Mikie2times

I did a couple things yesterday that I wouldn't usually do, namely bet a team that a lot of people are betting, and bet against the Bills. Instead of having one of the truly bad beats of all time work against me, I was handed a miracle. I had a dime play on the Chargers. After the score that put them up ten Buffalo had no time outs, so no score on that drive equals a SD cover. JP throws the pick, and it's locked up. That is until SD fumbles the ball and Buffalo recovers. At that very moment I no longer felt comfy with my bet and went to hedge it on matchbook.com (online live betting exchange). I look on the site and some guy must have posted a bet without seeing that SD fumbled the INT. The odds for a Bills cover that he gave were +1700! On matchbook you can only bet what a person is willing to bet on the opposing team. So I was limited to betting only 200$ at those odds, but that's still a 3400$ payout. AS you all know we end up getting the score, and the back door cover. I end up winning 2 1/2 times what I would have won had SD covered to begin with. Can you imagine how the guy that didn't see SD fumble feels? He was risking $3400 to win $200 on SD, and lost .

I think your underestimating the rivalry. Ohio State truly hates Michigan, and the feeling is mutual. They don't want to play them again because they would never wish Michigan success. It goes past the schools. I've lived in both states, and there is a genuine dislike for the opposing state in both places.

Always gotta pick on the little guy

All it means is that he's capable of making some plays others can't. In no way does it mean he will be good. None of this debate of his natural skill means he will be good.

How many QB's run a 4.65, that can throw as hard as Losman, who aren't complete disasters when they stay in the pocket? Examples please. Sure we can get into the freaks like Vick but those guys have zero chance at ever staying in the pocket. It's a bold sounding statement because JP’s not the best player right now, but the statement doesn't refer to how he plays, just what he was born with.

I don't know, I mean we could sit here and debate forever because we really have no way to measure it. I see Young as a more gifted runner, but I imagine the speed is very comparable. Both are probably in the low 4.6 range. The Arm strength is no comparison in JP's favor.

I would say he does if you don't include recognition, which I don't think you can because he's still so raw. I still don't see him ever approaching Youngs recognition level, but in terms of arm strength and athleticism I would rate JP higher then Young.

You still in Toledo?

Never mind, I saw your other post, I must have took your post out of context. Doing thirty things at once (and I do need to stop being defensive).

I always enjoy when somebody tries to disprove your entire point by criticizing one part of your argument. Even better is when they do it with providing nothing to the discussion. You can spit out statistics all day, it doesn't make my points any less valid because they're not based completely on statistics.

Since his stats look bad Elway wasn't good enough early on? Is that what you’re trying to get at AD? He led countless comebacks, and made plays. He also made some mistakes. That's what happens when you don't have to read defenses in college. These athletic QB's spend half the time outside the pocket in college, and it takes them longer to develop in the pros. Nobody’s saying he will become Elway. But to deny the recent progression, and historical proof that he's can still be a franchise QB, well it's just inaccurate.

What "facts" might those be? By all means find my a guy that compares more to JP, not just stats.

After watching our defensive line they say they look very excited

He nearly did it on the game winning pass to Roscoe

If your being serious Flutie was incapable of being a pocket passer.

I guarantee his detractors will completely reroute this thread to arguing against JP becoming Elway. Not the most difficult thing to do considering Elway is one of the best of all time. The point is here are two guys, nearly the same size, same talent, similar personalities, developing at the same rate. We should not be concerned in anyway with the progress on one John Paul Josman.

A recent post got me thinking about JP. How rare is it to have a guy with his athletic ability, who can also be a pocket passer. Few QB’s in NFL history come to mind. After these last two weeks one guy I started thinking about was John Elway. I wouldn’t categorize Elway as a pocket QB, but he could be a threat from the pocket like JP can. He was also about the same speed as JP coming out of Stanford. I did some research and compared Elway's first 25 starts with JP’s first 19 starts. I averaged it out so we could have comparable numbers to work with. They look nearly identical. Elway took a long time to develop, but I don't think Denver regrets sticking with him. JP-------------------Elway 27.26 ATT--------25.56 ATT 16.68 COM-------13.48 COM 57.5%--------------52.7% 176 Yards---------170 Yards .95 TD--------------1 TD .84 INT-------------1.2 INT

