Mikie2times

I wanted to hear cincys thoughts as well. I've only caught a few Bengals games, but have seen enough to know they have a pretty awful run defense, not Buffalo bad, but bad by NFL standards. Who knows how much of a role Thornton plays in all of that, but it can’t be the greatest sign if they want him to restructure after signing not to long ago.

Come on Nemhoff, it's Ngata. Let's pick up the execution around here!

His Name is Robert Paulson His Name is Robert Paulson Just picked up on the handle By the way good job picking up on the obvious mistake ESPN made. According to the Bills web site the capacity at the Ralph is 73,967. So by taking that figure into account instead of the 80,020 ESPN has us down for, The Bills average filling 97.2% of the stadium for home games. I was under the impression we’ve sold out all the home games this year, so if that’s the case perhaps these numbers reflect actual attendance figures, and not just tickets purchased.

My first choice would be Seger. He's a god in Michigan, but even the biggest stage in the world with a ton of $ probably won't get him to play again.

"Posing nude for your artwork today is Kzoo Mike, Ron Jeremy, John Holmes, Tommy Lee, and Vida"

Do they ever come out with yearly total revenue figures? I know they come out with the annual franchise value, ticket cost, attendance etc. But as you pointed out that doesn't necessarily show who's bringing in the most money.

I don't think anything, TS just asked for average ticket prices, so I did a search for average ticket prices, and also came across the study on how ticket prices are set.

2004 NFL tickets Average ticket price for NFL teams in 2004: Team Price 1. Patriots------ $77.25 2. Redskins----- $64.65 3. Broncos------ $63.47 4. Chiefs-------- $62.72 5. Giants-------- $62.37 6. Jets----------- $62.17 7. 49ers--------- $61.75 8. Eagles-------- $60.32 9. Bears--------- $59.68 10. Lions--------- $59.04 11. Raiders------- $58.86 12. Bucs---------- $56.37 13. Vikings-------- $54.76 14. Colts---------- $53.92 15. Panthers------ $53.62 16. Chargers------ $53.40 17. Saints--------- $52.75 18. Rams ----------$52.31 19. Texans--------- $52.11 20. Bengals-------- $51.95 21. Ravens--------- $51.21 22. Cowboys------- $51.13 23. Steelers-------- $49.93 24. Seahawks ------$48.68 25. Browns-------- $46.51 26. Packers-------- $46.25 27. Dolphins-------- $46.17 28. Titans----------- $45.59 29. Cardinals-------- $44.21 30. Falcons---------- $44.14 31. Jaguars---------- $43.77 32. Bills-------------- $38.38 Leading Factors involved in pricing Linky Ranked in order of importance 1. Team Performance 2. Revenue Needs 3. Public Relations 4. Market Toleration 5. Fan Identification 6. Average League Price 7. Economic Factors 8. Facility Capacity 9. Competing Entertainment 10. Average Income 11. Condition of Facility 12. Population 13. Schedule 14. Television/Media Coverage 15. Accessibility 16. Star Players 17. Racial Composition 18. Weather Conditions

Vince Young is averaging a sack every 20.62 drop backs.

I don't see people not showing up in 2006, maybe 2007 if we have another bad year, but not 2006. TD will go crazy this off-season, he has to, because another bad year and he's probably out. We have a deep following, and most will probably be willing to shell out for tickets again if TD makes some popular moves.

From a financial standpoint TD runs the Bills very efficiently, and he brought with him a fairly lofty reputation as General Manager. For Ralph TD was the perfect hire, it brought the expectation of winning to the fans, and likely financial gain. Those two things probably head the list of things an owner looks for in a GM, so Ralph decided to bring TD aboard and all appeared to be rosy. Fast forward to now and you know the records. The original plan of TD bringing a winning team to Buffalo hasn't worked out, but the financial gains are even higher then expected. I believe Ralph is a man that cares about his legacy; he cares about how people remember him, and how much he can leave to his family. During the TD tenure Ralph was making that extra fortune for his family, and despite the losing he had a GM with the nickname Teflon. For the past four years we've blamed coaches, players, and the GM. Now TD is under a lot of pressure, and the statistical disaster that has been his tenure so far is on the front page. Say what you will about TD’s individual moves, but the case reporters can make against him is overwhelming if they’re on the attack. Now people are starting to think if this is what TD has done, why isn’t Ralph going to do anything about it. For the first time in a long time, some people are pointing fingers at the owner, not the GM, coach, or players. That hurts Ralph’s legacy and that isn't something he is going to tolerate as he continues to age. The question is will enough fingers be pointing at Ralph by the end of 2005 to overtake the financial benefits of TD? Realistically I see those things balancing out at the end of the season with TD sticking around another year. If he turns it around in 2006 he will most likely stay for the long term, if not I see it being his last season as GM.

