Buffalo Junction
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Keep in mind though, that if you open the doors for 2 year wonders the list grows exponentially with guys like Ryan Grant (back to back 1200 yard seasons), Brandon Jacobs (b2b 1000 yards), etc. there are simply a ton of players that fit that mold because of injuries.
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5 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:
yeah a lot of injuries, but apart from those 2 years he had nothing close. Median season is like.. 300 yards rushing.
Levens was a great receiving back when he was getting touches in those 2 years.
And if we're taking Peyton Hillis' season.. The difference between Hillis and Levens' best "one year wonder" and second best season aren't far apart. Levens just had that good of a year in 97.
I’m not arguing that. He spent the first part of his career backing up Bennett until the 96’ playoffs when Bennett got injured. Levens had 2 healthy seasons after that. Damn shame, but knee injuries in the 90’s were still a big deal.
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On 2/20/2019 at 7:40 AM, Bill from NYC said:
True, but he was an excellent player. I was lucky enough to see him play at RWS. He had very long arms and used them perfectly as leverage. Bryce was also a nasty player. I'm not so sure of how some of his hits would go over in todays NFL.
In one game many, many years ago I saw the Bills sack Harbaugh 6 times. Bryce and Hansen were hitting him so hard I was afraid they were going to kill him and he kept getting up. Say what you want wrt Harbaugh but he is one of the toughest guys I ever saw in any sport.
Others on this board were at that game.
Paup was a damn good player. Only time I saw him live was when we were back in Wisconsin (whole family is packers fans) for a funeral in 93’. No sacks, but Paup basically shut down the edge for most of the game. People forget he could destroy a run game too. The highlight was Reggie White though. He single handily snuffed Elway's comback in the 4th with back to back sacks.
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8 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:
Dorsey Levens had such a good year in 1997. 1,435 yards rushing, 370 receiving.. not to mention he was instrumental in taking the Packers over the hump for their SB win. And his other 1000 yard season was pedestrian at 1,034. Next best rushing year? 566.
I'll allow it since he was a monster in 1997 AND his play directly lead to the SB. But otherwise.. yeah not so great a list.
Allowable, but Levens’ downfall was an injured knee. Plus, in his “other 1000 yard season” he also had 70 receptions for 570 yards for a total of about 1600 yards.
As an aside, those Holmgren designed screens may be the best ever created. Heck, Andy Reid is still using them effectively.
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11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:
When he was Defensive Player of the Year, he had 17 1/2 if I recall John. The following year he had 9 1/2 unless my memory is shot, and I can't look it up right now. He tore his groin and I don't know if anyone ever came back from that.
I saw him play against us when he was on the Packers and was thrilled beyond belief when we signed him as a ufa. I think it was 3 years/7.6 million LOL! The man was just great!!!! Bruce Smith was happy when Paup was named DPOY and said he deserved it.
He tore his groin. The man was absolutely great. He was as strong as an ox and used his long arms as well as anybody. His sacks caused injury and pain. I don't think that he was very friendly lol.
Talk about fortunate circumstances... The guy went from playing with Reggie White to playing with Bruce. It’s not often that you see a 4x probowler spend most of his career being the second best pass rusher on his team.
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18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:
Dont get me wrong, I like Brown a lot. But for me, he was certainly a potential first round guy, but he was no lock for the first round IMO. To be fair I don't see any WR as a "lock" for the first round right now given how deep and closely graded the class is. With the combine coming up, there are at least 7 WRs who all have a chance to make first round cases, and then its going to be team by team preference.
Plus WR's are one of those groups where the draft order never goes as expected. Lots of times there are "first round" guys who see several other less talked about WRs go ahead of them as they fall to 2nd and 3rd round. Its going to happen this year too, and given Browns size, he was one I thought had that kind of slip potential given the crowded WR group.
I think the closest 2 guys to being a lock for the first round are Metcalf and Harry...yet even they both need to show strong at the combine for that to be true.
I think you’re on point. Metcalf is the most likely to me, as I think he’d be the first WR taken and likely a pick 10-15 guy without that neck injury. All things considered, this WR class reminds me of the 2008 class. Let’s hope they walk away with a Nelson or Jackson instead of a Hardy or Sweed.
