Dukestreetking

Ok, I'll try to sneak in a comment to answer some of the interesting questions/issues. Won't be able to cover whole gamut right now, and I'll prob repeat what some have said. 1. Law of (potential) deadly force self-defense (SD) is not emotional or "court of public opinion"...it is a set of standards that are weighed against evidence. 2. Cops have generally same standards but more privileges/immunities. 3. Some of the theoretical cases w/n the thread are not relevant to present issue. 4. As to Chef bar fight example: it begins to bleed into the sticky wicket of "mutual combat" law, which can remove certain SD privileges. The branches and sequels of that combat are too numerous to concisely address in this forum. However, in Chef's specific example, he would almost certainly not be charged, if the assumptions are true. Chef not aggressor=Innocence standard; he matched punch for punch=Proportional; the mutual combat was singular (he didn't sucker punch me 20m later)=Imminence; he fought vs me instead of just sitting there getting his ass kicked=Reasonable. Again, I emphasize that it's particularly complicated. 5. As mentioned, WI is a "shall open carry" state under standard firearm license. Meaning, you are allowed to carry openly; only a CCW/CCP allows concealment. Thus the LAW, not one's personal feelings, recognizes such an act is not inherently aggressive. 6. With that in mind, one can have general poor judgement/be stupid yet he still retains, in a deadly force encounter, all the relevant SD privileges. I'm not suggesting KR was particularly stupid, btw. 7. In the case of "defending vs active shooter" (imv, not proven in this case), the standard is "good faith". I won't further describe as I have example up-thread. More to say about this case's circumstances (I actually watched it live via a protester vid stream) but will have to weigh in later. Sorry for long post.

@Chef Jim I want to work with you on this and...I don't want to sound pedantic. But very humble suggestion: start w the 4 basics of privileged self-defense. I've noted them up-thread. Once those are in mind, it will help you sift the wheat fr the chaff in this case (doesn't mean, per se, the jury won't convict...but they shouldn't). That said, I'll admit my bias: I am an absolute hawk on self-defense, as I believe the right arises from natural vice positive law. Read the Federalist papers to understand that position.

My goodness. I don't have the time right now to provide all the "facts in evidence"...but... I'll just address why he was in the street (not that it matters in the law of self-defense). A-hole #1 started a dumpster fire. KR moved from his position to extinguish the fire, as he had done twice previously. This further inflamed AH#1, which then led to him chasing KR down the street (recall the "friendly, friendly, friendly" shout fr KR in the car parking lot, captured on vid).

It's not that I want to ask; I have to ask, and I hate myself for it. What is getting tubed by an eagle?

We in NF do have one thing the Canadians seriously lack: copious amounts of gunfire... celebratory, targeted, collateral. You want it, we got it. Soooo, come on over and get your fill!

Btw, over last several days I read the DA and the independent Wray reports on Blake incident (87, 25pp respectively). To save everyone the trouble. 1. Both found a completely justified shooting (full sequence) by Ofc Shesky. 2. The investigative facts established don't exactly match up w public/media information. And I mean that quite sarcastically.

I have to retract: the mobile version is so glitchy that the dynamic tables make no sense, esp for 2021. Indeed, the page says you should use PC not cell phone. If I figure it out, I'll let thread know. Btw, data under Snap Rates: Shotgun v Under Center

Bills are 21st in league in shotgun (59%) vs under center. So they aren't really a shotgun heavy team. Highest is Bal at 96% . Via sharpfootballstats. I couldn't find game to game breakouts, so I don't know if Sun was a significant deviation. Retraction: mobile dynamic table very glitchy; data incoherent. Will try to update.

The legal standard in such a case is "good faith". Ex: school shooting. Armed janitor and plain clothes police enter the building. Former shoots the latter b/c he thinks he's the bad guy. Assuming other self-defense tests met, it's likely a "clean shoot" and janitor should not be prosecuted. In the KR case, was he displaying attributes of an active shooter? I won't go into the facts in evidence, but the answer, to my mind, is no. @Beast I believe answered correctly the other issue you raised.

