The Senator

I was simply comparing their records over the same 3-season period on the same team with the same supporting cast. As for RJ improving 'had we left him as the starter', it's not like the Bills 'yanked' him. I can't possibly imagine someone like Jim Kelly letting Doug Flutie snatch the starting QB job by having a bruised rib keep him sidelined for 7 weeks. You tape the thing, suck it up, and keep your job. RJ was a wuss, and that allowed Flutie to move up. But lets leave RJ and Kelly out of the discussion - every time I mention one of them to help make a point, folks say I'm comparing them to Flutie. I'm not. I'm just trying support the point of the original poster that Flutie was a good QB, but the Flutie-bashers will have none of it. It's really quite amusing how they refuse to acknowledge that simple, incontrovertible statement of fact. Say that Flutie was a good QB, and all of sudden, with unbelievable vitriol, you're called a 'Flutie-worshipper', or you 'have your head in his crotch'. No, there goes someone trying to have it both ways again. You guys are real quick to cry foul and say that "Flutie didn't win those games- the team did", but then you talk out of the other side of your mouths and say that Flutie alone is responsible for the playoff loss to Miami. I simply point out that Flutie alone didn't cost us that game - there were critical errors by others, including the defense, that were key factors. Try again.

No, there you go again, running in circles, chasing your tail. Can you explain why the Bills went 4-12 in 1986 and 7-9 in '87 with Jim Kelly at QB? (And don't say I'm comparing Kelly and Flutie - I'm not!) Some teams are just so bad that even the best QBs can't save 'em. In the case of the Flutie and the Chargers, they were 1-15 the season before Flutie arrived, had just gone thru a complete front-office overhaul, and coach Mike Riley was on the way out. Also, Flutie was 40 years old - even the best have to hang it up eventually. Keep digging - you may come up with a valid point in another 20 pages or so.

So we've come full circle - thank you for helping me make my point. Rob Johnson had that same top ranked defense and supporting offensive cast, yet only managed to rack up a 7-10 record in the same 3-year period. Somehow, Flutie found ways to win that others couldn't.

Can I quote you on that? Because you're the only one that used those words. But I guess Miami didn't score points off the Moulds fumble in the 1st quarter, the Smedley interference penalty in the 2nd, or the facemask penalty on Cummings in the 4th. I guess Flutie wasn't 21 for 36 and 360 yards. The Bills vaunted run defense didn't yield over 100 rushing yards. And I guess Moulds didn't blow a late touchdown opportunity with that 15 yard penalty for bumping the official. It all came down to Flutie's fumble.

And because the Bills lost that game, Flutie's not a winner. Priceless.

No, I'm not comparing Flutie to Kelly. Not at all. I simply pointed out that Kelly lost 6 playoff games in response to your ridiculous attempt to prove that, because he didn't win every single game he played, Flutie was not a winner. And you really are getting very silly in a vain attempt to make a point that is apparent to no one but yourself - please provide a quote where I wrote the words, "all he does is win" - you can't, because I didn't.

Please try not to be ridiculous. I believe Jim Kelly also lost some games (6 playoff games, actually). Flutie's record as a starter in Buffalo was 22-9. That's how I can say he found ways to win.

Yet the Bills went 10-5 in games he started that season.

Yes, very similar - 2006 was w/out question Losman's best season. He was rated the 11th best passer in the NFL, with an 84.9 passer rating. I don't think Flutie was ranked quite that high in '99 - I'm guessing he was probably somewhere in the 'middle of the pack'. (edit - or, as The Philster would say, "a crappy QB")

I never stated that you said anything in favor of Johnson. I was simply saying that Frez may have a point, since Flutie did score more points and win more games than Johnson. Try to keep up. I know 21 pages is tedious. Do you have some visceral need to insult folks who differ with your views? Can't quite figure out where the hostility is coming from, but if it makes you feel better to lash out at me, or Frez, or anyone and everyone that doesn't share your opinion, then go ahead and have your catharsis. Flutie's not my hero, just a guy who played well while he was in a Bills uniform. That some folks refuse to acknowledge that fact is amusing. All the original poster was saying - some 21 pages ago, before the Flutie-haters took the opportunity to pile on (which took all of 2 replies)- was that Flutie was a good QB. Don't blame "Flutie-worshippers" for what happened 2 posts later, and continues for 21 pages. And, BTW, in 1999, DF was 10-5 as a starter, throwing for 3200 yards and 19 TDs. Not MVP material, but far from "crappy". It was also the last year the Bills saw post-season play.

