Mikie2times

I did not see who was open, just the weird reverse boot action, twice. Would have liked easier execution, but if he was open, hey....that's all you can do as a coach..

Certainly the 4th down call on offense. But who knows who we put that on. It's interesting how we perceive the dynamic. I don't even think about Rex when that happened and I don't think many here do. I thought Roman as if the HC had no accountability. Sort of weird.

Dear god people. I'm not putting this loss on Rex. The defense performed well. I also expect an uptick in the 2nd half of the season. This thread isn't about why we lost to the Jaguars, it's about if our coach should be a coach. Can he inspire people? Is his style something that can last over a length of time? I don't see it. Again, not about today. Rex will be here next year, so get ready Buffalo, you're going to the playoffs! How will you respond the next time? That's just a small example of how I see this getting old fast unless he figures something out that is not obvious to me. His behavior says I want to be a trend setter but his performance since 2011 is 29-42. I liken the situation in a roundabout way to Chip Kelly. He's basically the polar opposite of Ryan, but like Ryan he wants to different. System offense, willing to cut or trade high value players, total control, bordering on difficult to play for, not proven to be effective. Ryan is system defense, very little control, bordering on being to easy to play for, and certainly for a long time now, not proven to be effective. At which point are the Gurus no longer Gurus and just coaches deviating from the norm and not succeeding in doing so?

Not blaming the loss on Rex, but the season? Sure. He has responsibility. If 100 people do something one way and it works and 1 person does something a completely different way, and it works better, that man is a guru. If it works worse he's an idiot. What category is Rex more likely to fit in taking into account all the behavior he displays, player relationship methods, personal conduct, 3-4 marriage etc. The man looks, talks, acts, and like an idiot. His performance over a very prolonged stretch of time makes him look like an idiot. When does he go from a guru to an idiot when just about everything that exists, subjective or objective appears like he's an idiot?

Agree on some accounts. I do believe in the bell curve way, but Rex also demands to be outside the norm and when you do things differently than everybody else I do think it's fair to evaluate that approach, especially since it's been a very long time since he has accomplished anything. Moving forward for us to fit his system, which comes with the package, we will need to make some roster adjustments. Potentially some major decisions. I'm not OK doing that for a middle of the road coach. Nor do I think it was our expectation we would be getting a middle of the road guy and we could just let our talent take over. But again, on my end, I'm sort of turning this back into a performance discussion which wasn't my goal. Leadership is linked to performance on your bell curve, I just see nothing in this mans history to show me he can excel in that area. It's sort of disheartening as far as thinking about things moving forward.

Again, don't disagree. I will ask you the same thing as Big Cat, what has Rex done to show you that he is a good leader? This thread isn't about why we lost today.

I agree with you. On the other hand, do you think Rex embodies the characteristics of a good leader? If so, what behavior has he displayed or history does he have that woud make you feel this way?

He wasn't run out of town. People felt neutral on him. Some didn't like him and some did. He was considered a micromanage type, which isn't a great leadership style either but better than the friends with everybody model. Marrone tuned into the worst coach in NFL history after he bailed on us, not before. In reality I consider him to be a better HC than Ryan. Which is something you would have been tared and feathered for saying 5 months ago.

I know this probably sounds like another bitter Rex Ryan thread following a loss, but I had these thoughts conflicting with a half full attitude from the start. Is leadership in football that different than leadership in other walks of life? As fans why can't we draw on our own experiences to evaluate leadership? We watch this leadership style and it just seems so outside the norm. Jets fans watched it for years thinking the same thing. Now ask yourself what leaders have you ever known that got the best out of you? Did they let you say anything to anyone? Did they not hold you accountable? Did they say anything they wanted to anyone? Did they try and impose jobs on you that fit company verse your skills? Did they try and be your best friend? Looking at football, give me one other HC that Ryan reminds you of that is also successful? The only one I can think of is his father and Rex is pillow soft compared to Buddy. If Jerry Hughes told Ryan to "F off" in a game, I don't know what would happen. I have a problem with that. (sorry for using you as my hypothetical Jerry, I'm sure you would never swear)

Sound like Ron provided him a free and open environment. I imagine he colored a lot.

