Mikie2times

That's fine dude. It's funny. I started a thread about midway through last season. I brought up that Burrow was probably just as good as Josh and that the Bengals were a real threat. Only to be treated as I have been in this thread. I brought it up because I like balance in thought and nobody gave Burrow the time of day which seemed homerish to say the least. The further I diverge in thought from the masses, the more inclined I am to fight them. I care a lot more about truth than some rule about how I should act as a Bills fan. I love Josh, this team, and everything to do with Buffalo. But I'm not going to be a homer or fail to discuss what I'm seeing because it's not popular. If by your standard that makes me a bad contributor so be it. I guess only good contributors see things as you see them and they fall in line in feeling as everybody else feels. We have plenty of very smart people here. I'm not the only one who see's what I'm discussing. But fighting the 20 to 1 ratio of posts you get when you just try and say Josh isn't perfect is worthless to most.

I'm sorry, I was confused trying to understand how you can lose something that you're now saying never existed. So are you saying that "adjustments"? Can you elaborate on what those adjustments were? From what I could see, they involved not letting Josh break contain and improvise, not rushing him recklessly, and blitzing much less (which is pretty clear in the data). Basically, they're making him do what I'm saying he isn't the best at. Which is is one, two, three, throw. Lets also not pretend that RB even factored into this. Cook was parked underneath for a check down a disturbing amount of times last year. The only time Josh has engaged the check down from the RB position was the end of 2021 and look at what it did for him. I can pick any tape from last year. Very few of his throws are made at the top of his drop. It only happens in rhythm on play action or if his first or second read is locked in while he drops back. If he doesn't know 100% where he is going at the top of his drop he will start patting it and then it has to be a clear stair it down throw. If the rush disrupts his timing he will not look at the check down or trust shorter routes until after they have developed. Past seasons he would run or roll out in any of the above scenarios. That's how he essentially converted all these "I'm not sure" moments into big wins. He can't do that anymore and its taking the rhythm out of the offense by forcing 3rd and long which did not go well last year. 3rd and long last year: Allen was 27 of 64, 522 Yards Burrow was 54 of 83, 654 yards Mahomes was 40 of 63, 837 yards As far as completion % at least align it to when they played. It does matter. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm Josh is actually below the league average for his time. Which doesn't matter to me, you brought it up in poor context. Josh is one of the most talented QB's to ever play the game. He is still plenty capable at the position while having the issues I describe. If we want to have Super Bowl aspirations he either needs to eliminate what I'm describing which he largely did at the end of 2021 or we need more talent. This team is not good enough at blocking or tackling to win a Super Bowl without a QB who is elite at reading defenses... Brady was the best ever, Manning, and Brees were both pretty close. All three have less talent than Josh.

This is the problem with most Bills fans and Josh. I'm not blaming Allen. His inability to get plays off on time contributes to areas we already suck in, like pass protection. The problem is multi faceted. It's just everybody on here gives Allen a break on his contributions. Look at minute 1:41 below. Classic example of what I'm describing. J Josh hits the top of his drop. He has the out route. He is looking at the out route. He pauses. Dawkins is already beat horribly, but again, if he just takes the damn out it doesn't matter. Instead he super man's his way to a completion. Bills fans celebrate his greatness. Problem is he had the out the whole time. A great play would be not having to make a great play. If he has to keep making great plays in that spot he will make great mistakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrJiPBXQf10&t=103s As for your theory. Who knows. I have watched every play for over 20 years. Plenty of elite QB's lose talent and keep on being elite. So I'm not inclined to put the emphasis on JUST the WR's or OLINE, as so many here do. Josh is 50% of the issue. Most people can't see it because he creates 90% of the solutions. It is just a dumb preseason game, but what happened in the play above is just an extension of last years Josh.

@CincyBillsFan I mean, given we went a whole year in 2022 hearing why we won't attempt short throws, it's eye opening that you just expect this will change in 2023. Will it be Dorsey that we will blame? Josh's elbow? What will be the reason we can't hit a quick slant this year? @GoBills808 Late in 2021, I presume largely based on a offensive coordinator that designed it to be that way, I saw Josh decimating teams with his reads. The ball was out and out quick. Didn't happen last year. It also just so happens last year was the first year teams stopped allowing Josh the sidelines to do whatever he wanted. Then as the season progressed, they stopped rushing him. Now he has an OC who I presume isn't taking such an emphasis on routes and motion that shows coverages. Josh isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop. He's double clutching. The off spring of Ray Charles could see it...it's nearly every pass. But again, how dare I as part of Bills fandom, blame Josh for even contributing to a minor issue. He is incapable of fault. All we can admit out loud is that sometimes he makes the "silly" mistake and even when that happens, it's really just because he's passionate. It's also not a "bad" mistake. It's "silly". Like a child, because Josh has a youthful exuberance.

Yup.....watched the whole game How many throws did he make on time at the top of his drop? The 35 yard throw to Gabe, he was on his 2nd or third clutch. Saw it and ripped it. I don't need proof if he sees a guy open, that he can deliver it. I need proof that he doesn't see a guy, he see's a coverage, he can get the ball out on time and in rhythm.