Repeat it as often as you like - doesn't make it any less ludicrous. Flutie was the tougher of the two QBs- and the smarter - and seemed to find ways to win. Wade was stupid to keep Flutie on the bench in favor of RJ. TD was stupid to choose RJ over Flutie. How'd the Bills do during that TD/Greggo/Mularkey era, anyway? Any post-season action?

Me winning isn't. You do.

Yes yes, you are correct - I should have said that he was 'released', not that he 'left'. The Bills did indeed release him - and too bad they made that bad decision, since Flutie got them to the playoffs 2 consecutive seasons, compiling a 22-9 W-L record as a starter, while Wade's boy, SoCal surfer wuss, couldn't quite match Flutie's winning ways, compiling a 7-10 W-L record during the same period, leading the Bills to an 8-8 record in 2000 and, of course, missing the playoffs - which we've missed every freaking year since Flutie was 'released'. But then, Wade made lots of stupid decisions.

Yet the following season Johnson was 4-7 as a starter, while Flutie put up a 4-1 record when starting in place of the oft-injured SoCal surfer wuss. I believe our defensive unit was the same no matter which QB played, yes?

There's a whole category of this stuff (prank calls) on the 'net, some by individuals, others by groups like The Jerky Boys, etc. - a few of 'em are pretty hysterical...

Excuse me... That's FatLazyStupidLardAss

looks like school's out for summer

19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! PosLUSZny!!!!!

Wasn't T.O already 'taken to the woodshed' by a 5' 7", 130 lb. blond?

As I recall, the Bills missed the playoffs Kelly's first 2 seasons, then lost in the playoffs 2 consecutive years before that tremendous 4-year Superbowl run, losing all 4 of those. We'll never know what Flutie might have accomplished since, as has been pointed out, he was promised a chance to compete for the starting QB job, then relegated to backup as Wade Phillips reneged on that commitment and named SoCal surfer kitty Rob Johnson the starting QB before training camp. Flutie finally earned the starting position based on his stellar play during the time surfer boy was recovering from injuries suffered while falling on a football, and led the Bills to the playoffs. The following season, Flutie started 15 games and led the Bills to the playoffs for the second consecutive season, only to be benched again by big fat stupid Wade in favor of surfer dude. In 2000, Flutie was named backup to surfer boy again, and went 4-1 as a starter in the games that surfer wimp was injured. (Oft-injured RJ was 4-7 as a starter that year). Then, Flutie left the Bills. (Who could blame him for leaving, or for having a 'chip on his shoulder' after being jerked around for 3 seasons by Wade & Co.?) So it's extremely unreasonable to just say of Doug Flutie, "Oh yeah? Did he guide us to any Superbowls?"

Yes but, at 88, Mickey Rooney is a still a 'spring chicken', relative to the rest of 'em. Also, I think you meant Harry Morgan (Col. Potter/Bill Gannon), age 94, - Frank Morgan (The Wizard) died in 1949. I was reading in the news the other day that Mitch Miller turns 98 on Saturday. Art Linkletter is 96, youngster Jack Lalanne is 94.

NAMBLA

Umm, I think that's one of the points in this never-ending thread - the Bills benched Flutie once he got us to the playoffs. We'll never know what might have been, since Wade opted to bench Flutie in favor in RJ. Or do I have that wrong?

I'm not buying in. Sounds to me like a guy who hates to lose, and also maybe sick & tired of folks laying the blame solely on him. Folks seem to want to single out Flutie for criticizing some key errors while overlooking his own, and call it 'self-promotion' and 'divisiveness', but there was another Bills QB that did the same thing... "The 'Bickering Bills' built a dynasty on internecine squabbling, reaching four straight Super Bowls in the early 1990s. The Bills may have had more feuds per capita than any other team. First, quarterback Jim Kelly called offensive lineman Howard Ballard a "weak link" for allowing a sack. Then running back Thurman Thomas criticized Kelly for criticizing Ballard. Asked in an interview to identify the team's weakest position, Thomas replied, "Quarterback." When he wasn't bad-mouthing his line and his backfield, Kelly had running feuds with wide receivers Andre Reed and Chris Burkett. Many believe Burkett was cut at Kelly's prompting. On defense, there were sideline fights between Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett. And two Bills assistant coaches got into a fistfight while watching game film." link ...yet I don't see anyone bashing that guy.

Sorry - it's just hard for me to take seriously a 'journalist' that calls himself, "Bucky"