SirAndrew

Baseball stats are not only more measurable, but also less dependent on teammates. Some of baseball’s biggest stars haven’t gotten close to being on a successful team. That’s something you’ll rarely say about big time NFL players. Having an HOF football career can be heavily dependent on circumstance. Baseball players are able to put up big numbers independently. A guy like Aikman was placed in a great situation, and made the most of it. Other players at his level won’t be in the HOF because they weren’t fortunate enough to be in such a situation. Baseball is more of black and white game, while football has a lot of gray area and is so wonderful because it’s such a microcosm of life.

Yeah, it’s impossible to answer what McNabb’s defining moment was. I think that’s what keeps him out of the HOF. He was really good, but lacks a signature moment or achievement. As mentioned by another poster, his career came to an ugly end with Washington and Minnesota. Had he been able to sustain his career average stats for a few more years, then he’d have more of case. McNabb’s successful years came in a short window by modern QB standards. Elite QB’s playing up to and beyond forty seems to be the new norm. That really raises the bar for induction into the HOF as a QB.

I wouldn’t want to depend on Jackson to become my franchise QB, but I agree there is no need to obsess over Wonderlic scores. I’d be more concerned with his ability as a passer. He won’t succeed if he doesn’t become a competent passer, and it really won’t have much to do with some test score.

Every player with the exception of franchise QB’s are viewed as at least somewhat disposable in today’s NFL. It’s much easier to release a big time running back than a franchise QB. NFL teams will always make the socially/culturally prudent move if they don’t fear it will hurt their bottom line/success too much. This is why Kareem Hunt is no longer a Chief, while Big Ben is the face of the Steelers and very popular among NFL fans. Look at a guy like Ray Rice. It really wasn’t daring for that team release a washed up running back. I didn’t see the same franchise release Ray Lewis. The amount of chances a player receives is directly related to their on field value.

Great points. Kelly was likely a mid round choice if not for his off the field issues. He wasn’t a first round talent according to the scouting reports. Had Kelly been a first round draft choice, that incident in Denver wouldn’t have gotten him released. Roethlisberger’s career in Pittsburgh is loaded with off field chaos. The difference is Big Ben was a first round pick who had early success.

I agree. Most of this board seems to believe that Kelly is throwing away immense potential. Of course he has talent, otherwise he wouldn’t be an NFL QB. The issue is the fact that Bills fans overrate his talent. I don’t see any national media outlets comparing the Chad Kelly story to Todd Marinovich or Ryan Leaf. No place outside of TBD is it universally agreed upon that Chad Kelly was destined to be an NFL great had he stayed out of trouble. Sure, he is physically gifted, but there was never a legit consensus that Kelly was the next great NFL QB. He’s just another NFL QB, aside from the fact that he keeps trying to destroy his own career. No one ever said he was the next Peyton Manning. TBD members are wearing “Bills goggles” when evaluating this dude.

It’s not like Barkley has a job while Manuel got chased out of the league though. I’m seeing a lot of posts around here making it sound as if Manuel couldn’t find employment. He had just signed a deal with the Chiefs before retiring. Manuel chose to retire, he didn't fail to find a job. Lower tier guys can stick around for a long time as a backup. Manuel would have been given a chance to compete in KC. He chose to walk away.

Just another example of people who take things a little too far ruining it for everyone.

I was also concerned with the blowouts losses last season. After having the off-season to reflect I’m far less worried. Two of the blowout losses were Nathan Peterman starts, and an additional two were Derek Anderson starts (if you even consider the MNF home loss to the Pats a true blowout, as we were in it until quite late in the game). The shutout in Green Bay was quite early in Allen’s season as well. If this happens again, I’ll be very worried. I think it’s important to put those blowout losses in context. That’s something talking heads such as Cowherd never do when they have a narrative to sell. He’s always been a big numbers guy, but frequently neglects the intricacies of sports that can’t be measured with numbers.

Except I’m not sure there were really 7 blowouts. I know that it happened far too often, but I don’t think 7 times is entirely accurate tbh. I guess it depends on your definition of “blowout”.

This^ I’ve never been some homer who gets upset when the media disses the team. There is some truth to the fact they still have much to prove. He’s just an instigator who makes his career kissing up to big market sports. He loves dissing small markets and dismisses all their fans as backward hillbillies or something (although he’s the man with the word cow in his surname). He just likes putting this stuff out there so angry Bills insult him giving him a story that fits his narrative/schtick.

I hear ya, and completely believe it. Out of control pro athlete behavior isn’t really surprising. I guess my point is that JK never paid the price for his antics as far as on field success is concerned. Chad has thrown away multiple opportunities by getting kicked off teams. JK never got caught, Chad gets caught all the time. We don’t know if JK would have smartened up had he been kicked off a team. Chad’s repeat offenses are what troubles me. I’m not making a moral judgment, there’s just something to be said for being smart enough to not make the same mistake twice. Guys like JK who never got in legal trouble don’t have much motivation to change. Chad needed to change long ago because he’s thrown away his career.

The issue with Chad is that he has yet to prove himself as a competent NFL starter. There isn’t enough film on him in a starting role to prove that. We hear all about his immense talent on this board, but he has yet to prove himself at the pro level. Somehow he keeps getting chances. Most unproven guys would have been out of football long ago with his track record. If he were a proven NFL talent then I’d understand.

Don’t worry this is his last chance (I think), and history shows it’s almost certain he’ll blow it.

I’d consider McKenzie gone at this point. I don’t see any chance he makes this roster.

Thanks for the info, sounds promising., We can use help in the WR room, and it’s a good position to test the UDFA market. I’m not sure there’s a great deal of separation between mid round WR draft picks and the undrafted guys these days.

We shall find out. I do trust your assessment, but I’d never too certain of any UDFA regardless (with that said, I don’t follow college ball much). He may very well turn out to be a good one. I just joke because the dude checks off every box required to become a TBD training camp folk hero.

I get the feeling he’s going to become this years Proehl on TBD. This board is going to fall head over heels in love with this dude.

This^ I expect Fitz to have one of the greatest preseasons of all time, only to crash and burn around week three.

Idk. Everyone likes to compare Jim and Chad. I’m not convinced that it’s a reasonable comparison, regardless of the era they played. Chad has a history of arrests and legal issues, Jim did not have such problems. There’s a big difference between running afoul with the law versus not having great character. In Chad’s case making the same mistakes repeatedly shows a lack of self awareness and intelligence. Jim’s shenanigans didn’t get him kicked off multiple teams.

Exactly. Chad might think he learned something, but it might be like a drunk who says they’ll never drink again every time they wake up with a hangover. I’m sure he knows that he made a big mistake, but how does it go when life tempts him again?

He might be, but I don’t see much promise from anyone in this QB class, unless Murray has big success.

Nah, he’s wrong again. Lock might be decent backup. Problem is the Broncos will need a starter.

Exactly. Everyone seems to be on the BPA train these days. The Giants went BPA last year with Barkley, and missed out on Allen and Darnold. Now they have Jones as their future franchise QB.

Receivers have always taken time to develop as well. Even if he becomes a great one, it’s possible Brady will be gone by that time.