Backintheday544

This should have been solved in the 80s. A kid was shot holding a SEGA light gun. After that you had Nintendo and SEGA change the color of their guns.

What’s your definition of racism? Maybe that’s the issue? We have people on here saying it’s racist. We have black people in GA saying it’s racist. But if there definition doesn’t match yours, maybe that’s the disconnect? Maybe it’s a burden of proof thing for me but when a class of people are saying hey this discriminated against us and I’m not part of that class, I’d tend to believe them over my opinion that more than likely can’t see issues that so and so class would see since I’m not part of such class. When the Bills play the Patriots, I think we all assume they cheat. When the Republicans make an election bill/decision it’s not like there isn’t very recent precedents of them being racist. Just look at North Carolina gerrymandering that got destroyed in the courts due to it being extremely racist.

The clinics, schools, etc have two things an election doesn’t. First they have limited funds and can’t help everyone. Second of a person comes in to say a clinic and doesn’t have documentation, most clinics will work with them there to try to help them prove what is needed to be proven to get help. If you show up without an ID because you don’t have one, the poll worker isn’t going to sit there and help you fill out the free ID card so you can vote there. I’m addition you wouldn’t be able to vote in GA since there is no same day registration like there is in CO. You bring up NY gun ownership and that’s a great example. Just because the state has the ability to restrict something doesn’t make it right. The CO documentation won’t allow everyone to vote. But instead of blocking 10 percent of your population from voting it’s probably down to 1 percent. The free ID isn’t free. Most people on this board are 1) not destitute and 2) are from Buffalo. That alone brings unconscious bias to a group of people being impacted by these laws that sometimes it’s hard to understand. My previous example of being blown away someone aged 18 in Chicago doesn’t have a drivers license because I grew up in suburbs of Buffalo. But that’s a majority of teenagers and a decent bit of adults in bigger cities. Circling back to the free ID isn’t free. Say in GA a US citizen, let’s say he’s a war vet, fell on hard times and is at homeless shelter. He hears a Mike Pence speech and thinks Pence will fix everything and wants to vote for him. He doesn’t have an id and has $20 to his name. The only way for him to get the ID is to 1) travel to local court house, say $5 on a bus one way. 2) request his birth certificate, say $20 a copy. 3) take the bus home, another $5. 4) probably can’t get it same day so another $10 back and forth to pick it up when it’s ready. He’s already spent $40 of his $20 and also hasn’t had food so he probably dies of starvation before pulling the lever for Pence. Outside of that there’s the time. Bus and dealing with a courthouse probably takes 2 hours. That’s 2 hours he could have been doing something to make money. Maybe he would have made $10 those two hours. He’s now really out $50, with $20 to his name. So now your free ID has this guy starving and $30 in the hole. Since he doesn’t have access to credit, he can’t get the ID.

You’re ignoring the much more broad definition of ID in CO compared to GA. As a comparison, CO ID law is like Buddy Nix drafting a QB where any reasonable thing looking like a QB will work (and we get EJ Manuel). GA ID law is like Beane drafting a QB. It needs to be meet specific requirements and you need to jump through hoops to get it like trading a bunch of players to accumulate picks to move up in the draft. Can you point out proof of ineligibles substantially voting in states with less strict election laws?

Para 1: Free clinics and low income clinics typically need proof you reside in their area. So from her parents she could present ID similar to the Colorado ID requirement: A copy of a current (within the last 60 days) utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the elector. For work W-9 allows student ID and social security card, which would allow her to vote in CO but not in GA. Para 2: You don’t seem to understand how the Constitution works. We have legal precedent on restricting gun ownership through interpretation of the Constitution in court case. For example, in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 553 (1875), the Court stated that the Second Amendment “has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government,” and in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 265 (1886), the Court reiterated that the Second Amendment “is a limitation only upon the power of Congress and the National government, and not upon that of the States.” Constitutionally voter ID laws have been usually upheld but it doesn’t take away from the fact they are disadvantageous especially to poor Americans. Para 3: As I’ve said on my position, the CO law that the right thinks is so similar to GA has an ID law that should be used nation-wide. CO has 13 forms of ID and a good catch-all that I provided above. It’s not overly restrictive and it’s a high enough hurdle to prove that they can vote where they are voting. I put it in my last post but here’s a great read from NPR on how hard it is for elderly people to get ID: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-getting-the-right-id-can-be-especially-tough (it even talks about a group helping them get IDs) GA offers free IDs - 1) opportunity cost. A person getting the ID still needs to take time off a job to apply. 2) actual cost. Again reference the NPR article, you still need things like birth certificates to get the ID. Economically disadvantaged people are more likely not to have those documents and not to have the money to pay and get them. 3) cost of travel, again poor people may find the cost of a bus trip better used on things like food. You can read about the high cost of free IDs here:https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf Free IDs are also not free for taxpayers. Indiana implemented a free voting ID and in a three year period cost the state over $13 million.Why should taxpayers pay for something like that when there has been no proven facts that it decreases voter fraud? You really have to ask yourself what this boils down to. Republicans are trying to use a method that’s been statistically proven to decrease voting in a segment of America that typically doesn’t vote for them at the cost of American taxpayers. They’re not trying to fix voter fraud (which again is very far and few between). When you boil it down to that, you’re supporting a party position that is specifically targeted at taking away the most fundamental right of being an American. To me, that doesn’t sound like the right side to be on.