Rex enters the scene and says "Get ready Buffalo, you're going to the Playoffs". Sounds good. Can anybody imagine being promoted to a high level position in a company and declaring within 7-8 months you will achieve something the company hasn't achieved in 15 years? Setting those expectations out of the gate, it just doesn't seem like a very mature talking point. What if you fail to reach this unlikely goal? What out do you have? We already know how this will play with Rex, just see the Jets Super Bowl guarantees . "I expect my team to _____ every year and I'm not afraid to say it". Ok Rex, sounds good. Thanks for the conditional statement after the emphatic declaration. Personally, I don't think I would do so well if I set my bosses expectations at the moon, barely got off the ground, and then conditioned it with "well, I like to aim high, my bad". Then we hear this consistent phrase "Players coach". Players can say whatever they want, "I'm not going to put a muzzle on my players". Reports from last year had Jets players discussing Ryan not holding the team accountable. Multiple players backed these reports up. At the time the Bills fan base was still in Rex Ryan dreamland so we didn't even consider the possibility of those comments having merit. Say what you want, not holding people accountable.... In the corporate world that is what you call a friend boss. It's a guy that does more to be liked than he does to bring the best out of his team. In my career I have had one person who maximized my ability that I also liked, but I assure you that person did not care one bit if I in fact liked them, it was just a by product of the respect I had for them. It's a coaches/bosses job to bring accountability, leadership, and the best out of people. Do you think coaches saying anything, players saying anything, and your main leader behaving more like a player than a coach is a functional leadership model? I think players coaches can be successful. Sometimes when people buy in emotionally it can lead to incredible things both in business and in football, but a line needs to be drawn. Dick Vermeil was a players coach, Pete Carroll is a players coach. They both didn't run micromanaged top down military style teams, but they both also represented a consistent image of what leadership is. The players they had bought in emotionally. The emotion they put out was real. Rex and his words, they just don't feel like they're sincere. It reminds me of a guy that wouldn't stop talking about how he loves Sabres hockey and wants to buy a snow plow 5 minutes after moving so he can fit in and make people feel like he is one of them. Oh ya, that's right, Rex also wants to be our friend. What I know of Rex Ryan. He could be a great coordinator, he could be a great TV analyst, but he should not be in a leadership position. Grandiose expectations go undelivered, accountability problems, need to be liked by all, no ability to learn from mistakes in behavior, and a scheme he is married to more than the players who play in it. I feel as strongly about knowing Ryan is not NFL HC material as any HC we have had since the playoff drought. He has been living off his coordinator days with extreme talent and the two AFC Championship runs.

Jets led by Rex Ryans Defense defeat New England

2 of our non starters scored TD's, but yes, the actual list is long. Nobody is disputing that. Still doesn't feel like any of the stink is coming off this one.

Pete I have enjoyed your posts and perspective for many years and I think all of us know that this version of the Bills has had a pretty brutal stretch of injuries. That the bye week will likely improve communication and allow us to get healthy. Odds are we will be a much better team over the final 9 games. The problem is, even with all this, to make the playoffs we likely have to win 7 of the 9 remaining games. Even with all of the variables discussed, that is a very unlikely proposition. Which now takes the drought to the point in which people who can legally drive have never watched this team in the playoffs. For those of us who can drive, we take a massive chunk out of each Sunday. For most adults, time is not something we have in abundance. This is a choice that we make as fans, to devote the time each Sunday to being a fan. It just get's old and tiring and has been going on for far too long. Even in not jumping off the cliff, I just don't see much reason to feel like the glass is half full right now.

