Mikie2times

Kap also didnt have the stat numbers that TT has.....if your basing everything on Kap when it comes to TT.........I dont think that is a good comparison. And even if you did that lets keep in mind that offense went to the Super Bowl. COMP-243, ATT 416, COMP% 58.4%, YARDS 3197, TD 21, INT 8, RUSH YDS 524, RUSH TD 4 COMP-242, ATT 380, COMP% 63.7%, YARDS 3035, TD 20, INT 6, RUSH YDS 568, RUSH TD 4 Look's pretty similar to me. I also agree that Taylor can get us to the Super Bowl with an elite defense which is why I wanted him to start last year. I said as much from the moment we signed him. I just don't want to pay him 15 million+. Romans offense specializes in making QB's efficiency gods. We sink franchise money into Taylor and he busts in a normal system, what happens then? What I'm saying is exactly what happened to SF and one of ten million reasons that franchise so jacked up. I really dont think your giving credit to the NFL defenses he is facing.....if he truly was so simple minded dont you think opposing defenses would take that away from him? Its chess out there not checkers. The guy wears a fricken shaded visor you have no idea where his eyes are even going. And a LOT of Tyrod's big plays ARE off breakdowns. What are you watching? His eyes are going where his head is pointing, that would be my guess. I don't think he is simple minded either, he has a lot of guts and seems to have above average intelligence. Defenses gave him most the short stuff. They didn't try and take it away. No point, it wasn't hurting them. That's how he built his comp%, he is not as accurate as the stats indicate. He built his inflated YPA by being a very good deep ball thrower and yes, to your point, his ability to do some great things with broken plays. None of these characteristics in modern football have been cornerstones of guys you pay 15 million+ to at the QB position. Some guys have those traits, Wilson/Young for example, but what I'm looking for is signs that he can develop into a franchise QB. I never saw those. Those signs, for me, are throwing covered receivers open prior to the break. Hitting small windows in the intermediate passing game, specifically over the middle. Moving off reads and delivering the ball with timing and being decisive. I saw none of that in his game. I saw a very athletic guy with a heck of a deep ball partnered with Trent Edwards. That is not somebody I want us breaking the bank for. Im sorry Kazoo....I have no idea of what the point here is.....are you saying that he is holding onto the ball and running after he gets away? You do realize that is one of the things that makes him dangerous.......he is the fastest QB in the league. I'm saying he is indecisive, holds the ball too long, and often faces unnecessary pressure that he would not have to face had he delivered the ball with timing. What I'm saying is not an opinion, he led the league by a comfortable margin in how long it takes for him to gt rid of the ball. Which I imagine you will say is a result of his scramblin Fran ways, but the reality is those plays just make up a fraction of the data.

Limiting turnovers is much easier when you never are asked to throw the ball in tight windows. Kap limited turnovers in Romans offense. Same things..... I can tell what progressions he's going threw because many of the plays he's running are one read throws. Timing routes are very easy to see, you don't need to be in a huddle to see a timing route. You also don't need to be in a huddle to see what happens when the first guy he stairs at is covered. What happens is ball pat, ball pat, ball pat, sack/run/ maybe something ok if he can break lose....He doesn't know what to do when the designed play isn't there. He does avoid sacks, he's one of the most elusive QB's I've ever seen, but many of those avoided sacks are happening 6+ seconds after the snap (see above) I also agree he does avoid big hits and does a good job doing it. Which makes it even scarier when you think about how many times he got crushed last year.

Ok, well that's dumb, but I think Taylor could net a first. If that is the case, I don't think it's dumb.

Surprised at the slaughtering the OP is taking. Taylor was asked to hit timing routes, throw the deep ball, limit turnovers, and then he added his own splash of improve. He performed very well statistically and at times he did the same with the eye test within this scheme. He was never asked to throw to win, take chances, make multiple progressions. He never showed he could hit anything he wasn't staring at, consistently throw from the pocket, avoid sacks, sometimes he took as much as 7-8 seconds to just find something he could see. His height is an issue and so is his propensity to take hits. This is like the opposite drama of Rex. The fan base went from no to a resounding yes with TT. This time last year very few people thought he could start, now people would refuse to trade him for a first rounder when he's in a contract year at peak value?