I agree with all of this. Without Josh we are nowhere. So I think from that perspective you can't really find fault in anything he does. As you said, he is either the best we have ever had or in a debate for that title. Having said this, the bar is elevated to a Super Bowl. So as I watch Josh, I watch Josh in the context of a Super Bowl winning QB. In doing so you have the obvious Favre like, what the hell just happened moments. But those don't concern me as much as top of drop, pat, pat, run. That's a QB not seeing as clear as you would like. Which then makes me wonder, did he ever see the field as clear as it appeared? His arm is so good, he can see a guy open and still rip it in. Almost nobody can do that. He made such a massive amount of plays the last few years in scrambling. Which he doesn't get anymore. Teams are not sending uncontrolled rushes at him. Which allowed the red sea to part in front of him giving him the scramble whenever he couldn't make a read. They also aren't letting him get outside contain which again, is a path he took when he couldn't make a read. It gave him the whole field in front of him, clear visibility. It is becoming pretty obvious teams are going to make Josh win from the pocket as a normal QB. That is the game plan. It was happening just the same last year.

Any criticism of Josh, even if it's just to say he contributes to an issue, can't be right to those on this forum. It can never be even partly on Josh. Josh is incapable of doing anything wrong. It has to be the WR's not being able to get open. The line not being able to block. The coach not being able to draw up plays. It can't just be Josh hitting the top of his drop, double, triple clutching. Having no idea where to go with the ball. Then taking off. Something we see literally non stop with him mixed in with the rest of the crap play out of our various units.

It doesn't look like Josh is decisive in knowing where he wants to go with the ball. Almost like he has to see it first. The line didn't exactly help but Josh plays a role. I would be less concerned if it wasn't similar to how he looked a lot of last year. Kincaid, as Einstein has said a few times, is great with leverage. It will be interesting to see what the team looks like week 1. I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out, but I also don't think it's completely nothing to see either. We were very bad in nearly every area and created more questions marks in key areas like the OL and defense.

It's pretty obvious we have the better brother. The Jets couldn't even beat Arizona. Allen for MVP. 2nd place more likely Kincaid than Rodgers. The only real team in New York wins. Jets fans are ugly. (My Bills fan impression of this thread) Side note, I do think the Jets are hyper over rated. Some of these posts just made me chuckle.

Good thing this isn't Basketball.

I thought he was the most likely bust of any QB in the draft. Watching him as a passer at Florida was hard. He can't throw from the pocket. His accuracy is poor. Decision making is poor. Having said this, I never thought much of Lamar in the NFL and still don't. To a much lesser degree Hurts. These are all guys in college that really depended on running, athleticism, and broken plays. Josh even depended on this cocktail to varying degrees in his career. Perhaps the game is changing to where some of these super athletic QB's can have success without being the best at reading defenses and hanging in the pocket. The game wasn't like that for the last 20+ years. That style was the "bust" style for all but a couple. I think Hurts, like Allen, is actually developing in a much more traditional way and I have changed my mind on him. Lamar not so much. I will leave the bust label on Richardson for now.

Lets say we have a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years. Has 7 consecutive losing seasons. Finished last in the division 6 out of 7 years including 3 straight. They end up signing a 39 year old QB who did not make the playoffs his previous season. Who has not made a Super Bowl in 12 years. Now you're free to talk about the roster. How Aaron Rogers is a former MVP. But if the Jets are as good as people think it would fall much more in the area of unlikely than if they aren't. Teams are not built on paper. You want free money? Take the Bills and the points Week 1

https://www.sportscasting.com/whats-with-the-green-dots-on-nfl-helmets-and-how-many-players-have-them/ Perhaps two players can have the dot?

I think we will see a Dodson on run downs and Rupp on passing downs. Rupp played some Linebacker for the Rams already. He was a piece that they moved around. The Bills are going to tackle this by committee. https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2023/1/24/23569606/los-angeles-rams-free-agents-taylor-rapp-linebacker-move

Well, it's a game or sport to us. It's a business or company to them. They don't like certain offenses. Domestic violence against women and gambling. Avoid those things and you should be good.

Fitting Marv has lived so long, he was arguably the best in NFL history in teaching resilience.

I wonder if if a positional strike has any possibility.

Good post OP. I’m curious why Brown declined so much last year. I understand he had some injury issues. Most here have basically written him off. But as I recall in his rookie year, he was the most physical lineman we had. Showed a mean streak and wanted to punish defenders. I had huge hopes for him. If a big driver last year was health, parlay that with never having decent guard play next to him, another year of development. If the first two resolve themselves, he could be a guy that surprises a lot of people this year.

I liked him at Arizona State. I think Beane is about the best I have seen at always trying to upgrade his back ups.

Agree, history doesn't consider circumstance just outcomes

https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-joe-burrow-reportedly-diagnosed-with-strained-calf-after-being-carted-off-field-201140371.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKmWtHKtTNlD0G3nIq8TpGFvP6c2t4AE48SIcOvBFzvPHQTk--nnSb2rhCzKtWWEEI8r5FeIQMdpMVeLzlrPg0Q3CDzauiX368wT7a0cDKvNquAKKdJ9m6JL1WbOm_Jeg1SO3FNVEBo4qWr-7xMsCD74SvhWrEU4dwXLVpbZ1bTk

Does the conference even matter? I understand how dominant the SEC is but look at the players Mahomes=> Big 12 Allen=> Mountain West Burrow=> Big 10 to SEC Lawrence=> ACC Hurts=> Big 12 to SEC Herbert=> Pac 12 Jackson=> ACC If the SEC didn't pull in a couple Big 10 and Big12 transfers, they would be pulling a goose egg as far as NFL relevant QB's. Well, Prescott was all Miss. St. but you get the point. Conference seems to matter very little.

I thought they moved forward with the ban, but it appears not....silly in my opinion. You can get 2-3 yards every time with that play. Probably in the spirit of the game given the games roots, but not the modern version. Not in the spirit of the game IMO.

yup