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6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:
As would be the case with most teams if they lost their starting QB and some teams wouldnt be much better with their starter. The McKenzie firing was all Gruden.
Which is why “owner” or “Davis” are in most of my comments. The dysfunction trickles down from the top. Gruden is just the final straw. You don’t bring in a personality like Gruden and hand him that contract and implied power unless you’re unhappy with your GM, absolutely clueless, or insane.
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3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:
Glad you agree your comments were pretty ignorant.
I’m sure you’re about as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine... Fact remains, McKenzie had an UDFA backing up Carr in 16’ then a 4th round rookie and EJ Manual in 17’. I couldn’t tell you if that’s on McKenzie or Mr Bowl Cut. What I can surmise for other league wide occurrences is that the team falling apart after Carr’s injuries didn’t help McKenzies employment situation.
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2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:
Yes because all franchises have a backup plan at QB its not like it took us 18 years to find a legit prospect or anything like that. Most franchises have 2 to 3 franchise QBs on their rosters.?
You’re absolutely correct. Fans and owners fully understand that there’s a quarterback shortage. In fact they’re so understanding that their sympathy for GMs and coaches provides them with the faith and patience to endure decades of losing without becoming upset or frustrated with performance. I’m quite sure that I’ll never have the intellect or wisdom to comprehend the depth of faith and trust displayed by owners and their teams fans; especially Raider Nation. I swear those cats must have studied under the Dahli Lama for they are extraordinary examples of steadfast sensibility and are known worldwide for their reasonable natures.
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1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:
I'll disagree that the first year was run by Whaley's cronies. In fact, they got rid of a few before the draft even.
But it was McD's personal choice for WRs coach, forget his name, a former EC coach, that was high on Zay Jones when the obvious pick, even then, was Smith-Shuster, particularly over an FCS candidate like Jones. So not letting them off-the-hook for that one so easily.
One minor trend is their lack of concern over going "small school," again, FCS in this case, with two enormously risky picks on Jones & Allen, both times in very critical spots. Jones clearly hasn't stepped up to anywhere even remotely approaching what's expected from a 37th overall pick and 4th overall WR taken. Point-of-note, five WRs after Jones have logged more yards, significantly in four of the five cases.
And if you don't think that Peterman was McBeane's pick, well, LMAO.
Otherwise, I see as a trend McD leaning on his experience as a DC over emphasizing, or should we say neglecting, the offense. WR has been critical and yet Jones has flopped and the only others they've taken were late day-3 last year. Other than that the only offensive players have been the two Gs, Dawkins and then Teller, also on day-3 this past draft.
He really can't afford to tinker with more defense at this point, and given that they're going to sink or swim on Allen. So it's in their best interests as HC and GM and their futures as such, to use all three day-1 & 2 picks on offense, presumably a WR, an OL, and what, another OL, TE, another WR?
They literally have needs at every offensive position. We cannot argue that they're "set" anywhere. Foster isn't a proven starting WR although looking good for a handful of games. We'll see how things change when DCs plan for him. Otherwise we need capable WRs, a TE, every OL spot could stand an upgrade, and of course there's a need for RB too. That's a lot to overcome in a season, two tops. They won't have more to produce another playoff appearance. Again, not sure that "making the playoffs" last season was a good thing for them in their long-term interests.
They've been fortunate with several late-round picks but that's hardly a trade-off for a spotty history in rounds 1-3 and it suggests just that, fortune/luck as opposed to knowledge, otherwise they'd have done better in those 1-3 rounds.
There are so many needs and IMO not enough time for them to rebuild the O as such, particularly as key players (Hughes & Lorax) diminish in play on the D side due to age. Remember, over half our paltry sack total came from Kyle, Lorax, and Hughes. Also not mentioned is that their abject failure to be able to adequately assess the O. Anyone should have known that for one reason or another great things are typically not expected from a 30-year old RB no matter how good he's been. Sure, he could beat the odds, but that's a long-shot bet and frankly it didn't work out. The better thing to have done would have been to trade Shady last year as I said repeatedly and move on. Instead we get nothing, either this season from him or going forward. But the point is that to rely on things like that demonstrates a lack of awareness of tried and true NFL tenets if you will and frankly, of NFL history in general. That's one thing I always look for in a coach.
