Generic_Bills_Fan

This is all overblown…josh got baited into a slant by a LB that dropped out late in the last game but I haven’t really noticed a lot of forcing the ball anywhere since week 1 where he was forcing it deep there was a play people are angry about where josh supposedly threw it to a double covered diggs but diggs had the double coverage beat for a td and the ball was exactly where it needed to be he just got held(no call of course). Davis was also open for a big gain on the first drive but he clearly got held(no call of course). Refs made this game look worse than it was by letting defenders absolutely manhandle passcatchers The holding was insane in this game lol had my conspiracy theory bells ringing that they were sick of blowout primetime games.. bills receivers were getting held all night. Hilariously ironic that the controversy of this game is one uncalled hold when there were dozens most of which were not in the bills favor

This is where I’m at lol I just don’t get it…if you’ve got diggs with an opportunity to catch the ball why would you pass it up to potentially target Davis or Knox….I think he’s gonna build a rapport with Kincaid too since he’s as sure handed as anybody plays have broken down nonstop the last two weeks I’d be lookin to diggs every time too. Can’t roll the dice on guys that can’t even catch wide open passes when you’ve got a limited number of chances to move the ball downfield the way the oline is playing I haven’t watched the video yet but I have seen people falsely criticizing multiple plays designed as a dumpoff to a rb with receivers in tight to block for them haha im gonna guess it’s that before watching

It just feels like the hindsight game to me personally but I respect the opinion for sure. Unless we could visit the alternate timeline where we punted there I guess we’ll truly never know 😂. the way I see it it was the odds of those two guys not connecting on a probably wide open pass and bass missing the fg vs running and punting and holding them but I can see people not interpreting it that way

I feel like you and I both know that is a massively exaggerated way to sum up how that play went wrong. I certainly respect the run and punt side of the argument but come on now lol it was a laughably wide open pitch and catch under 0 pressure. You could’ve called two random fans down there to play qb and TE and they probably complete that half the time 😂 a qb throwing lasers with instant pressure in his face all second half turning that wide open throw into a 50/50 ball was wildly unlikely but I def respect everyone’s right to criticize It’s just as likely elam gives up a big play and the giants end up punching it in on the run and punt situation to win the game and we’d all be sitting here criticizing that decision too.. they moved the ball down the sideline in chunks quite a few times

I do think the odds change a bit down the stretch where defenses start to get fatigued and they’re in four down territory…it’s not like they weren’t moving the ball all night. My thought is if elam wasn’t on the field we probably run once and punt but with a pretty moderate liability out there on defense they didn’t feel as comfy as they otherwise would have. There’s always a decent chance of a deep pi call these days completely neutralizing the field position advantage. your last sentence is what I really don’t understand but that could be a me thing I don’t think anyone is inherently wrong here lol the criticism side is factoring in the third and fourth down decisions as a lump single decision so why would the pro side not be allowed to factor in the odds of the Knox pass OR the fg succeeding. Those odds of winning the game were likely just as high or higher than the run on third down and punt. It wouldn’t have made sense to throw and then punt so the decision to kick the fg was more than likely made when that throw to Knox was called the alternative is to weigh the 3rd down play and 4th down play success rate separately…the criticism side doesn’t get to have it both ways imo. I explained my point way better here than my previous rambling nonsense post so hopefully nobody reads the old one 😂.

From talkin about this for awhile I think this is all a really interesting debate that can vary wildly based on how you assign probabilities to things. It’s true without a doubt that it would be questioned more if they lost. For me personally the coaches had a strong feeling that the throw to knox was a high percentage play based on what the giants defense had been doing to defend the run up to that point and it’s game over right there. it’s hard for me to personally say that part of it was a bad decision because it worked like an absolute charm…I think they hit that play probably 9 out of 10 times and much like they’re getting criticized now for it not working they’d look smart if it did. Can absolutely see the other side of it though As far as where the coaches were coming from I think they saw the odds of that play succeeding as much higher than a coin flip. Whether they should’ve or not is certainly up for debate lol