First comment is just a stereotype of poor people. Between that, your comment on flying, etc it doesn’t seem as you’ve ever interacted with such a community and are using your biases to make pre-determined decisions about a group of people. There are plenty of ways to live without a bank account and receive money without a bank account. FDIC puts it at 7.1 million households who are unbanked: https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html So if the households 1 person that’s at least 7.1 Americans who don’t need an ID. We’re not talking a huge percent of the US but it’s like 10 percent and GAO studies have found these strict ID laws can reduce turnout by 2-3 percent. Again, not a huge chunk of people but if an American wants to vote, then they should be able to vote. Elderly on just social security is another larger group that don’t have a bank account as they can receive their payments through a debit card. NPR has a great article on the elderly and how tough it can be for them to get an ID: https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-getting-the-right-id-can-be-especially-tough Again, I’m not 100 percent against an ID law. I’m against ID laws that are either overly restrictive (GA and only allowing 6 forms of ID) or ones that clearly favor one party over another (TX allowing a conceal carry but not student ID, WI allowing active duty ID cards but no VA ID cards) I’ll point to Colorado’s voting laws since Republicans are flaunting how great they are since they’re “like” GA. Their major catch all is: “A copy of a current (within the last 60 days) utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the elector.” (You can find their full list here: https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/vote/acceptableFormsOfID.html)

Most people living pay check to paycheck don’t waste cash on alcohol. Many people don’t have bank accounts. Look at how many stimulus checks had to go on government debit cards. Again, people who are economically disadvantaged probably aren’t getting a loan. Here’s a survey analysis that shows 25 percent of americans are unbanked or under banked: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/25percent-of-us-households-are-either-unbanked-or-underbanked.html To address your hypothetical, is there any proof of that happening in recent history? If we went by the CO laws, the person would need to provide a utility bill or paycheck (neither allowed in GA) and that would show you’re not Joe Smith. Plus the penalty of several years in jail to get what, 5 votes is already a pretty big deterrent and probably one reason it’s extremely uncommon in modern voting.

They didn’t. They had no reason to. About 10 percent of Americans have never flown. I’d guess if you did a Venn diagram there would be an overlap of economicly poor and people who never flew. Coming from rural WNY I couldn’t believe there were people who didn’t have a drivers license as everyone I knew grabbed one when they were 16. Again, people on limited or fixed budgets. One a college student with no money and the other on fixed Social Security. When given the choice of getting food or getting a card that’s not needed for anything (in most states like CO), which would you chose? The bill doesn’t go against dregs as you point out. It goes against normal people. Mainly people who live in city.

To think Republicans wouldn’t pass “voting reform” that is racist is just dumb. It’s what Republicans do. Just look at North Carolina where they gerrymandered to take away black voices: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/north-carolina-gerrymandering/527592/ These “dregs” on society as you say are American people. They have the right to one vote just as you have the right to one vote. There is plenty examples of people who don’t have an ID. I went to college in Chicago. A girl I knew there grew up in Chicago and didn’t have a drivers license and had no reason to need one. She took the L everywhere. College student, limited funds, didn’t drink, didn’t want to get a non-drivers ID. Under the CO law she can vote with her college ID under the GA law she cannot. Would that be dreg? My grandmother lived in a city. When she got too old she couldn’t drive and let her license lapse. Under CO law she can use her utility bill to vote. Under GA law she cannot. Is she a dreg on society?

So one side is trying to make it easier for Americans to exercise their greatest right. Another side is trying to make it harder for Americans to exercise their greatest right. I don’t know. Seems like one side has the moral prerogative here. Republicans appear to love COs voting laws. Maybe we should follow that nationally and everyone is mailed a ballot?

Do you honestly think if this law was passed a year ago and Trump lost GA he wouldn’t have had a hissy fit?

Emission caps make sense in infrastructure as the US and the auto industry turns away from gas powered vehicles, we need infrastructure to support electric.