So far they haven't proven an ability to improve the offense. The one thing that should be clear to the world is that if Allen doesn't make a huge stride in his short-medium game then they won't be long for Buffalo. I don't see how they're going to do that with the current offensive (double entendre there) roster.
I'm just not sure that it's possible to build it as such, essentially from the ground up, so quickly. I guess we'll find out, but again, there's nothing on record suggesting that they know how to do it, here, Carolina, anywhere. More picks like their 2nd rounds of Jones and 3rd of Dawkins aren't going to cut it.
And if I were them I'd avoid any FCS school period on days 1 & 2, where they only have three picks, one each in the first three rounds.
The small school thing is likely a way to gain value on players that fit their physical and intellectual prototypes. If we’re honest we have to admit that a guy with Zay’s physical makeup doing what Zay did in the SEC is a top 10-15 pick. I think they’re willing to take shots on guys like this in the first 2-3 rounds and at the end of the draft. It’s a small sample size, but they also seem to go high floor in the middle rounds. That small school trend will likely continue. They seem to have faith in their ability to coach and develop these kids.
Also, keep in mind their idea of prototype may not fit our usual expectations. Corner is a good example of this. They could be targeting guys that have size, agility, and intelligence to play zone over size speed man guys. They might have a guy like Lonnie Johnson (UK) rated a lot higher than we think.
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14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
Carr had one above average season. He's still not a franchise caliber QB. The excuses don't obscure this reality. Players get injured. Players play injured...on every team.
If the Raiders had been consistently solid and performing well throughout the McKenzie era, you might have an argument that McKenzie was a good GM. But what is not lost in the history books is that he produced a single winning season out of 7.
Carr was a good pick. However, the injuries derailed his performance. The issue isn’t that Mckenzie whiffed, but rather he failed to have a backup plan at QB. Then he failed to address it in the ensuing draft. The difficulty in analysis comes from separating McKensie’s moves from Davis’ meddling. Mckenzie is likely at least a middle of the road GM.
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On 2/15/2019 at 2:15 AM, Doc Brown said:
I think people are overthinking this. My biggest takeaway from the last season is that Josh Allen looked vastly improved after returning from his injury. He looked more comfortable in the pocket. He made better decisions.
This is a key point that a fair amount of people neglect to mention on the national level, and it’s a critical component moving forward. Allen is not only coachable, but has the intelligence and work ethic for the coaching to be effective. Simply put, he’s going to be a better QB next year, particularly if he spends the off-season making his footwork instinctual and improving his touch.
Also, this “coachable” trait seems to be something McBeane drafts for... They’re looking for intelligent guys with drive and physical tools. I think moving forward we will see them continue this trend where they’ll take the “coachable” prototype in the first two rounds despite inconsistency in college performance or lack of elite competition.
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2 hours ago, WideNine said:
You may be right.
I like Hockenson a lot, but I think any other year he would probably be a 2nd round pick.
Because no one has really separated themselves from the pack as THE top-end receiver in this class folks are looking more at the deeper TE class and it's top-end prospects.
Kittle was taken in the 5th I believe, but his success now has more teams looking at that Iowa program, how they recruit and coach up their TEs.
These other factors I do think have caused his draft stock to rise... I don't think he will last through the first round, and neither will Irv Smith.
Not sure about Fant, but don't know if there was ever a year where 3 TE's went in the first...would have to do some digging.
I personally do not see the Bills brass taking him at 9, but there are no guarantees even at the top of the draft either.
I do think he should be just as much an option as the top receivers folks are batting around if they trade down in the 1st.
I think he will be the first TE off the board, and might be the first receiving option to get drafted. Him coming out definitely pushes Fant down. I do think that Beane may be more comfortable with Smith because of the info that Daboll may have provided. I actually wouldn't rule out a trade with say GB - our 1st and 2nd for both their 1sts and whatever makes up the difference... In that case I could see us taking Smith with that second 1st rounder.