I'm not going to say he lacks in mental ability just yet. It takes awhile to read NFL defenses. He also had a bit of the Mike Vick syndrome at Tulane. He could fall back on his athletic skills, instead of being forced to read defenses, so that adds time. I recall a telling quote in which he looked back at his first game against Houston. He said he felt unbelievable that he made it as a NFL QB after the 1st quarter. Something to the effect of I can already do this, I belong here. He then went on to say how far off base those thoughts ended up being, and how difficult it's been. But now he’s finally starting to get comfortable. I think we can all see it recently so I’m encouraged about his progress moving forward. As for his skill level I completely agree. I mean how many QB's are as fast as JP, but also capable of being pocket passers. Throw in his size and arm strength and you nearly have a prototype QB. Few in the history of this game have had the natural talent Losman has at QB. Elway early in his career would probably be the most comparable guy I can think of. Coincidentally they share the same number. I hope it’s no coincidence JP's starting to have a penchant for comebacks. Elway also didn’t experience his best years until later in his career.

I see Vick being able to help Atlanta win down the road, I just don't think it's working in the current set up. For starters he needs to carry the ball against his chest instead of running around with it extended in one hand. I can't fathom how Mora hasn't made any progress in getting Vick to protect the ball. Next if I'm Atlanta I need to abandon all normal NFL thinking. The reason being I have a player who is unlike any other QB to have played this game. Out of the Shotgun, or booting from under center Vick can pick up huge chunks of yardage on the ground. He just struggles when he drops back in the pocket. Decades of athletic dominance let him get by without reading defenses, and he won't be able to learn now. I say go to the two headed QB system. Have Schwaub handle the pocket stuff, and obvious passing situations. Then you could have Vick run some sort of single wing variation with some boots on run/pass downs. You could even put them in the same backfield. How could the secondary commit to the run on a toss sweep to Vick? It sounds crazy, but you would get the best of both players, and it would put a ton of pressure on defensive coordinators to prepare for. Obviously I don't think this would ever happen, or that Vick is humble enough to go along with it. I just see it being the best winning formula for who Atlanta has.

Juice, you pay between 3%-10% for a winning bet, or more. Edit: Say I take Buffalo -3 at -110 odds. I bet 100$, I would win 90$. The -110 after the line is the juice.

If they respect us anymore they would get killed with one sided action. As it is I guarantee the Chargers will be one of the most heavily bet teams this week.

I was one of the first to say Willis isn't as good as he's made out to be. I said that at the start of the 2005 season. Looking back I reacted to what the perception of Willis was back then, both around here and in the media. IE Willis is one of the best RB's in football. I always disagreed grading him that high, so I took the opposite stance on the debate. Now the perception of Willis around here is that he's expendable, that he isn't a difference maker. Some have gone as far to say A-Train would be just as good. To me that logic is just as flawed rating Willis among the best in football. Please don't show me statistics of A-Train facing the Colts and Texans run defense and compare them to what Willis has faced. Not only is the competition difference vast but the sample is a fraction of the size. Willis may not be a top 5 RB in this league, but he is a difference maker. You saw it yesterday on two scores A-Train would not have made. You will continue seeing it whenever we have to turn to our back ups. In the context of the elite RB's Willis can't carry a game on his shoulders, few can. But he still makes us better off then half the league. Being such we should embrace him as we have other good/great Bills over the years. The unique passion of Bills fans is one of the biggest things we have going for us. Maybe if we try and support players like we used to we can make players want to stay here.

I'm only playing ATL tomorrow -2.5 (bought .5 point). I still really like Pittsburgh, but I'm going to lay off. I see the effort, and if they believe they can make the playoffs they can be dangerous. If they lose to Baltimore fade them the rest of the way.. The Oakland game would have only been a play at +14, it's seem to be holding at +13. I agree about MS distain for Oakland. It could be a blow out, but you always risk that in these type of matchups. AS for CHI-NE I don't like the extra .5 NE's giving, and Grossman is so unpredictable. I could see NE covering, but the time to play them is after 1 or 2 losses. Otherwise they seem to fall back to the NE is winning the Super Bowl type lines (possible fade scenario next week).

Interesting Fezmid. It helps little for my current situation, but I expect to be in apartments at least two more years. This is some good info.