Just destroys lies of the right: It’s amazing what happens when actual facts are presented instead of looking and relying on misleading tweets.

Off the top of my head environmental things like emission standards that are not budget related.

Isnt that what GA is going through GA Republicans make a stupid decision to pass the law based on their feelz because Trump cried election fraud. No they are facing real economic consequences for their decision based on their feelz? MLB alone takes $100,000,000 out of the state.

The Dems don’t though. Reconciliation can only be used for things that effect the budget. A bi- partisan bill could be more expansive and add laws that can’t be done through reconciliation.

I didn’t. It’s exactly how the government is supposed to work as the government specifically allows it in its rules. Now the Republicans can try to compromise so reconciliation doesn’t need to be used. They’re in the spot where either they work with Dems or they get no input on the bill. That should give them motivation to work with Dems. That or they will say the infrastructure bill the Dems pass has death panels for your grandparents or some other lie to try and swap public opinion.

and those aren’t the only ones Colorado allows. They also allow a birth certificate (which almost everyone has), bank statements, government check, paycheck, or any other document from the government with name and address. Again, all things you don’t need to pay for and most likely will have at least one of without having to do anything special.

Except there was outrage before it passed. For example: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/georgia/articles/2021-02-26/democrats-begin-georgia-capitol-sit-in-over-voting-bills https://www.gpb.org/news/2021/03/16/protesters-draw-georgia-big-business-the-voting-rights-fray

Those are each things that you get in your every day life. There’s no special thing you need to do go out of your way to show you reside somewhere.

The basic premise of voter ID laws is fine. Things like a utility bill that can be used in places like CO and WI should be proof enough that you can vote there. The issue with Republicans and voter ID laws is their inconsistent way to try to implement them at the disadvantage for other people. For example, why is it ok to use a gun license in TX but not a student ID? Had the Republicans ever come to the table with voter ID laws that don’t cost money or time to acquire or if they would apply a standard that doesn’t harm people from voting then I think you wouldn’t see much push back on them. However, that’s not the case. Republicans have used voter ID laws as a cover to suppress votes. Plus in the light of fiscal conservatism, implementing say a state or National voting ID system is very very expensive. Does that very large cost justify stopping something like voter fraud that just historically hasn’t been shown to happen? In the light of Trumpism, why do we need additional regulations when there is no problem?

Yea. Republicans did it. If anything this will force Republicans to try to compromise instead of just stonewalling.

It would be nice if the right stopped trying to make false equivalency. Does Colorado have a voter ID law? Yes. Is it the same as GA? No. CO allows things like student IDs and utility bills. Both things that are at no addition monetary outlay or time commitment to get. GA is state issued IDs like a drivers license or passport. Which either take a time or monetary outlay to acquire and have shown to be disadvantageous to people of color. Colorado also has a system in place that wants people to vote. Voter turnout in Colorado is one of the highest in the country. One of the main reasons for that is its accessibility to the ballot. Colorado actually mails citizens a ballot so they can vote by mail. GA does not mail citizens a ballot and in fact the new GA law makes it harder for 1) you to get a mail in ballot and 2) for the mail in ballot to count. Again, things things that have historically been disadvantageous to people of color. CO allows same day voter registration. GA does not and further restricts voter registration with the new law. Again, something shown to disproportionately affect people of color. CO has drop boxes open 24 hours a day and you can drop your ballot off in a place other than your district. GAs new law restricts use of drop boxes. Yes, GA has a longer early voting period than CO but it doesn’t matter. Why? Because COs laws for mail in ballots have almost the entire state voting by mail and a very small fraction actually votes in person or uses early voting. If GA passed a voting law like CO then Republicans would be up in arms about it. I’m glad you think the law is ok but you and the other Republicans are also ignoring all the voices of people of color who are telling you that this adversely affects there community. Black churches in GA: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/03/georgia-black-churches-voting-restrictions NAACP: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/03/30/civil-rights-groups-including-aclu-naacp-sue-georgia-over-voting-law/ Black business leaders: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/business/voting-rights-georgia-corporations.html The GOP needs to cut the false narrative out. It makes a flashy tweet that people who can’t read more than 120 characters can go post on a message board but they’re just doing more harm for the country than good.

Dems win a major thing! Parliamentarian rules Dems can use reconciliation to pass 2 more bills this fiscal year. that means infrastructure will be a done deal without Republicans: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/05/politics/senate-parliamentarian-democrats-amend-budget-resolution-infrastructure/index.html

Great analysis of why the comparison of Georgia and Colorado voting laws is dumb: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/06/colorado-voting-laws-vs-georgia/ Every state should adopt the Colorado system where everyone gets a mail in ballot mailed to them.