2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:See I would agree with you in most years about Hockenson and agree in a much stronger draft maybe he goes 20-30. I keep hearing that he isn't a transcendent type and that may be true it might not be. I say this, this draft at the top stinks name me guys that you KNOW FOR SURE are going to be a star. Nick Bosa.....that might be just about it in this draft. There is no sure fire QB. There is no top 10 RB. No Top 20 WR. There now maybe 5 Edge or DT's that are worthy of the 9th overall pick(Williams, Bosa, Allen, Gary, Oliver), 1 LB(White) and No DB's worthy of the 9th pick. Greedy Williams is now being talked about as a mid to late first round pick. Thats why I brought him up, I think he's an interesting case. I think if he runs 4.55 or 4.6 he should be in consideration. If he runs 4.7-4.8 then your probably right he's a late 1 or two. His testing results will tell a lot about him. I dont expect him to run 4.4 to justify picking him tho.
This WR class reminds me of 2008 - the James Hardy draft. All the talent was late 1st - early 3rd. There were some serious gems (Nelson and Jackson), but a lot of the talent washed out. Butler actually reminds me of Hardy to a fair degree.
I absolutely agree that the weakness in top offensive talent will drive up the value for a few players. Namely Hockenson and Metcalf. Without that neck injury I think Metcalf would have been the defacto #1 WR in the class and a top 10 pick. I do think that Montez Sweat may climb after the combine. A team may take a flier on Simmons or an OT as well. It's going to be an interesting draft. If Hockenson runs a 4.55-4.6 I wouldn't be surprised to see him be the first offensive skill position player taken. Definitely a strange year.
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2 hours ago, billspro said:
For me positional value is QB, OL, DE, CB, TE, LB. If you have stars in those spots you are a championship contender.
I personally would take Gronk or Kittle in the top 10. I know you can find good TEs later in the draft but I think Hockenson can be a Gonzalez type of TE. He is rare in my opinion.
I see him as more of a Witten type, and not a Gronk. I think he'll be a reliable, top end, do it all TE. I watched 5-6 Iowa games this year, and while he stood out I didn't come away with the impression that he was an overwhelmingly dominant force. That said, I think he's the best blocking TE in the draft that can reliably catch the ball... Furthermore, I think he might actually have the best hands in the draft. I would absolutely take Gronk in the top 10.... You have to remember though.... When Gronk came out he had back issues, ran a 4.65, and had occasional games where his concentration was off. Without the back problems he would have gone around 15-20. That's what I'm saying about Hoch.... Amazing prospect, but he hasn't done anything to blow everyone away.
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6 hours ago, billspro said:
Are you sure? I think he will be the best TE in the NFL by year 3.
He may very well be one of the best TE's in the NFL by his third year. Those things are difficult to predict. However, he's still a TE.... which means that the positional draft value isn't there for a top 10 pick unless he puts up freak (Vernon Davis 4.38) numbers at the combine in the 40 or vertical jump. Teams would rather try and find a Gronk or George Kittle between the 2nd and 5th than spend a top 10 on a TE. It's a strange year though. Without any other sure thing playmakers or QBs in the draft his value might be bumped up and a team may pull the trigger early. Fact remains, I don't see anything about him that says he'll be a transcendent player though. Excellent, yes.... But the type of guy that completely redefines the position on his way to the Hall of Fame? No. I don't see that. Is he worth the #9 pick? Perhaps, but it's dependent upon the value of the defensive players left on the board.
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He’s not transcendent enough at that position to warrant a top 10 pick. He’s not Gonzalez or Vernon Davis. I could see him at 15 though. I doubt he could drop past NE. Heck, he might not get past GB if all the good edge guys are gone by then. At 9 though... Nah. There’s probably better value at edge, corner, OT, or DT unless the kids pulls a 4.4 40.
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17 hours ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:
I generally agree with that but really think Metcalf has the potential to be Julio. I don't see anyone else with a ceiling as high.
With that neck injury I’d be making Sterling Sharpe comparisons instead of Julio Jones.... The talent is there. Teams just have to be 100% sure about the injury risk, and accept that he might be forced out of the league early.
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It depends on how the player is polarizing. This team could probably absorb a Richard Sherman type that talks a lot, but works his tail off and sets an example with his “work ethic”. I’d say “hard no” on keeping guys with massive off field problems (Everson Griffen or Hunt) out of trouble though.
IIRC McDermott said every team can handle a couple big egos. I think a few guys like that are needed as confidence can be infectious. However, I don’t think Josh Allen has enough clout and presence to deal with a Primadonna receiver yet. In a way it comes down to established vet presence.... I guess I’d say our defense is likely capable of taking on a massive personality, but our offense isn’t.
