MasterStrategist

It's a stretch to say he performed like "peterman" his rookie year. Peterman was downright awful, and held his starting role for less than a few games. Not at all like zay. And to say he "disappeared in 10 of 16 games", could be debated by saying: 1. he had very little support from other Wes, until foster stepped it up 2. Peterman did start a couple games, then we had a rookie QB learning on the job Zay isn't close, at least right now, to being a wr1. But his skill set and improvement last year, points to wr2 potential this season. wr3 at worst. And don't be upset at other posters calling you out on your original post. It's not like you said, "we are adding competition to the WR room, and I think zay has an uphill battle to make the team". Instead, you said "calling it now, Zay isn't on the week 1 roster". the latter, has much more conviction and comes across as a prediction as opposed to conversation. Everyone is rooting for the team to succeed, but you appear to be trying really hard to cover your bases by continuing to say it was only a February opinion. If I made this opinion in the first place, id either continue to support it or just say I was wrong (which it isn't week 1 yet, so we can wait and see). Either way, you made a prediction specifically about zay, not a post to start a convo about our wr group improving (at least your title didn't allude to that at all), so both sides have a right to call out after this is all settled. Go bills

Great point about Chad Hall! Hoping he can coach up the young group

Great thread, as others have stated! Kudos to the great and knowledgeable fans on this board. Regarding "told you so" game, that is bound to happen when someone makes a bold statement. And it wasn't started, at least the title doesn't reflect an open convo about all the WRs...such ad "let's discuss our WR camp competiton". The post was a direct statement about Zay jones not making the team, so ppl who are still supporting him are likely to become defensive and may get upset. Nothing wrong with anyone staying their opinion, but nobody should be offended by bold statements or someone wanting to call out he makes the 53 (after the fact).. Me personally, if it hasn't been transparent, I still strongly support Zay, but can understand others doubts. Like you said, great competition will be good for all this training camp! Super exciting, great time to be a fan of this team. And it's great to have a group of educated fans giving their thoughts on here, all in good fun/support of our team. So thanks again for starting this great thread, pretty awesome dialogue.

Great post! Thing is, and this just might be me, but Robert Woods didn't look like a #2 (borderline #1) until he left the Bills. Our passing attack has been so bad for years. that is is difficult to assess how good our WRs are/were. When we trot out a bottom 5 offensive line, rookie QB (or Tyrod), and a different o coordinator each year, then how much can you really assess the situation? I hope we're both right, Zay continues his development into a #2 and Duke outplays him...that would be awesome! At least we have some competition at camp this year, so nobody will just be making the squad out of default

No offense, but strongly disagree. We'll find out soon enough, but for everyone dogging on Zay, he's a safer bet than Foster. But I think Foster still makes it and has a role, speed/deep threat

Wish him the best! But he will need to be a full level, maybe 2, above our other WRs on the field. Bc his maturity and off field issues will not be working in his favor. So that leaves me asking, who is he going to beat out? Safe bet that Brown,Beasley, Foster, Zay, and Roberts are safe...which leaves one spot and hopefully he can play special teams, because that will be the concern vs McKenzie, Ray Ray, and Sills

None taken. Sorry my point wasn't to call his good games and exclude the bad. Just wanted to mention the obvious, which is Slay and Ramsey would have shut down Foster too. And there s a reason those teams matched their best corners against Zay. Can certainly appreciate the comparisons that you and GunnerBill have included here as well. Good discussion going on

Great assessment of the past two WR drafts, and overall summary. Agree that separation and catching are two high level, very important qualities that evaluators look at. Catch skills/quality is a trait that most fans can at least attempt to evaluate. However, separation is really complex....(man vs zone defense, what routes and complementary WR routes are being ran, what depth/did the receiver get where he was supposed to be on time, what # read was he on the play, etc). I'd say anyone short of the coaches, who tries to evaluate separation is not providing a thorough/accurate assessment. I agree, I think Zay has stiffer competition vs years past, and that he will ultimately make the roster. Let the best man win! Just my opinion, but saying that Zay will be traded or cut (not make the roster) is almost as outlandish as saying Dion Dawkins won't make this team. All of the inconsistencies and improved positional competition exists there too...just saying?