2014 Kaep,while highly ridiculed, still had a + year for QB's on the stat side while playing hurt. But you're right, his play did regress for some of the reasons mentioned. I think consensus opinion is Tyrod should improve based on experience. What's lost is that experience also pits him against the increased knowledge defenses have in playing him. DC's will do the same thing with Taylor in 16 as Kaep got in 14. Taylors athleticism is elite, so that's not easy, but I really do think his height hurts him. He doesn't find windows of vision, he tries longer to find wide open vision. Everything gets delayed, play breaks down, sometimes good things happen, but it's inconsistent. On timing routes/first reads, deep balls, he has timing and accuracy. He also seems to care about the mental part. So hopefully he avoids Kaeps progression. He's an easy guy to root for and I really hope he proves my concerns wrong.

Lot of haters toward Parker over his career. All that tells me is he was really damn good at what he did. We only knew of him professionally and knew very little outside of that. Sounds like a very successful business man and hopefully just as successful outside of work. 60 is too young. I hope his family can find peace in time.

For sure, it's a money thing for me. I would like to accentuate the first portion of the first post a bit more. I really like Taylor. It doesn't sound like this type of thread would be started by somebody who really likes Taylor. I've liked him since day one and always thought he would start. I also think he has the talent to lead a talented team into the playoffs and beyond. Good guy, fun to watch, seems like a winner. What I worry about is a massive investment in him if we don't see that next step. A lot of people feel 2015 numbers in 2016 could equal 15 million or more. I expect 2016 production to be very similar. Maybe something more in the 20 TD/10 INT range, but still good. It will be what I see with my eyes that will tell me if he is worth the money. Roman can make QB's stat gods. Taylor is the guy right now and I'm fine with him being the guy, happy, unless that price tag goes way up with the same questions we currently have.

Obviously you can't take anything I'm saying past conjecture. What's not conjecture is Kubiak wants Kaep right now. So that stamp of confidence doesn't do a lot for me.

Difference in YPA is Taylor being able to throw a predetermined route with more accuracy. It's no small difference, it is part of the game. Taylors ability to be a threat in the deep passing game is certainly a big part of his game. I just don't see any of that YPA coming from the sources I would like. His COMP % and YPA is established on timing routes and deep balls which he throws a very high % of his plays. Again, sort the box I've described that Roman created for him. His first year without Roman, he was forced to operate as something other than a system QB. This is my contention. Take Roman away, strip the system, make Tyrod play in a standard offense, it will get ugly. Obviously can't disagree with a lack of talent last year for Kaep but I don't see his future getting much better regardless of where he goes.

I was part of the Tyrod will start when we signed him group. I like watching him play. In this system he can be very efficient. Having said all this, like many have discussed, if he has the same season in 2016 as he did in 2015, he could exceed 15 million a year. Please compare the two stat lines..... COMP-243, ATT 416, COMP% 58.4%, YARDS 3197, TD 21, INT 8, RUSH YDS 524, RUSH TD 4 COMP-242, ATT 380, COMP% 63.7%, YARDS 3035, TD 20, INT 6, RUSH YDS 568, RUSH TD 4 One of those is Tyrod and the other is Kaep's first season as a full time starter, virtually indistinguishable of each other. As players, not the same. Kaep more physical talent, Taylor more mental talent. Comparing Taylor Kaep might upset some, but the reality is this type of production is plenty out of the position. SF made multiple deep runs with him and Roman at the helm. Prior to the season I said I hope Taylor can give us Kaep like production and that's what he did. At the same time, I can't imagine any Bills fan being happy about paying Kaep over 15 million dollars. We probably have the most QB friendly OC in the league right now. Paying a system QB franchise money would be a death blow. I'll stay open minded but I just feel Taylor is playing in a box and that works, but if he was asked to step outside it he would struggle mightily.