This is gonna be a big time agree to disagree I think 😂 obviously I’m not an nfl coach so you absolutely could be right but I’d imagine coaches plan for two play scenarios all the time…like a running play on third and medium because they have a passing play they like for fourth and short if they don’t pick it up. I think they absolutely crunch numbers on two play scenarios and likely had the thought that the fg is 50/50 when they called that play to Knox so factoring in the probability of both plays is exactly what they’re doing. If they didn’t have a passing play they liked on third down or didn’t like the odds of the fg they more than likely would’ve ran it and punted so the Knox catch probability is directly related to the fg probability. Again all speculation though because I am some dummy that watches the game from my couch lol I think they probably had a third and long passing play in mind before they even got the ball because that was the scenario they were most likely to end up in. I have trouble hating on the call because he was wide freakin open haha to each their own but when we’re evaluating the decision making of the coaches at the time I feel like I’d give a little bit more weight to the play design worked perfectly than the actual result. That’s certainly a personal taste thing though. If josh threw up a 50/50 ball to knox because nobody got any separation I’d be with the run and punt crew. I do get your point that they’re kind of separate events because you can technically punt after the throw to Knox but I think when the numbers get crunched they look several plays ahead. It was probably the odds of it being impossible to lose in regulation vs punting and playing defense when the Knox call was made and it’s personal taste whether that’s the right way to look at it. If the throw to Knox goes incomplete the giants have time and a timeout so the odds shift a good amount.

Giants got saquon back and their opponent lost their best player Daniel jones lol. In all seriousness though, Dexter Lawrence WRECKED the bills last night. Reminded me of all the times chris jones single handedly ruined us a few years ago. Pats just haven’t had that kind of impact player in the trenches this year Not as bad as the dolphins fans using the rings argument when they haven’t won one since the 70s

Offensive line problems, offensive line problems, and offensive line problems lol olines are just completely outmatched these days and the gap is getting bigger in favor of the defensive line. Even these ‘bad’ teams are loaded with disruptive players on the dline

The pi they actually called was way too ticky tacky to call a second in a row at the end of a game unless someone got straight up tackled with the ball in the air. I don’t have a problem with people complaining the second one was missed but the first one never should’ve been called imo…not the way that game was officiated. I was seeing a lot of grabbed jerseys

Tyrod is so much better than Daniel Jones for the giants current situation The whole thing is much ado about nothing. Jerseys were gettin grabbed all night (mostly by the giants). Two big uncalled holds killed bills drives

People aren’t really understanding the link between offense and defense it feels like…our defense can’t get anyone off the field which leads to worse field position, being behind on TOP, and the opposing defense stays fresher. the giants defense has been hung out to dry by their offense all year long so nobody really knows what they are capable of. They actually possessed the ball on offense decently for once which allowed that defense to fly all over the field for all four quarters. Usually they play well then gas out just before halftime because their offense has like 30 yards with 1 or 2 first downs lol then they put some long meaningless drive together in garbage time to even out the numbers a bit

Giants were holding all night on offense and defense…that seemed like their game plan as I’m sure Daboll watched the chiefs shut the bills down like that time after time when he was OC loL. its one of life’s greatest ironies that this much hoopla is being made about one missed hold late in the game. goal line/short yardage defense was outstanding. Second half josh was outstanding. Guys we haven’t had much faith in continue to play well on the defensive side.

Meh I wouldn’t say they got a gift…should’ve been pi late technically but the giants got away with a ton of holding all game long too. I was honestly surprised they called the first pi to close out the game based on what the giants were getting away with. davis got held on a probable td on the first drive…this pic everyone is using to illustrate we are apparently forcing the ball to diggs in double coverage diggs got held and that was a possible td also. Guys grab jerseys all night long it was kind of surprising to see it called late. Normally guys are only doing that late because they know they’ve been getting away with it. it’s tough to evaluate Dorsey… last year I think Josh’s elbow nuked the underneath passing game cuz his accuracy was shot and this year we’ve looked great when the offensive line holds up but those guys got absolutely steamrolled last night. Even these highly acclaimed play callers like Andy Reid and Ben Johnson’s offenses look pretty terrible when their offensive line is getting whooped. idk that the jags loss/almost giants loss are ‘all offense related’. It’s a little more nuanced than that. The defense couldn’t really get either teams offense off the field which really hurt field position and kept the opposing defenses fresh. The giants defense has been completely hung out to dry by their offense all season so we really don’t even know what those guys are capable of. Dexter Lawrence is a near Chris jones level beast. Look at their 40-0 loss to the cowboys, the cowboys had less offensive yards than we did last night if you can believe that lol

Diggs was actually the only one open on that play until getting held lol that’s exactly who the ball should’ve gone to and was probably a td…ball was put right where it needed to be. The ball is not at all getting forced to diggs…the giants baited him into some throws where linebackers dropped underneath and josh didn’t see them though

