Einstein's Dog

No the act of squaring up does not make it fair game to swing away. You're making up your own rules here. And then trying to justify them. But can't you see with your logic you would be encouraging/promoting more fighting - and that's not really the what society is going for here. You would want to be the one throwing the first punch because it increases your odds of winning. So in conclusion, no squaring up does not mean you are agreeing to fight, no you don't get to hit someone who has squared up because you consider it self defense, and no you shouldn't always try to get in the first punch.

And that illustrates part of the problem - there is no hard definition of a trap game. So the purported statistical studies are based on a subjective definition of the term "trap game".

I think if Davis or Diggs get injured they would move Crowder to the outside and put McKenzie in the slot (until Shakir overtakes McK). It does seem a little risky and maybe they are looking at either TY Hilton or W Fuller at a good price.

Well they just did finally put the hammer down on the B Hall thread, so this isn't all that unexpected.

I would think outside WR3 would be on the short list of remaining FA, Sanders old spot has not been replaced. This seems now higher on the list than CB. As it looks now the WR group is slightly behind last year. Diggs/Davis -same, Crowder slightly better than Beas, McK - same, and then 5th round pick or Kumerow seem like a big drop from Sanders. It seems short sighted to wait until an injury to bring in a WR, they take time to gel. Could bring back Sanders. Julio seems like he would be expensive but still out there, W Fuller has speed. Maybe Crowder can go outside- Beas never did.

I agree with you, I like Davis as #2 and think he overtook Sanders by year end for the WR2 job. My concern is outside WR#3 which had been by years end Sanders. Now if Davis goes down, it gets tricky. I don't think Kumerow or the 5th rounder are the answer. Maybe Crowder can slide over and have McKenzie in the slot (I kind of liked McK in the slot over Beas at the end of the year). Maybe, they bring back Sanders for the backup, seems like he was saying all the right things - wouldn't cause waves taking the backup role. But it seemed like Sanders was fading fast (kind of similar to J Brown's rapid slide).

Enjoyed the read, thx. Couple of points came to mind for me: I think Shakir will help the ST by quickly winning over the return duties. I think WR group as it stands right now is a little weaker than it was last year. Most are the same and Crowder, I think, will be a slight improvement over the declining Beas. And Davis will be in his third year another slight improvement. But the Sanders void was not filled, currently I don't see a third outside WR.

Yes, after further review, Sanders prices may be too much. And I don't know about Fuller being a process kind of guy, his injury/not playing history kind of makes it look like he isn't. I think another outside WR would be nice though.

A 28 yo, veteran, 4.32 speed WR coming off a thumb injury (big whoop). Beane has to offer at least $6M. Fuller was stuck in Miami last year, no need to come back fast from that. This guy is better for '22 than J Williams would be. And those top 10 rookies get close to $5M I think.

AJ signed with AZ. I need you on the W Fuller bandwagon - 4.32 speed at Sanders prices.

This has been my hope. That the FO went into the draft with the possibility of CB (Wallace) and WR (Sanders) spots open. They didn't hit on the Sanders position and so now they should finish it off in FA. I think Stevenson may be done - the recently acquired 5th rounder has done special team returns. The FA WR market is tight however. Julio Jones, Will Fuller, TY Hilton, maybe Sanders again, OBJ (though injured), and maybe D Jackson (though ancient). I'm rooting for Will Fuller! Serious veteran speed would fit like a glove here. Get in done Beane! I almost did a Pounding the Table for Will Fuller thread - but those haven't been turning out so well.

Pounding the table for Will Fuller! The FO intentionally went into the draft with two holes - CB (Wallace) + WR (Sanders). They did not fill the Sanders spot (and no, a 5th round pick that went after the run on kickers does not count). The FA money goes to the WR. Of the WRs - W Fuller is the man. He is the speed man that would fit like a glove in this offense. His injury history is what is holding him back from big money, and on a prove it deal I think Beane could get him for Sanders money.