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Daboll seems pretty comfortable substituting WRs like the rams do. I’m not sure if that stemmed from trying to find a reliable group, or if that’s going to be his MO moving forward. If it’s what he wants to do then some of these slot guys are in play, and I’d expect Beane to go for pure value and “process”. My money would be on guys who’ve proven to be reliable outlets for scrambling QBs and are under 30... Cobb (Rodgers), Humphries (Fitzmagic), etc. Along with guys that have all the physical tools to be a #1, stretch the field vertically, or play teams.
I’d assume Humphries, Cobb, Brown, Williams, and Patterson are in play. I’m tempted to throw Jared Cook into the equation as a TE option as well, though I think he stays in Oakland/LV or goes back to GB.
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3 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:
Golden Tate would cost more because he's actually productive. Humphries as I mentioned is also a way better option than Cobb. Foster and Zay really came on at the end of last year, I don't think we need to pay for an expensive WR coach or take our young players off the field in favor of a guy who hasn't been good for 4 seasons despite playing with arguably the best QB in the league.
IDK. I’d be pretty happy to add a receiver that provides 60 receptions, 600 yards, 4 tds, and the ability to return kicks (average of last 4 seasons)... All while not getting in trouble off the field, getting taunting penalties, or providing opponents with bulletin board material.
Beane has money to spend. There are definitely better options than Cobb. I’m just not sure there’s a better value. Time will tell.
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41 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:
I'm gonna disagree with this strongly. I believe he can play any of the interior positions but will develop into an outstanding C eventually.
As is your right... I think he’ll be able play any of the interior positions in a zone scheme and center in any scheme. Living in the ? pack home area for the past few years I’ve watched almost every game. Bradbury is amazing, but he doesn’t thrive when run blocking against talented 1 tecs and NTs with good hand technique. He doesn’t consistently drive them out of the hole like you’d want to see from a guard in a power scheme. He’s amazing at turning them, making reach blocks, combos, etc. Also keep in mind that Bradbury was surrounded by talented O-linemen... As a unit they blanked Clemson’s front seven. Only sack came from a CB blitz.
It’s possible that he adds weight and strength during the draft season, so his ability to drive 1techs may improve. He did come into NC State as a TE. I don’t see the point of playing him at guard though, especially with this roster. If Beane drafts Bradbury the kid will beat out Bodine by the end of camp unless he gets injured.
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2 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:
I think Cobb is washed and hasn't been effective for multiple seasons now.
He’s definitely not what he was and he gets nagging injuries every year. However, last year our receivers did an absolutely amazing job of being clueless when Allen broke contain and started playing yard ball. We need someone in that receivers room with experience playing that style of football... Cobb fits that profile. One could argue that Tate brings a similar skill set and experience level. Tate’s also likely to cost more. Pick your poison... This WR FA class is disappointing with regards to top end talent and value. A cheaper option that can help a younger group get up to speed might be a worthwhile investment.
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35 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:
I'd like a T, TE, G, 2 WR, DE, OLB. Specifically I want Risner at T, Bradbury at G and we can move him to C in a couple years.
Bradbury isn’t really physically suited to play guard, particularly in a power scheme. He’s a hell of an athlete, but he might weigh around 290-300 pounds. We’ll see at the combine. He’s the guy to grab if we want a year one starter at center though.
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41 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
I will share this tweet because I would like to see it and I think it has a decent chance of happening, since the Bills offered him a 3 year deal last year in FA. I do not think The Abolitionist will want to re-sign with the Ravens. The other team in the mix with the Ravens and Bills last year in FA for him was the Raiders, and they now have a different GM so they may or may not still be interested.
I like John Brown at a decent price. I think he’d work well to round out the WR corp with a draft pick.
Im also a fan of nabbing Randall Cobb of he hits the market. He might be the best available WR with regards to getting open in the QBs eyesight during a scramble. That could be an invaluable resource for J Allen.
T.J. Hockenson
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Grönk is such a freak that I find it hard to compare anyone to him. The guy just has a different mold like LT. I don’t think it’s fair to even try and compare someone to that. However, there are still plenty of guys below that level of freakishness that are in the HoF. The difficult part is predicting... especially with TEs.