, you gave me one other young QB McDaniels has had success with. I gave you one young QB McDaniels spectacularly failed with - outside the influence of Bill Belichick and the established "Patriots Way". The Patriots did not have a successful offense with Cam Newton. The Patriots did have a successful offense with Matt Cassell, but that was very much plugging a veteran guy who had understudied Tom for 5 years at that point, into an existing offensive machine with great talent and a great OL And all of the above was under the aegis of Bill Belichick - who is no longer there. I suppose we could look at how McDaniel did with Aiden O'Connell. He wasn't a 1st round pick, and McDaniel was HC not OC, but he surely bears some responsibility there. That wasn't pretty, either.

Facts: Alex Van Pelt was OC in Cleveland for 4 years, from 2020-2023. During that time, the Browns had 11 win records and went to the playoffs twice. Van Pelt also had a stint as OC of the Bills in 2009. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/VanPAl0.htm This and the Pats offense is all stuff you could verify on a site like pro-football-reference in like 10 seconds or less. Sure, the Patriots could have done worse than hire Josh McDaniels as OC but "could have done worse" is a very low bar

Buddy, you keep waving 1 year of Mac Jones around as evidence that Josh McDaniel is a good coordinator without Tom Brady and the offense and offensive talent that was put together around him. And Belichick was still there But ignoring the (-) argument I mentioned: Sam Bradford If you want to continue to talk to yourself "Josh McDaniel good! Everyone thinks so! Hurk Durk!", proceed, but people gonna stop engaging with you. If you want to have a discussion, you need to actually acknowledge and respond to people's posts, not just the points you cherry pick.

Whaaaat? Last time the Bills played the Chiefs, the Bills had 31 rushing attempts to 40 passing attempts. They ran less than they passed, but they were most certainly trying to run the ball. Now, they only achieved 104 rush yards for those 31 attempts (and 3 rush TDs but who's counting?). But theoretically, 3.35 YPA moves the chains.....

But let's not pretend that Geno Smith was a franchise QB when he was drafted, either. He had two bad years as the starter for the NY Jets. He then started a grand total of 1 game the rest of his contract with the Jets and 1 game for his next 2 teams, before taking a backup role with the Seahawks in 2019. He became Comeback Player of the Year and a pro-bowler - 9 seasons after he was drafted. A difference between Smith and Manuel is that Smith wanted to keep playing football enough to eat "humble pie" and compete for the role of backup. Manuel hung up his cleats and said "I'm Out".

I can't argue with the fact that they didn't value Jackson enough to use their original 1st round pick on him. My point was that it's revisionist to think that even the team that drafted Lamar were all "whoop! whoop! total franchise QB package here!". They weren't. They were "We could draft this a guy who has a unique skillset and playing style. And if we do, we can't just plug him into our offense as our QB. We will have to commit to designing an offense that fits his skillset so that we can use him effectively" Today, Lamar has evolved as a passer AND other offenses have evolved, to the point where there are a number of offenses that he could step into. But that wasn't the case, when Baltimore drafted him.

Send a case of Tamiflu and the 'mivirs to One Bills Drive

I think the jury is out on that - at best With Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, the whole "Patriots Way" support system, he was great. In St Louis, he totally stunk up the joint with a QB who had looked promising the year before (and returned to looking promising the year after); offense went from 25th to 32nd to 26th Back with Mac 'N Cheese, he was still able to plug into the last years of the "Patriots Way" So...we'll see If I were a Patriots fan looking at a very promising young QB, he is NOT who I'd most want to see.

When did Josh McDaniels have a top 10 offense with Cam Newton? The year Cam played for the Pats, their offense was 27th in the league (#4 for rush yards though) With Matt Cassell, Pats had an offense that was #1 in the league the previous year with Brady and still had Moss, Welker, and a stable of capable RBs; plugged in a QB who had 4 years to watch and learn; and got capable results. The bigger question for Pats fans who want to see Drake Maye reach his potential, is what results has McDaniel had developing QB? And you can't address that question without looking at Sam Bradford - who looked promising under Pat Shurmer, promising under Brian Shottenheimer, and like he just couldn't play in between with Josh McDaniel. Mac Jones their offense was #6 for points, I do grant that. So I give you 1 year of "+" and 1 year of (- - ) on McDaniel with a young QB.

How to stop Chiefs: 1) score more points 2) see 1)

I beg to differ with you. The Bills were prepared to be patient with Josh, I grant that. But c'Mon, man: the support structure they had in place for Allen's rookie year was either non-existent or bad to very bad: 1) no veteran QB on the roster opening day after they cut AJ McCarron 2) the only other QB was Peterdude, who had flamed out spectacularly in his previous start 3) the OL sucked great big wads, to the point where it simply couldn't support an adequate run game let alone protect the QB 4) the WR give me BBFS flashbacks just thinking about them *shudder* - Zay Jones, Robert Foster, and Fat Kelvin Benjamin. Jason Croom and Charles Clay at TE. 5) David Culley, I'm told he's a good coach, but his previous QB coaching experience was 30 years previous, at the FBS level, in Southwestern Louisiana

I don't have a strong position to debate, because I don't have all-22 of the play. But the screenshot you showed, the DB was playing catchup after having come off Cooper momentarily when he saw how open Kincaid was - and I believe the safety shifted his position towards Cooper when he saw him blow past the DB. Allen has thrown into "bracket" coverage like that successfully multiple times in his career - maybe not this season, IDK Also earlier than your screen shot, at the point where Josh was making his decisions, Coleman honestly was still embrangled with the guy covering him. That's how I see it, no further debate.

I will say this about Lamar pre-draft. There have been accounts that the Ravens had pre-draft meetings where they basically sat down and said something like: "if we draft Lamar Jackson, we have to be willing to tailor our offense to let him be successful. Are we All In for that? Because if we aren't, then we shouldn't" "Yes, we're all in, Let's Do It." "OK" They had Greg Roman already on their staff in 2017 who had designed successful offenses for Colin Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor, who aren't nearly the athletes Jackson is but who were along the same spectrum when they played. That may have helped them see it as possible. So they put the pieces together in 2018 and turned him loose in 2019.

I was thinking that very same thing. "Yo, lemme run right out and sign up to spend my money listening to these guys spew this stuff" Not The bottom line for me is that we like to act like it's the QBs who win or lose the games. And it's true that the QB is the player on the field who has the single greatest influence over the outcome. But in the end, there are 10 other offensive and 11 defensive players on the field every snap.