Mikie2times

Wild Card or not that Bills team in the MCM was one of the best defenses we ever had at a time when that really meant something. It's very possible we make a SB run that year just as the team we should have beat did. I just can't rank 13 seconds ahead of MCM. At least with 13 seconds everything happened within what would be considered normal football. Even if it was incredibly unlikely. Much less shocking to me than seeing a throwback on a kickoff to the house.

Well, do we? I mean, did we not run the same defense against them last year or was this our version of learning? You have disagreed in a way that leads to good dialogue and I appreciate that. I guess I don't like defensive systems that are too "system" oriented which we seem to be. Next week we will see KC have issues with the Bengals because the Bengals shred man defense. I can unearth some stats from advanced sites, but it's like two different teams, man vs zone. KC plays virtually all man. Buffalo is a dominant zone team, generally more shell/bend but don't break principles. We did seem to play brackets a lot against them yesterday. I don't know if I buy the "gassed" part. Hill just beat Jackson inside because Jackson had improper technique for what was called. That might have been because he was tired, I don't know. Kelce was just given a seam route to set up the FG with no attempt at slowing him down. That was not from being gassed. These two players combined are better than any two offensive threats we have. As one poster pointed out, what player do we have that can take a slant to the house like Hill or is a HOF level receiver like Kelce? We have caught up in the arms race. We are perceived to be ahead in the defensive race. All I can land on is they have two of the most dynamic offensive players in football. So much so that they make Diggs and Knox look normal. The production against us stands out even if it is somewhat flawed as far as when it occurred.

Fair enough. I'm not focused on yesterdays what could have we done better. More the future, what do we have to do better. Play calling, game management, and talk of 13 seconds doesn't wildly change future outcomes. If we get aggressive sooner, so does KC. At least you could make that argument. Even though we contained them for some time in yesterdays game, the explosion late did cost us the game. It's also incredible the level of total production those two have against us in just two playoff games. I also don't think Diggs is the impact player Hill is, regardless of the stats, nor do I think Knox is the impact player Kelce is at this time. I do see those two players as being the difference in this rivalry as we move forward. Our defense is better, although basically equal when facing this level of competition. Our QB's are all but equal. Our skilled position players are very good, but KC's has two of the most dynamic in the league. Hill's speed is incredible and Kelce is a Hall of Fame TE.

I thought about the same thing right when the drive started. The loss was also so much more frustrating just knowing what a win could have done for Josh. People talk about why he doesn't make Pro Bowls or isn't in the MVP race. That all would have ended in one game if we win. With the loss it will be forgotten about rather soon. It's just the nature of the game.

No, but Hill was for the first completion of that drive, then Kelce for the second on the seam route to kick the tying FG.

Meh, you had other angles to work, like how we sort of shut them down more in a regular season game this year when the KC offense had yet to find it's form or how we sort of shut them down last year in a rain home game. The "defense was gassed". Ya, no thank you. If anything you're emphasizing the point of needing to shut them down. When we did, as you're stating, we at least slowed KC down to some degree. Until we no longer could shut them down and not even close when it counted most.

Like most of you, today’s aftermath was pretty brutal. I’m searching for any silver lining or factoid to understand more. In this game, yes, it came down to 13 poorly managed seconds. That said what will it come down to in the future? This is a young enough Chiefs team currently on its 4th consecutive AFC championship game and possibly 3rd consecutive SB. They aren’t going anywhere. Even if more competition is being added in this thing will run through KC for the foreseeable future until proven otherwise. I don’t look at this anymore like it’s about beating Mahomes. We matched QB play yesterday and I feel comfortable saying only two QB’s in the NFL can literally do anything on the field. Burrow and Herbert could be incredible players but they will never be like Mahomes or Josh. The improvisation and athletic ability on both while slightly different, is unique to only those two. What has really been the difference maker in the two playoff games and how do we get over the hurdle? Hill and Kelce in two playoff games have been targeted 48 times, they have 41 catches, 536 yards, and 4TD’s. That is the problem with KC. Our defense, going into the game knows the two players who will be highlighted by KC and it’s not that we can’t stop them. I don’t think anybody can stop them. The problem is they perform BETTER against us than they do on average. If you broke down these stats to individual averages, they average 10.25 catches, 134 yards, and 1 TD per game against Buffalo the last two years in the Playoffs. This year, in 16 games started by both, they averaged 6.34 catches, 73.86 yards, and .56 TD’s. They average close to double the production against our defense than they do in the regular season. Even looking at the final two minutes of yesterdays game. You let Hill take a crosser to the house and then just give Kelce the seam for the FG. Our “better” defense becomes more neutral with QB’s this good. Even though Diggs is special and Knox looks like he might be, they’re not at the level of Hill and Kelce at this time. Some might say we need to focus on getting home against Mahomes or we need to get a home game. These things can help with the above issue. Bottom line, we need to be better at defending the two clearest threats of the KC offense and up until this point we have shown to be absolutely awful at it. It feels somewhat schematic driven as we are built to defend the pass more than the run so reduction in defensive performance against averages just seems improbable. Is anybody else seeing this similar to me right now? Outside of Allen and Mahomes, who changed the trajectory of the game yesterday? Clearly Davis, but he’s not ready to be in this conversation just yet. Outside that it’s the usual suspects that we don’t seem to have any answer for.