I think you can toss the Jax and Det game out the window...both games Zay drew a top 5 corner in the NFL playing man to man. If Foster was being covered by Ramsey or Slay, I bet those stat lines would be flipped. I think we can all agree that many factors are at play , like above, so those direct comparisons are not always apples to apples. Now that said, Zay isnt a #1 receiver, but I think he's been progressing. And I see his potential as a #2. It's been unfair to the team and him, that he was practically our #1 last season with only Foster as another weapon....to go along with a horrible line and rookie QB. Let's see what happens now that we have some other pieces to help dictate coverage away from Zay, the makings of a competent line, and year 2 for our QB. At least we have some competition this year, that should only help everyone and let the best man win that WR4 spot. I agree with GunnerBill that the WR5/6 will be guys who can also contribute to specials

To answer your questions, my opinion: 1. Many teams, especially attacking 4-3s like ours, run defensive line rotations/frequent substitutions. This includes Seattle, Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, us. etc. 2. Any given Sunday, I'd expect our starting 4 would be: Hughes, Star, Oliver, and Shaq (barring injury to these men) 3. Murphy, Yarbrough (as of now) and both Phillips get used in the normal rotation (non-situation driven) 4. Obvious passing situations, I would expect: Hughes, Oliver, Zo, and Murphy. This is the wide 9 grouping, minus Kyle that they ran last year. With Kyle lined up next to Hughes and running frequent Texas stunts 5. Obvious short yardage (goal line): i would expect all 4 defensive tackles on the field, along with 2 defensive ends. Typically aligning the tackles in the 1 eye and 2 eye techniques Any attacking 4-3 system requires basically the equivalent of 2 waves/rotations. Because they are asked to penetrate and shoot gaps every single play, they should never be taking a down off and gives them more opportunity to stay fresh for the entire game. Regarding Oliver, it is very obvious that we needed a 3-technique to replace Kyle. Oliver was the best option to fit in our defense. Not that we had the choice, but I still thin they would have drafted Oliver over Allen. Oliver plays the 2nd most important role on Mcdermotts defense (behind MLB). And based on his pre draft comments, inside pressure was a focus

Awesome, I will have to downlaod periscope. Thanks for that tip. No biggie on the Duke thing. More than anything, I was hoping to hear more from Beane and McDermott about him. I've only watched some highlights/couple games of his, but he looks the part and can't wait to see him play with us.

WOW! Great find.

Thanks Alpha! And appreciate the tip to go look for the Beane presser. Fun to listen to the media pundits, but much more insightful to hear Beane/McDermott discuss our new players

Admittedly, I get really excited and think all of these draftees will turn out great for the Bills. Reality is, usually there's a reason a player doesn't get drafted immediately. BUT, those reasons are not all the same. As many have said, this kid is a real unknown to many scouts/fans, since Ole Miss didn't need/want to focus him in their offense. Can't blame Ole Miss, when you have that type of WR talent that they had. However, I know the former o-coordinator at Ole Miss (now NC) from a past experience, and he had some great things to say about Dawson. And I also know first hand that this offense (air raid) deployed a relatively simplistic route tree... not only for Dawson, but for DK too. Sounds like Dawson has a lot of untapped potential and could be a hidden gem.

New to the board, but just wanted to quickly mention that I agree and appreciate the insight for next year's draft class. I'm excited about the RB from FAU as well. I have a good feeling that he's going to turn into something special for us. Hopefully all the new pieces (and coaching) for our o-line will get that group improved. If so, that alone will be a big boon to our passing attack

I'm new to the board, but just wanted to say thanks GunnerBill ! I was trying to keep up with the draft as best as possible, and reading your commentary/player evaluations were super helpful. As were others in this thread as well

Always exciting with new pieces to work with and a new coach. Hopefully the new coach can quickly identify the "best 5" and get the continuity started. Not the same at all, but somewhat similar to what Indy did with their o-line last year. That certainly worked out very well for them. My guess: Dawkins Teller Morse Spain Ford

Couple points: 1.) Beane's post draft presser briefly discussed Ziggy, and sounds like they are staying in touch with the agent. Perhaps now that the draft is finished, we will see a team (hopefully us) move forward with signing him 2.) I think it is safe to say we are staying pat at CB. With Johnson and Gaines signed, and Taron coming back from injury, I think we'll be ok. Post draft presser made it sound like McDermott likes the corner out of UB, possibly for competition at nickle Be nice if we could get a #1 WR, but I think that's out of the cards until 2020. They took a swing with AB. Just hope Beasley and Brown can stay healthy, b/c I think they have a serviceable group, just nothing spectacular.

New to the board, so first just want to say hi to all and glad to be a part of the best NFL fan base. Regarding the post above, are you referring to the Beane/McDermott post draft presser video that is posted on the Bills website (~19 min long)? If so, I just listened and must have missed the part where they discussed Duke. Can you point out around what minute mark they talk of him? Not trying to be a jerk, just curious to hear more about the new WR. Also, the quote of "wait until the pads on and it's 11 on 11", was for for the new safety drafted ( I think Jacquan). Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss another press conference/released video. As for Zay, my opinion is he sticks around for this season. It's really challenging to evaluate our last 2 seasons, can definitely form opinions, but with Tyrod then a rookie in Josh, behind a horrid offensive line and 2nd o-coordinator in as many years, again just really difficult to evaluate.