That was great

Over Harrington’s career he averages a sack every 23.09 drop backs. Compared to the league average of 14.37 that number is outstanding. Perhaps a good deal of that can be attributed to Morningwhig and Mooch running the west coast, but a number that high doesn't occur unless the line is pass blocking well, and the QB is getting rid of it early. Harrington and the Lions line might be doing a great job at avoiding sacks, but that doesn't mean they throw efficiently, run block, play defense, etc.. What's going on in Detroit involves Harrington, much like our problems last season involved Bledsoe, but just because a player is involved in the problems doesn't neccesarily mean their the only ones causing them.

Is this for real? Nobody felt compelled to defend Eli because they were to busy calling him the biggest best since Tony Mandrich. His performance last year nearly got him thrown out of New York City. You think the Bills fans freaked out? Try putting on an even worse show then JP in a media city like that. It wasn't like all the Giants fans sat around patiently knowing that their Peyton Manning would emerge. The guy was under a ton of pressure, and media and fan base was questioning if he could get it turned around. Even if you refuse to allow that into some of the faultiest logic I ever seen, how does the fan, or media’s need to defend somebody have anything to do with a QB's future chance at a success? Are you implying that if a players pedigree was higher then JP's we would all be comfortable enough with a poor performance to not question his ability? Eli may come from the same gene pool as Archie and Peyton, but the consensus was Losman being the most physically gifted QB in the draft that year, just not the most polished. I can't say for sure he's going to be a great QB, but I know for a fact neither can anybody else, especially not somebody basing their logic on an obscure opinion that makes little sense, and has no evidence to back it up with.

Duh..... It is pass attempts per sack; I guess I just had a blonde moment. I'll edit the first post.

How many sacks a team allows in a given year has a lot to do with how many passes a team attempts. So if you’re going to evaluate an offensive line, a much better indication of their ability is average number of pass attempts per sack, as opposed to overall sacks allowed. What I did was find the average number of pass attempts per sack for every team and year from 2002-2005. Below is the best 15 seasons, and worst 15 seasons teams have registered during that time frame. I also combined each teams stats to find it's overal pass attempts per sack average since 2002. Keep in mind the NFL average for this statistic from 2002-2005 is a sack every 14.37 attempts. Top 15 Year......Team...............Pass Attempts per Sack 2003......Detroit...........................53.45 2004......Green Bay......................42.71 2005......Indianapolis....................37.89 2004......Indianapolis....................37.64 2004......Denver...........................34.73 2003......Indianapolis.....................29.95 2005......Green Bay.......................28.86 2002......Detroit............................28.85 2002......San Francisco..................25.95 2003......Tampa Bay......................25.74 2002......Indianapolis.....................25.70 2003.......Kansas City.....................25.52 2003......Green Bay.......................24.89 2005.......Cincinnati.......................24.07 2002.......Tennessee.......................23.81 Bottom 15 Year......Team...............Pass attempts per sack 2005......Houston.............................5.76 2002......Houston.............................5.88 2004......Chicago.............................7.14 2005......Minnesota..........................7.57 2004......Atlanta..............................7.90 2002......Dallas................................8.72 2005......San Francisco.....................8.84 2005......NY Jets...............................9.11 2004.......NY Giants...........................9.13 2005.......Buffalo...............................9.44 * 2004.......Houston.............................9.61 2003.......Buffalo...............................9.84 * 2004.......Pittsburgh...........................9.94 2003.......Baltimore..........................10.12 2005.......St. Louis............................10.51 2002-2005 (From worst to first) TEAM........Pass Attempts per sack (2002-2005) Houston …………7.8 Chicago …………10.5 Buffalo ………….10.7 * Minnesota………10.8 Atlanta ………….11.2 Baltimore………11.8 Dallas ………….12.1 St. Louis…………12.5 Pittsburgh………12.6 Cleveland………13.2 Washington……13.4 NY Jets ………….13.5 Arizona ………….13.5 New Orleans…..13.6 Carolina………….14.2 NY Giants…………14.4 San Francisco….14.4 Jacksonville………14.6 Tampa Bay………14.7 Philadelphia………14.8 Miami………….......14.9 Oakland …………..15.4 Seattle ………….. 15.5 Cincinnati………….16.7 Tennessee…………18.0 New England……..18.6 Kansas City……….18.6 Denver …………...18.7 San Diego…………..20.5 Detroit …………......21.5 Green Bay…………..27.8 Indianapolis…………31.2