People need to deal with what they're feeling. That's why you see it get like this. Sure, with context, we had a solid year. We also just missed the best chance we had at winning a SB since Wide Right and lost a playoff game in the most excruciating way since MCM, so it's not like this is just a run of the mill. This will go down in Bills lore. Further and I'm sure others exist in this camp, but what is the takeaway from this? Last year we had a takeaway. How do we beat the Chiefs? How are the Chiefs not a step even closer to becoming the Patriots for us just on the biggest stage? I don't have a silver lining right now and saying things like we used to suck so we should be thankful or a few weeks ago we never thought we would even win a game. Those don't really work as silver linings a year removed from an AFC championship appearance and blowing a lead with 13 seconds.

It's one of the worst losses in our history for multiple reasons. The gravity of the situation (I do believe the winner goes to play for the SB). The insane multiple comebacks only to fall short. Left to wonder what else can we possibly do? What is the learning experience from this game for next year? How the hell do we beat KC? Plus you just wanted to for Josh and our team so bad. Just to get over the damn hump. This was as bad a MCM. In both games we took the lead with about the same amount of time and lost.

I think if your main goal is to go to the Super Bowl at a reasonable cost, it's a rather brilliant approach.

He's 1-4 in NFC championship games and a decade removed from his last Super Bowl. I know you didn't compare him to Favre, but if I was, it would be to say they have had a very similar ride. Almost stunning. Individual accolades and fame received for being either the best or among them pale in comparison to team hardware. I don't know how much blame I would place on Rodgers. I'm too far outside the GB organization to know the innards of that team. It is rather remarkable they can never seem to make it past the Divisional or NFC Championship. I think if people were to ask right now if Allen has an identical career to Rodgers do we consider that successful? I don't mean in the context of when we drafted Allen, but right now given many feel he is among the best in the league for years to come. I would think anybody should answer that without hesitation, Rodgers is looked at among the all time greats, but given the lack of success in SB wins and appearances, I don't know if I would be happy. More tormented and frustrated that it never amounted to more. It's a weird situation and I'm curious if he leaves how that ends up looking for all involved. Please keep him out of the AFC.

This is a great thread, it would be so interesting to meet some of you and find out how you arrived where you're or if you have always been there how did you come to be a Bills fan. Sounds like some good offseason discussion.

Did you see Josh's post game after New England? It wasn't an act. He really didn't care what just happened. After a year of being a Super Bowl contender and taking everybody's best shot. An AFC championship loss. Two straight playoff losses. We are dealing more with a team who understands how hard it is to get to the Super Bowl and is no longer content in just making the playoffs. I hope no more lessons need to be learned. It doesn't appear like it right now. Josh was so cold blooded last week after that stunning performance.

I don't think it matters at all. I don't even think last week mattered to them outside knowing they needed to do what they did last week to get to KC.

I say this based on no data to back it up, but I think once a team has reached a Super Bowl recently the bye really can help. As an example it helped New England for a really long time. It could/would help a team like KC right now as well as the Bucs had they got it. I always thought it really helped the Bills in the 90's. If you really are the best team, and you have experience, I think it helps a ton. As for the rest of them, it's a wash.

Wanted to draft him.

Black QB’s have it easy. Thanks for trying to even the playing field 😂

Unless I think I have a legit shot at a title, I don't think I'm playing for BB.

If McKenzie is capable of being our number one option against hill in 7 days time, all our DB's need to go.

He looks so tiny in that video. He's developed so much physically.

He's a passing scrambler, which is pretty rare. A few have existed. Probably the most comparable in ability to do both in my eyes would be Steve Young, but Josh is clearly much different than Steve Young. Both are passing scramblers but Young was like a symphony and Allen is like a Metallica concert. Young was much more refined. Allen is just a savage. Russell Wilson also has a similar game, but again, just much different. Any comp you can think of needs a touch of amphetamine, 3 inches, 30 pounds, and some uncle Rico.

So did the Bills REALLY know?

I think a lot of this is based on him being a stride runner. I think stride runners have that slower start and stop, but sneaky top end and if you put that in a TE's body with a FB's brain. The Josh Allen experience is certainly what to call it. Nothing like him exists.

That is how I see it, it just couldn't have been missed in this obvious of a way. I see him growing into being even more athletic in the Pro's and then combining that with his competitive nature and a need to survive. I think he just was forced to try it more when he was a rookie and then built a ton of confidence in his ability likely starting with the leap in Minnesota.