glazeduck

Have a hard time with Toney. He definitely jumps off the screen, but only on occasion, and I don't think that kind of player is worthy of a 1st round pick, even though he almost certainly will be (and he'll DEFINITELY be gone before our 2nd). Could you make a case that he's basically a replacement for Smokey and McKenzie? Probably? Is he Desean Jackson or Curtis Samuel, though? I didn't see enough from him to suggest that he can be a routinely productive player at that level, and I just think his draft price is going to be too high. Now if he fell a lot farther than he's been projected, hell yeah, would love to have a player like him! I'm just not sure the price fits the talent fits the need...

Toney?

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LOVE his game. I kinda hope he doesn't test great to keep him under the radar more. Lower division but love his alpha mentality, and in our WR room, we'd be just fine taking a guy needing some refinement. I think he's worlds better than Hodgins.

"Long speed" is probably what I should've gone with. Guess I should clarify here too -- I'm not thinking anything earlier than 10 either, and agree that it's cost prohibitive to go any higher than that. I don't see him going any sooner than 11 anyway, unless someone trades up. But I think you're going to see at least 3 QBs, 2 OTs, and Chase inside the top 10 for sure. That still leaves Waddle, Lance, Smith, Darrisaw and literally EVERY defensive player, for him to contend with inside the top 10. So we're definitely on the same page there.

To me, Collins has DK Metcalf-like build-up speed. And with regards to his route running limitations, to invoke DK again -- I think there are obvious ways you can win with him . To be clear, I don't think he's DK (I stated numerous times on this board that I would've taken him over Oliver, let alone Ford), but I think the "math" is similar... On Pitts: I agree that we *won't* trade up for Pitts. But we should. In the last 4 years, where we had all the information: tape, workouts, combine, interviews, pro days, etc., we ended up with Ford, Knox, Moss, Singletary, Harry Phillips, Zay, and Epanesa. That's not exactly a murderer's row from your day 2 picks. In that same time period, our day 3 picks that have worked out include: Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Wyatt Teller (on another team, but he's clearly a good player), Darryl Johnson, Jaquan Johnson, Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass and jury's still out on Hodgins and Jackson (though candidly I'm not optimistic about either). You can argue that that list has performed as well, if not better than the day 2 group. So this year, given all of the additional challenges to the scouting process, 2s and 3s will be closer to 5s and 6s, when all things are said and done. Also (getting a bit pedantic here), no way in hell does Radunz fall to 60, but your point is taken. Taking Pitts kills multiple birds with one stone, is probably the most "sure thing" outside of maybe Lawrence, Sewell and Chase in this entire draft (which counts for a little extra something, in this draft) and strengthens both WR and TE units without using big FA money.

Surratt and Fehoko are both too slow and not agile enough for me. Great contested ball catchers and good body control, but we already have that in Hodgins, I think. 7th rd or UDFA, sure, but I hope we don't waste a draft pick on him. Jonathan Adams Jr. is one to check out, should definitely be on your 5+ list. Dude is a baller. I think I like Chase over Waddle, but just barely. Waddle comes next and Smith is a distant 3rd for sure. What do you have against Collins? With as late as our 2nd rd pick is, I wouldn't hate that pick at all. Agree on the TEs, we need to find a quality player to take a good-for-us deal. Other option that I've mentioned elsewhere is moving up to take Pitts. Most don't like the idea, but if you can do 1, 2 and 3 for Pitts and two day-3 picks, I think that's a win for us, because I trust our FO to turn at least one of those late picks into something, and the bust rate of players in the 2-4 rds will likely be higher than normal this year anyway.

There are no easy answers to improving the TE position, right now. Honestly, the biggest development would be Knox making a jump, but it's hard to see that occuring and probably even less likely that this front office relies on that. Given our cap situation, the way we've addressed the position in the past and the myriad needs needing filling, I think the more likely and better ROI approach is to sign more of a Rudolph-level TE and roll with more of a 1a/1b approach at the position. I just don't think we have the resources to invest heavily here -- especially for what we'd be getting out of that investment -- and still adequately address our other needs.

Another interesting player at a position of need...

Agree with everything you say here -- his tape does not show a lot. That said, there are plenty of examples where a talented kid did not develop due to poor college coaching, yet has everything untapped to be a great pro. That may or may not be the case here, but I think his movement drills and flexibility could bely a great opportunity to unearth a diamond amidst the crap that was that FSU defense.

The TE position this offseason is rough. Few great options anywhere, frankly, and those top-notch ones will cost a premium -- either in cap space or draft capital. There's a lot to like about Jordan, I think Delanie Walker is a decent comp for him -- smaller than your average TE, but can be effective in both the vertical passing game as well as blocking. While he's not a SPARQ superstar, he's a plenty good enough athlete to be a weapon in a vertical offense like ours. Will he be the next Kelce/Kittle/Waller? Probably not, but we could certainly do way worse. Again though, with it being a weak class, I won't at all be surprised if someone likes him enough to make him a 2nd rd. pick, which probably takes him out of play for us. If you're looking for a high ceiling prospect at a lower price, take a look at Tre McKitty. He'll go cheaper than Jordan and is a bigger and superior athlete. He bounced around schools in college, so the production and tape suggests a predictable lack of chemistry and opportunity. He's far from a sure thing, but that also corresponds to his price...