I def flubbed the yard lines for sure haha but I think the advanced metrics probably said go for it which is why we did it. Even if that pass to Knox and fg are both 50/50 it’s a 75% chance of hitting on one of those things then you gotta factor in the odds you actually pin them deep rather than a touchback…it was probably pretty close either way

He’s almost out of his joke portion though and mahomes has nearly a full division slate of joke games. The dolphins have played like 4 of the bottom 5 teams already 😂 I really thought our pass blocking turned the corner and this was gonna be Josh’s year but that does not seem to be the case. He’s still got a chance though The 1 pick didn’t hurt in itself but his total is a little high on the year and the low yardage total doesn’t help.. I wish they looked into the context a little more for mvp votes cuz the vast majority of Allen’s picks have been pretty good arm punts that strategically didn’t really hurt

The defenses in his division are so poopy though that I think he’s got a good chance. Tua is lucky the giants offense was completely inept last week he pretty much threw the game away on a couple picks if their offense could do anything

This was a weird game…like it wasn’t even that ‘ugly’ per se. The giants were just winning up front handedly. There were a few flukey plays keeping points off the board for both teams and a couple super long drives in the second half…felt like a 23-20 type game to me

That game should’ve helped his mvp case but with it being a primarily statistical award with 0 context it will hurt him a lot

Oh yea I wouldn’t argue that…pass blocking still seems to be a huge issue. The run blocking it appears he’s righted the ship on a bit though. So disheartening because it seemed like we may have had it figured out…even against the jets they didn’t look that bad

So weird I really thought the offensive line turned the corner in a well rounded way but it appears to be mostly in run blocking. The jags were wise to this and absolutely loaded the box knowing their rushers would get home on a passing play anyway…probably could’ve stood to run the ball more against the giants but to really commit to the run I feel like you’ve gotta be confident you can pick up a 3rd and medium passing the football and that did not seem to be the case last night

I think this is happening because we are adjusting for a bad offensive line though that’s the interesting part…this is a very damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. You’re giving up the route tree of one/two skill position players to shore up the oline. We probably could’ve run the ball under center more too I think that’s a valid criticism but that would’ve brought up more third and mediums likely that I’m not sure we would convert. I’ve watched the giants play all year being in downstate ny lol and their defense is honestly pretty good and a lot of their strengths are up front. Theyve got a great DT which always gives us problems. They’ve probably had the toughest starting schedule in the league and the giants miserable offense has been putting them in absolutely terrible situations. if their offense played a little better last week they would’ve absolutely been in the game vs Miami who had two huge turnovers. our defense has gone blameless because they’re fighting an uphill battle due to injuries but they gave up some long drives which kept our offense off the field…we only had 9 total drives. if you’re gonna miss all your fg attempts 14 points on 9 total drives when your offensive line is getting smoked sounds about right. If we had the typical 11-12 total drives we probably score 20 I think at least a portion of this outrage is the result of fans not really understanding the opponent. To me it was just as much about our defense not being able to prevent long drives limiting our offense as our offense limiting our offense. Some of that was due to unintentionally benching absolute clown Daniel jones for a qb with more mobility and some was saquon returning…hard to say how good/bad this current iteration of the giants offense is though Also when we started to get them on the ropes to begin the cycle of gassin out their defense the giants conveniently started a big fight that bought them like 10 minutes to catch their breath I thought that was pretty bush league from Daboll but it was pretty clever lol

I really don’t know if I’m taking crazy pills or something but it seems as simple as…pass blocking bad offense bad. Pass blocking good offense good to me for years now lol if we hold up up front we destroy teams typically. Idk if people don’t want to believe this or they want to blame the qb/skill position players/ play design or what but the OL was a massive issue last night to the point where who even knows what the play design is? Everything broke down pretty much instantly. And you’ve got skill position players in chipping to help the OL out and they’re still getting smoked so that’s limiting the route tree of one/multiple pass catchers just to not quite hold up in pass protection. people are like ohhh Ben Johnson in Detroit what a genius…one of the best offensive lines. Oh Andy Reid another genius….perennially one of the best offensive lines. Oh eagles OC from last year that I forgot the name of lol genius…one of the best offensive lines. Games where their olines don’t hold up they look just as bad as anyone else. Look at philly and kc vs the jets this year

Bills undoubtedly once people settle down in the next few days lol they would trade places with us in an instant