Interesting post...I realize where you're coming from (per prior msg) and it is indeed an old saw that juries vote on emotion, not the law. The schwerpunkt in this case is the Rosenbaum encounter, imv. If not justified, the house comes tumbling down. However, the state has not weaved a "beyond reasonable doubt" narrative fact pattern, judged v doctrinal self-defense elements: innocence, imminence, proportionality, and reasonableness (avoidance not applicable under WI law). The jury should therefore acquit on homicide charges. To say otherwise is to not understand the rich tradition of self-defense law, nor the constitutional case law that develops the 2A "regulated militia..." clause, nor the present "facts in evidence". Wildcards are reckless endangerment count, jury instructions re provocation, and poor defense closing. He may get torqued on the RE charge if the jury thinks, well, we have to convict him of something.

Funny line from jets forum re undisciplined play: "The penalties are the cherry on top of the suck" (Sorry have to add another I just saw. Win poverty begets genius) Once burned is normal Twice burned is foolish Thrice is heracy Four times is Jetsian

I agree, but a question: does GD look like he has a "play thru it" injury, like turf toe or something? He's running....funny. Seems to have a hitch in his giddy-up. Even seen it in practice vids. Maybe just me, but he still looks a little off.

Indeed, the Bills and Jests are mathematical asymptotes.

This is Dennis Miller/master level cultural reference. Unreal. Teach us, oh wise one.

Bills offense to Knox be like:

The demise of JA17 has been greatly exaggerated (by national media)!!

He's joking: this is sarcasm...it just never seems to translate well in text form.

It's maddening, esp b/c I can assure you w 💯 certainty that everyone knew of this problem. I should add, however, that there were/are some very good combat units, most working b/w/t SoF or other USG organizations. And, believe it or not, alot of these guys were crazy brave, even if incompetent.... could be due to all the hash they smoke!

Glomming on to @Logic theme: ColossalNeatKite-mobile.mp4

As there are few quick fixes in the wings (aside from Brown's return) I would suggest a bigger role for Mck. Looking to add some more pop/dynamism to the O. Hap said earlier he's only getting 16 percent of snaps; that's a motion/jet sweep giveaway. Can Bills double that? Of course, that leaves a ST question. Imv, I would pull him from KR but maintain PR role, if any. Realize that's risky, but all changes carry some risk. Finally GB: to me, he looks like he's been nursing some (small) injury all season. Less explosive routes, etc. Just a spitball thought.

Wow brother: a field corpsman, MEF capable, active (I believe that's the squid rating?!)... straight up badass. Wish you the best: stay safe my friend. Meanwhile, a well worn phrase, but appropriate for you and those still serving:

I was going to thoughtfully reply to this--using the utter absence of doctrinal res ipsa loquitur and lack of "facts in evidence"--but further colloquy would get us nowhere. Honestly, anyone who still believes Mike Brown was "murdered" (per your poster) has only a loose association with...well, the Truth. I urge you to read the Obama DoJ report on the matter, which finds no evidence for Ofc Wilson indictment. Take care and good luck.

Meh...I lurk every once in a while, and rarely comment (only when my HR is, say, +150). Impossible to persuade, or genuinely discuss complexity in this type of media... subjects that would include law(s) of self-defense, even though it basically comes down to IIRP standard. Btw, KR clearly meets this threshold, despite the fact that it wasn't a great idea to be there.

Whichever fight brings in the $...the UFC way (not anything wrong w it). Anyway, I was cracking up about the context of your comment: can you imagine anyone actually wanting to fight Usman? These dudes are freaking nuts.

Poem: excerpt fr his short work, Soliloquy. I read...the room gets dusty. GB: best part=much better non-mission living conditions than real heroes (infantry, grunts). Worst part=always in civies--western/otherwise--instead of cool uniforms that attract the chicks! Also: remiss in forgetting to give an ooh-rah for USMC birthday. Semper Fi. Combining above...in tribute to friend, USMC Ltc LM. Miss you brother. He's the bad ass in the middle; I'm the stocky punk on the left.