I like, maybe even borderline love, Jonnu Smith the player, but as a FA I think someone's going to back up the Brinks truck for him. This is a bad TE draft class and a worse TE FA class -- all hitting when we're seeing the position emerge as more of a difference maker. It won't be him. I think Rudolph is most likely, based on nothing more than a gut feeling. As I've said elsewhere, I'd love to trade up for Pitts but recognize that's probably a loooong shot...

Jonathan Adams Jr. is my late round, big wr of choice. Vasher's interesting but I'm not sure he'll ever have the speed and agility to separate as needed.

It's worth pointing out that the 2 most massive QB developments of this past generation have both come working with Morse. I don't know how much that actually means, or if it's just an anomaly, but a player's worth to an organization can certainly be a lot greater that just what you see on the field. Furthermore, yeah, our running game sucked this year, but how did we manage that? We threw all day. I know there's a school of thought that you still have to run the ball to win, and yes McD has even said as much, but when your OL is built to pass protect, and your RBs are at or below avg. and you've got a great QB... at what point do you have to question whether or not restructuring to fit a "should" is worth it?

While I do agree that DE is a pretty glaring need (I'd even be okay with trading up for one), 2 things need to be said about that spot and your comment above: 1. It's going to be impossible to fill every need with an affordable, dynamic player. It just is. 2. Whether we like it or not, I think there's going to be a pretty serious onus on Epenesa developing into solid, reliable player. A good deal of next season's success could rely on that.

Respect the amount of work put in here, differ pretty strongly with a lot of the specific elements. No way Collins falls to the end of the 3rd. Doubtful Hayes lasts to the 5th. Cannot see us taking a S with our one semi-premium pick when we have as many holes to fill as we do. Really think TE and RB need upgrading, one is not addressed at all and the other simply with late rd. flyer on a rookie. I don't really see it with Okwara, and the Lions drafted his brother (the more talented of the two) in last year's draft, so I'd be a little surprised if he left.

Pitts - hell yes! Harris - god no!

This wasn't intended as an argument for trading down (the opposite, in fact), but I think it is exactly that. With Covid affecting both the college season and draft e v a l process, teams will have less information about players than normal, which will lead to more busts and more late round gems. It will come down to your scouting department's ability to unearth undervalued talent, and I think ours has done a stellar job. While the "math" isn't perfect, this year -- more than ever -- any pick after the "safe" players will be closer in value to the next pick, and the subsequent one after that, etc. Basically (dumbed down) a 2=3=4=5=6=7. Move up, get a couple late picks back.

Never in a million years could this happen, but this was a fun one... 39. Jaelan Phillips EDGE Miami (FL) 67. Alim McNeill DT North Carolina State 70. Brevin Jordan TE Miami (FL) 93. D'Ante Smith OT East Carolina 119. Nico Collins WR Michigan 146. Paulson Adebo CB Stanford 158. Jamin Davis LB Kentucky 174. Jermar Jefferson RB Oregon State 178. Joshua Kaindoh EDGE Florida State 215. Jonathan Adams Jr. WR Arkansas State 234. Olaijah Griffin CB USC

Everett will get paid, I think, if for nothing else, than just how bad this FA class is at TE. I'm indifferent on Raymond. I can see the appeal, but you also have to wonder why he's never really popped in an offense that's basically held the door wide open for someone *to* pop.

I know it doesn't really add anything to this conversation, but I think folks are underestimating the quality of FAs and cuts we'll be seeing this year. Obviously $ is somewhat tight, but with a handful of restructures (which can often benefit the player as well) we'll have some money to spend. Barring a major swing elsewhere, which doesn't feel overly likely, I very much doubt we'll be looking at backups and 3rd stringers to fill in starting spots when the dust settles...

It's worth pointing out that the folks making the decision of who to select are also the folks who have firsthand knowledge of how our defensive schemes and playcalling had to (or didn't have to) adjust to accommodate for a deficiency at CB2. Better coverage improves the pass rush; better pass rush improves coverage -- that sort of thing. I guess what I'm saying is just because it's perceived to be a lesser role in the defense, does not mean that it isn't/wasn't an issue, and didn't attribute to other positions where there are also perceived issues... It's also not factoring in free agency (more decisions the same people get to make!!!) and offhand, it's looking like DL free agency will be more robust than CB...

Everett is the only TE I'd have even a modicum of interest in as a FA. Even then, if he was going to be a consistent weapon in the passing game that would've happened by now...

Kind of the crux of my post, right? What strategy would you take in filling our needs. To me, if you can package 1, 2, and 3 and get Pitts and, say 2 6s back, I think that'd be a massive win. Our personnel dept. has shown an ability to mine gold from a number of different positions (CB, S, OT, specifically) so for me it's "fill in the other gaps in FA, swing for the fences on a true impact guy, and build depth through sleeper picks". To me, the biggest thing holding this whole thing back is another true difference maker -- whether its Pitts, Waddle or a pass rusher they deem is elite (and somehow gettable via trade-up), I think that's a move you have to make.

IF he goes that high, then I agree, we can only afford to swing so big. That said, QBs, LTs and pass rushers always get pushed up the board. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw all go ahead of him, and it's conceivable that Mac Jones, an edge rusher or two, another OT or two, and Waddle or Chase go ahead of him too. Would have to work out right for us, but if he were there at 12 or 13, it'd be worth our 1, 2 and 3, I think.