Thanks for the kind words, here is the category %Positive Plays as it compares to completition %, If you would like to see others let me know. These aren't the actual values of the stat, just how each player ranked overall in both areas. In the NFL QB rating completition % makes up 25% of the overall value. Name----------------------------%Positive Plays--------------------COMP % Carson Palmer--------------------------1--------------------------------1 Peyton Manning-------------------------2--------------------------------2 Marc Bulger-----------------------------9-------------------------------- 3 Drew Brees------------------------------7--------------------------------4 Brian Griese-----------------------------5--------------------------------5 Daunte Culpepper----------------------15-------------------------------6 Drew Bledsoe----------------------------8--------------------------------7 Kurt Warner-----------------------------11-------------------------------8 Brett Favre-------------------------------6--------------------------------9 Matt Hasselbeck-------------------------10-------------------------------10 Trent Green------------------------------14------------------------------11 Steve McNair----------------------------12--------------------------------12 Anthony Wright--------------------------16-------------------------------13 David Carr-------------------------------20-------------------------------14 Jake Plummer----------------------------4--------------------------------15 Ben Roethlisberger----------------------13-------------------------------16 Tom Brady-------------------------------17-------------------------------17 Jake Delhomme-------------------------19--------------------------------18 Trent Dilfer-------------------------------21-------------------------------19 Donovan McNabb------------------------18--------------------------------20 Chris Simms-----------------------------24--------------------------------21 Byron Leftwich---------------------------22--------------------------------22 Mark Brunell-----------------------------23--------------------------------23 Michael Vick------------------------------3---------------------------------24 Joey Harrington-------------------------26---------------------------------25 Josh McCown----------------------------25---------------------------------26 Aaron Brooks----------------------------27---------------------------------27 Kerry Collins-----------------------------29--------------------------------28 Kyle Orton--------------------------------28--------------------------------29 Eli Manning-------------------------------31---------------------------------30 Gus Frerotte------------------------------32--------------------------------31 J.P. Losman------------------------------30---------------------------------32

Run the Damn Ball/AKC- I would include defensible passes, or tipped INT's, the problem is I don't have access to that information as NFL stats are still fairly limited in depth. This is just an attempt at a more accurate system using every variable I have access to, still a much more accurate system could be made with more detailed stat keeping. MDH- 50% of the normal NFL QB rating is made up of yards per attempt, and Completition %. Now I'm not going to argue that YAC success isn't influenced by accuracy, we all know QB's that deliver a well placed ball will allow receivers to gain additional yards. The problem is once a pass is either caught, or incomplete, the QB has no additional impact on the outcome of the play. With half the standard passer rating being made up of completition% and yards per attempt it leaves short system passers a much easier path to boost the ratings. With what we have available we can't do much to change the higher accuracy numbers, and accuracy still needs to play a roll in any system, but we can still take away the credit a QB receives for having a 5 yard slant turn into a 30 yards play. In terms of measuring performance, a QB that actually completed a 30 yard pass threw the air probably had a much more difficult completition then a 5 yards slant, so I give that QB a small boost in his overal ratings.

At this point the Bills are probably past determining if Holcomb might play. Your first year QB is showing solid improvement and the Bills have pretty much fizzled out of the playoff picture. It's a no brainer at this point.

In his first 4 starts JP's line looked like this 45 of 94 47.8% 433 Yards 1 TD 2 INT Since then JP played from the middle of the second quarter on against KC, and started against SD, and Carolina. So for you math majors that’s about 2 1/2 games. During that time his line looks like this 45 of 81 55.5% 502 Yards 3 TD 2 INT Mid 50's completition% is more then ok for a first year guy, and he's starting to pick his yardage totals up as well. No doubt he is making good progress, I just hope he can have a little red zone success to bring into next season. A multi dimensional QB like JP has the ability to make the red zone a strength if he keeps developing.