Did you see Hall's interview? Not really a process guy from what I saw. Hall will be lucky to average 4.6 ypc with the Jets. I would much prefer C Watson and a 3rd round RB

C Watson vs B Hall 1. Speed C Watson > B Hall CW ran 4.34, BH ran a 4.39 2. Height C Watson > B Hall CW over 6'4, BH lucky to be 6' 3. Finance spot C Watson > B Hall CW takes Sanders $6M spot, B Hall takes either Singletary/Moss $2M 4. Potential C Watson > B Hall CW has M Williams/W Fuller $20M, BH has $7M L Fournette 5. Attitude C Watson > B Hall CW is small school Joshlike, BH kind of a doosh

Maybe not in a few hours though- there are a lot of mocks that have Hall going to us at 57 (where he is a much better fit).

I'm with you, it's time to groom another RB to take Singletary's place. But that RB should not be a 1st round pick.

It's not pretend. Many (myself included) think that taking an RB in the first damages the mid to long term outlook. You are ignoring the financial impact of the draft choice in hopes of a short term boost. If the Bills could draft a WR, safety, CB, LB you can see the logical use from a mid term perspective - they will be groomed to replace expensive spots with a $3M player. What if the RB is average? You have an overpriced player occupying a spot on your roster. If the WR is average at least they are occupying the Sanders spot of $6M. It is risky picking an RB. And contrary to many, I particularly don't like Hall, I thought from the interview I saw he came off pompous and arrogant. Seems like our FO has a different view.

The criteria of "Will this pick help us win now" is the epitome of short term thinking I hope our FO is not using in the draft. The draft should be for the future benefit of the team. Cap management through the draft is extremely important for maintaining long term success. The draft should be done with an eye towards future finances- safety (Poyer $13M), LB (Edmunds $15M), even CB (Wallace $4M), WR (Sanders $6M) all make more financial sense than Hall ($3M) replacing Singletary ($2M).

J Williams was listed as chosen I think 7 times in the overall look. G Wilson was the TBD choice in one of our mocks, so it's possible. If the FO likes Watson they should absolutely take him if available at 25. Trading down would be reckless, especially with Green Bay and Kansas City with close by picks.

Reasons I hate the idea: 1. Short sighted - the draft had been for the future, this screams short term. 2. RB is not a premium position. If Hall becomes as good as Fournette, you have a $7M guy, if the WR is good like C Kirk you have a $15-20M player. 3. Hall had a terrible interview on the show I saw, he isn't even the best RB in this class. He was pompous and arrogant. Also he doesn't play 4.4 fast. 4. Taking an RB in the first puts pressure on Dorsey/McD to run more - I don't want that pressure/influence on the offense. 5. Not only would I not want to give a second contract to an RB, the recent round 1 RBs would hold out before that anyway (Zeke, LeVeon). 6. Hall at around $3M replaces the $2M Singletary. Meanwhile we neglect that next year we have $15M Edmunds and $13M Poyer. 7. The genius title for Beane would have to be revisited- this would be an error in the overall plan of a continued successful team.

I think/hope J Williams, G Wilson, T Burks, and C Watson would all be in play.

What, no WR coverage? I think it is a distinct possibility. My hope is that the FO is using the draft for the future benefit of the club. That means BPA at a positions that make financial sense. Lots to choose from: CB, WR, IOL, even Safety could go in the first. Then the others plus LB and RB and way late P. Breece Hall @25 is not drafting with the financial future in mind and would seriously disappoint me.

Objection to a lot of things in this OP. First, the FO uses the draft for the future, not short term objectives, so grading in on the first year results is not the way to assess the value. A key component of drafting for the future is using the draft as a cap management tool. A great way to manage the cap is to use the 1st round pick with the BPA at a premium position of use. Secondly, while Diggs was an excellent trade it pales in comparison to choosing JA17. And this highlights the above, the first year results are not the way to assess how well a draft is done. If for instance J Williams is picked and has a JA17 like trajectory where he becomes a top 5 WR in 2-3 years, it would be well worth it.

What if they try it a little differently this time and bring in a younger CB that has to get over the injury prone label? There are ones out there like Buoye/K King/Callahan - that have been good CBs but haven't played through full seasons. After the draft I hope the FO acts quickly with their thought out price points and grabs one.

Agreed. The draft needs to consider the future and should not be based on immediate need. The BPA at a premium position of use is the best way to get future benefit of managing the cap. When you adhere to that line of thinking you don't take an RB in the first. I would like to see a stud WR taken in the first. If not available, I can see Booth. Also, I could see Daxton Hill, because I like his versatility and future as a safety replacement. In later rounds an RB, IOL, and punter.