Mr. Jauronimo, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Norman deserves top 5 corner money as does Gilmore for those that are comparing the two. Both are young and in the top 5, at the least, top 10 at what they do. Funny how Norman instantly has the feel that he will get a bigger deal than Gilmore. That's what being a "pro" gets you nowadays.

Hard to disagree but can't be applied across the board. Seattle is the best defense of 2010's and registers in a top 10 discussion all time when looking at defensive performance over a couple years when factoring in scoring/yard differences in eras. One thing Seattle defenders discuss across the board is just how straight forward the scheme is. I thought that was illustrated well in the Super Bowl against the Pats. They play man on just about everything and want to force teams to drive 3-4 yards downfield per play with no big plays and emphasis punishing eliminating YAC and hitting WR's. They had a pretty good degree of success against Brady even in allowing 300 yards passing. You could just see how much it took to beat them in that game with one of the games all time best QB's forced to execute on 50 pass attempts as Seattle defenders just pummeled New England's WR's all game. We also saw Buffalo do it's thing with Schwartz in a different scheme than Seattle but similar in it's approach to players not thinking. On the flip side you have the Broncos defense this year. Wade might not run something as complex as Rex but his defense isn't exactly run of mill. Personally, that Denver defense is the kind I love seeing with pressure being it's hallmark. Common theme in all situations is good players in good scheme fits. Seattle has a roster which is very unique as far as how physical it's DB's are. Denver had great edge rushing LB's, outstanding corners. Just a great all around defense. We still have a very good DL, bordering on great if Kyle returns to form. Marcell and Kyle should be at DE, and we need to add a true NT. Hughes is a very solid edge guy who should be a primary rusher, but can drop. We have outstanding corners which is mandatory.I think Lawson is a wild card. Very talented? No, but one thing a Rex defense can do when it clicks is make average players look very talented, specifically at LB. Lawson was moving around a lot at the end of the year and it seemed to work. He played a lot of MLB against the Jets. We can have a good scheme fit with this defense and this roster in 2016 with a couple additions, players buying in, and simplification.

I just watched the 30 for 30 on the 85 Bears. Found it interesting that the Bears defense came to Buddy a couple years prior to the 85 season and asked him to shrink the playbook. Most players commented that they knew this wasn't what Buddy wanted, but the next day they came to practice the playbook was more than cut in half. It becomes very interesting to now see Rex facing a what would appear to be a similar situation his father did. In his dads situation the players unified and requested that the playbook be reduced with the expectations that it would allow them to play faster and improve as a team. The defense was united and wrote a letter to Buddy and Buddy was smart enough to listen. I don't know if a modern NFL team has the stones or ability to be unified like teams did of that era. I wouldn't expect Bills players to ask Rex to change, it will come more in the form of what we have already seen. Player complaints in the media, etc. His father was smart enough to listen to his players and it eventually led to the greatest defensive season in NFL history. It gives me hope for next season that Rex has seen what simplification can provide. Perhaps we just didn't see it on a wide scale level last year as we already found ourselves too invested in the initial strategy.

Rex has never required elite talent outside of the DB's which we have. I feel as if we have reasons to think Rex has lost it, I also feel like we have reasons to give him the benefit of the doubt. 2015 was clearly a dreadful performance with very few players buying in, confusion, and poor execution. If those things don't happen in 2016, even with less talent than 2015, yes, the defense can have a massive turnaround. I don't think it's even fair to say we will have less talent in 2016 either. We lost Mario who brought little to the team in 2015. Our DB play which was already strong should get even better. Kyle should be back, if not, he didn't play most of 2015 anyway. The LB's should absolutely play better as I'm certain we will look to upgrade that position. Dooming 2016 before it happens is just as stupid as anointing Rex in 2015 before it happened.