1. I feel sick. This team is destined to be on the 8-8 to 9-7 path, this will be the game we look at in December as the “what if” game. 2. The PI call was absurd; if I’m a fan I’m angry, if I’m a coach I’m angry the refs had the ability to make that decision. We can say that call cost us the game, it should have never come to that. 3. Looking at points scored in this game is pointless. The defense played well. They seemed to be communicating better. Things seemed simplified. I think Rex did well as far as adjustments. 4. I think the viewpoint between Taylor and Manuel prior to Cincinnati was either a wash or close to it. No question Taylor wins this game and he is way ahead of Manuel as far as the total package he brings. 5. McCoy is elite. He was worth the trade. I’m not even talking about the fumble. RB’s will fumble at times. That was an incredible run and the high impact collision came as he was falling down backwards while protecting the ball. 6. Injuries are becoming too much to handle. Single high coverage all game. Easley finally beat it. No way would Jacks play us like that if Sammy was on the field. I thought our complimentary WR’s did well today all things considered. 7. Dareus has been very disappointing this year. You can put some of that on Rex but I’m just not seeing hustle from his game. Seems like so many players get paid and just check out. 8. Whaley made a very bad decision on “Meh”. “Meh” wins this game. Two HC’s indicated based on actions they didn’t feel comfortable with EJ. If your goal is the playoffs you do not make that trade. 9. Richie has been the most consistent high level addition this team has added 10. Roman vomited on himself on both opposite hand bootlegs. That is such a hard throw to make. Literally stunned we would force our QB to square hips and cross body throw on a game deciding play 11. I expect this team will look night and day out of the bye. Problem is it’s likely too late. 12. Out of all the years of the playoff drought this is shaping up to be among the more disheartening. You see the talent. It’s been either injured or underutilized. This should be a playoff team. I don’t feel like that is based on hope, but based on talent. Just a sickening feeling. 13. EJ is done. After this season I’m not sure if he can hold a backup job. Within this season, I really don’t feel like we have a viable back up anymore. Scary with a guy like Taylor. We did have a vet back up at one point. I like a lot of the moves Whaley has made, but this was a massive error and could cost him his job.

I find it unlikely that Rex would turn over the keys to his car, let it crash, and keep letting it crash over multiple seasons when his entire reputation is based on defense. I do not know for sure, nor do I even know what the definition of ownership is for a defense. It's likely Thurman could call plays, Rex has veto power. Rex is likely heavily involved in game plan and conceptual design. If Thurman calls plays is the defense now his? Does BB not run the Patriots defense?

I staff a call center and have to factor in vacation, sick days, and FMLA into staffing models. I almost think the Bills should start taking that approach at the WR spot. Let's see, we average losing 50% of projected labor annually. So if we want 5 WR and full productivity we need 10 WR over the entire year.

Agreed, this is Rex's defense. Thurman has been known as a great technique coach. I would say he's more likely responsible for the emergence of Darby than the problems on defense.

Just look at how even the Bengals came over to check on him. The guys one of the most respected players in the NFL. Class act. I remember posting on here how impressive he was in his first preseason game. That said, I didn't think in a million years he would make this type of career out of it.

Sums up how I go about things as well.

After criticizing some of his off-season behavior while simultaneously being impressed by the game tape, I have to say welcome McCoy! One of the very few bright spots from today. Anybody of the mindset that a RB still can't bring elite value didn't watch McCoy today. His stats didn't light up the screen, but watching him, it was clear his talent exceeds that of most the NFL RB's we see each week. Incredible burst, good forward lean, stop and start with minimal loss of speed, and the guy can cut on a dime. Unique talent.

I agree completely. Brady in particular. The advantage he has playing in the same system as long as he has, it today's NFL that has to be extreme. Obviously the only way to earn that advantage is by playing great year after year. I don't expect it will end anytime soon either. The guy never gets hit and still has a very live arm. He will play into his 40's. I want to puke for saying this as it's the first time, but he plays until he's 40 and holds a reasonable pace, I don't know how he isn't the GOAT.

I don't have any issues with this, in fact I agree completely that this team's personal is not right for the current system. That said, for cap reasons, the time to make a push was now. They went all in. So if you hired a guy as your HC I wouldn't think the Bills would be expecting a makeover on the same defense that was young and finished 2nd in DVOA last year.

I actually don't think I would be stunned if Ryan alters his philosophy at this point. In fact, I really don't see how it could go another way and it's also easy to understand how it went the way it did. It's pretty natural for all of us in just business to want to make a unique mark, let alone football. The best know not to reinvent the wheel but people can make mistakes in this regard. Rex has a defensive style he's branded by and it's the 3-4 and it's extravagant blitz concepts. It very well could be one of the best defenses in the world, but it's just not right for us right now. I think Rex can live with the offense being the death of him as he did in NY, but not the defense. The defense has been reasonably healthy and added Darby. The visuals look worse than the stats. This team just doesn't look organized and is putting players in positions they don't excel at. Pressure from the fans and media is being applied to both the players and Rex. The players will talk openly. Rex needs to fix this to preserve his image and I think he can let go of his brand if that is what's at stake.