Here are some numbers that I thought might surprise, or confirm opinions. Some explanation of the stats is included below, but a full explanation is in the first post. System QB? -Tom Brady had the biggest adjustment to his yardage total when subtracting his YAC yards. His average per attempt with YAC places him 6th in the league, without YAC he ranks 13th. Same Old Drew -Bledsoe ranks 25th in turnover %. Running for his life - JP Losman is second in the NFL in Rushing Attempts per drop back. He runs 12.5% of the time, while Vick runs 21.7% of the time. Big Ben, Deceptively good - One common trend I found in teams that score a lot of points, and don't score a lot of points, is turnover%, and TD%. While big ben might not have the gaudiest statistics he simply dominates in those two categories, ranking 2nd in turnover%, and 1st in TD%. Not exactly Trent Dilfer - Kyle Orton's 10 Fumbles, and 12 INT's rank him dead last in Turnover%. He puts the ball at risk on 6.6% of his drop backs. Eli could be more efficient. - % Positive plays takes into account the number of drop backs a QB has taken, and the number of times a positive result was achieved. Positive results include pass completions, or rushing plays (to register as a rush the play must be positive). Eli Manning registers a positive play only 52% of the time, ranking 31st in the league. Also of note is out of Eli's 7 fumbles, only 1 has been lost, a clear indicator of the breaks that can happen in football.

A poster mentioned in an earlier thread just how out of whack the QB rating system is. I was thinking the same thing and was working on developing a more accurate system. That post got me to finish it off tonight, and I just wanted to see how people feel about the approach. The following is how I arrived at each statistic for my rating, and how it compares to the NFL rating system. My ratings are in bold, and feel free to ask questions as I'm sure I left a few things out. % Positive plays= Rushes+Completitions/Attempts+ Sacks+Rushes NFL passer Rating system= Completitions/Attempts TD%= Rushing TD's + Passing TD's/Attempts+Sacks+Rushes NFL passer Rating System= TD passes/Attempts Yards Per Attempt= (Passing Yards- Yards After Catch)+Rushing Yards/Attempts+Sacks+Rushes NFL passer Rating= Yards/Attempts Turnover%= INT+FUMBLES/Attempts+Sacks+Rushes NFL Passer Rating= INT/Attempts TD's a Game= Rushing TD's+Passing TD's/Games Turnovers a Game= INT's+FUM/ Games Played Running Ability- Rushing Yards/Games To come up with how I weighted each stat I measured how much each stat was correlated with points above the league average and below league average based on 4 years of data. The order of importance went TD%, TURN%, TD/GAME, TURNOVER/GAME, adjusted yards per attempt, % Positive plays, and Running ability. Here is how the 2005 QB's shape up so far. Name----------------RATE Carson Palmer------102.8 Peyton Manning ----102.0 Ben Roethlisberger--97.2 Jake Plummer------- 89.3 Matt Hasselbeck-----84.4 Michael Vick----------82.1 Drew Brees-----------81.9 Byron Leftwich-------80.3 Tom Brady---------- 80.2 Marc Bulger----------79.7 Steve McNair---------78.3 Drew Bledsoe--------76.6 Mark Brunell---------73.6 Trent Green----------72.3 Eli Manning------------72.1 Donovan McNabb----72.0 Brett Favre-----------70.2 Jake Delhomme------70.2 Aaron Brooks---------70.0 Brian Griese----------69.3 Kurt Warner-----------64.9 Kerry Collins----------64.4 Chris Simms----------62.5 Josh McCown----------61.5 David Carr------------60.4 Anthony Wright-------58.6 Trent Dilfer------------57.4 Daunte Culpepper----56.5 Gus Frerotte----------52.9 J.P. Losman-----------51.1 Joey Harrington-------51.1 Kyle Orton-------------45.4

Only because my brilliant mind must be toned down for other people to understand me

It could be a legit excuse, but I just don't think it adds up. I still smoke a little bit, but if I was going to completely quit I certainly wouldn't keep my bongs, and pipes around to temp me. I also wouldn't be very inclined to be hanging around smokers, or allow any pipes in my car that could get me in trouble. I could see why he wouldn't want his kids to find that stuff but wouldn't it be a little more logical to just throw it in the trash? Does the guy think his kids are going to go rummaging threw the garbage to find the pipes they don't even know about? Perhaps I might believe it if he never had a history, but Irvin does, and it's a history filled with doing much heavier stuff the pot. I really could give a crap less if the guy wants to light up from time to time, I just don't believe his story, because it's practically the same one everybody gives if they get caught with something, and the same one I gave my father back in the day. I just doubt most people would actually own up to that, especially a high profile guy who’s sworn to be clean for years.

Henry/Willis I did this comparison the other day, it shows how he compares to Henry's two strong years in 2002 and 2003. The thread also has some additional debate on the subject.