It is silly to think the Pegulas, Russ, Whaley, or anybody at One Bills Drive ever thought Rex/Schwartz could work. The statements made about retaining Schwartz was PR mumbo, nothing more. If it wasn't I have larger concerns about our front office and it's ability to judge situations and understand the game. Why the delay? People prioritize tasks in new roles. Letting go a coach was not a priority. It was something he had to deal with and when he had some time after his initial tasks that's exactly what he did. Some guys would make the wheel square if for no other reason just so they can make their mark. You see it in business all the time. You see it in the NFL all the time. Rex is one of the biggest examples of this in the NFL. He is married to the 3-4. He will never change. He is also married to running the show. It has to be a "Rex Ryan" defense as we heard so many times this year (Imagine being a player and having your squad labeled by the HC and not it's players, it would bother me). On our end we didn't riot when this was all playing out because most people looked at 2013's defense also being good and now we would have the master and not the apprentice. It just didn't go that way so people are forcing the Schwartz/Ryan debate as if one could even exist. It was never possible. It's also likely the apprentice was more successful than the master because the apprentice had less you needed to know. All we discussed this year about Rex and what happened to our defense has been discussed and verified by multiple people/players/writers. We played slow, confused, and uninspired. One more season for Rex and given recent history, if we do dump him, the Bills will be switching back to a 4-3 just prior to it's 3-4 roster taking shape.

Both 3-4 legends with lots of defensive coordinator experience and fathers who coached in football. Excluding interim coaching, Wade has a career 79-57 record, Ryan has a career 58-60 record. It's interesting how Ryan was a guy the Bills targeted but nobody touches Wade. All he seems to do is win wherever he is. He's fallen short in the playoffs over and over, but it's not as if Rex has a ring. I know his Bills squads had great records but were somewhat overshadowed following the Kelly years. We were a spoiled fan base during those times. I don't recall what actually severed our relationship with Wade. I'm 34 and those were some memorable years, I just remember the players and games more than situational things like why we lost a player or coach. Anybody recall? Anybody rather have Wade vs Rex? Anybody think it's shocking the guy isn't a HC? He seems to fall victim to high expectations getting fired his first down year everywhere he goes despite success in previous seasons.

Nothing 90% of the board couldn't have gotten at some point. Before the flood of "I don't drive drunk" posts, sure. Neither do I. Have I done it in my life at least once? Sure. Has 90% of the board done the same. Likely.

I think Goodwin is even worse

Great character, great athleticism. The most injury prone player I have ever seen.

WR's are never playing a large role in this offense, but we lose all of our vertical passing game if Watkins is injured. The vertical passing game needs to be in play in all of our games. It's a huge part of Tyrod's game and the main area Roman seems to pick up yardage in the passing game. If the vet minimum with an incentive based contract is an option I don't see how that hurts us. That type of money is just as likely useless elsewhere on a retread, which is what I would consider Harvin. Just with upside and very specific upside that relates to this team.

That's it. Even in the normal job market if you held a high position, quit before you established yourself, then applied for another similar role, I just don't see it going well. You gave up on exactly what you're seeking. You also put your employer in a difficult position when you quit. Marrone made a very poor judgement call on how this would play out and that's on him. I don't think the scenario requires hindsight to see things going this way.

Gilbride spoke to a lot of the reasons people still think the verdict isn't out on Taylor. Taylor really didn't show all season that he could read a coverage and throw to a man who was was covered but about to become open after his break. That is what all the best ones do. It's also the hardest thing to do as a QB. Only 3-5 guys can do it consistently and about 5 more can do it inconsistently. Then you take in the other comments and it's the balance of what Taylor did do well. We already know most QB's in the NFL don't pass the test Gilbride was holding Taylor to. So now you have 20 or so QB's that will be a blend of arm/accuracy, deep passes, 1 or 2 read passes, improvisation, limiting turnovers, and running. In these areas Taylor probably had the best seasons in the NFL. In fact I would argue we didn't lose a game all year with because Taylor was the starter. He had better games than others, but he never was so bad he was the predominant reason for the loss. Tyrod might not ever be a true franchise QB but if he's the next best thing to one he's might just be as valuable.

If we got anybody who fits into the DL it would the Jets NT Harrison. He's a beast 3-4 NT and very young.

What came first the chicken or the egg? It takes a great model to build leaders. I don't know if Rex is providing that model. As far as the players, so few individuals are natural leaders. I don't know how many we have. The combination is not good.