Typical TBD Guy

Toledo Bill: Well clearly not ALL of the older fan base has become complacent. But I'm talking about many of those in here who keep reminding the younger crowd that compared to the earlier days, TD is the Messiah. OK, yes, I suppose I can't argue with that. But justifying TD's regime by saying it's better than "Terry Bledsoe awful" is still a poor reason to support TD in my opinion. By the way, you'll have to excuse me for only being a Bills fan since the Super Bowl days. Too bad my parents didn't have sex around the time yours did. Bill from NYC: Chris Villarial, while an excellent player, is still overpaid for his duties. He's a run blocking specialist at RG, and RG's like that normally shouldn't make the type of money he's making. That was my point, and it was even made by a couple of ESPN talking heads (Lenny P and someone else, if this somehow "validates" my position ) around the time CV was signed that the Bills overpaid at guard. Having said that, I still want CV - as well as Vincent and Mike Williams - on the team even though I wish their contracts were closer to market value for their position and/or age group. todd: In the AFC alone, I would immediately choose the GM's of the Pats, Jets, Steelers, and Colts (good old Polian!) over TD. Each makes the playoffs fairly consistently, and the 3 non-Patsies on my list routinely bring their A game against the upper tier competition of the NFL that's not based in NE. I might also add the GM's of the Jags and Ravens to that list, especially by the end of this upcoming season. The Chargers I'm reluctant to add because I would have easily said their organization was poorly run up until their 2004 miracle season... but anyway, how about you? Are you comfortable in naming for me 27 GM's around the league that have performed worse than TD? Sound n' Fury: OK, I'd be content with keeping Teague at C and forgetting my Rich Braham dreams. But as for Vincent and Miller, TD could easily fit both under a $5 million cap if he wanted - especially factoring in the savings from a Prioleau cut and a Henry trade. I don't expect Miller to command more than $3 million base salary, and TD could probably fit him in for less...maybe $2.25 million tops for the 2005 payroll. Max Fischer: Your lesson for me - don't criticize a pro football GM on an internet message board if you're not one yourself. Duly noted. I would have enjoyed offering my offseason backup plans to you in detail, but because these plans never received TD's prior stamp of approval, they're probably not worth your time reading. But in the meantime, I'll try to raise the quality of my posts up to the level of the 9 gems you've squeezed out since December 30. That would undoubtedly improve the quality of football debate here.

So glad you asked, Max! Here's what I 'd do. Given the current cap constraints - about 5 million under? - I would: A. Sign Keydrick Vincent of the Steelers as our starting LG. B. Sign Fred Miller of the Titans as our starting RT. C. Sign Rich Braham of the Bengals as our starting C. D. Move MW to LT, leave Villarial at RG, and keep Tucker, Gandy, McFarland, and Sobieski as our standard #6-#9 OL backups. E. Cut Teague and Prioleau. F. Trade Henry for some draft picks, probably during the day of the draft since that is when we'd find optimal trade value. G. Sign a backup RB if Henry gets shipped off to wherever. Anthony Thomas of the Bears would be ideal, but I'm not sure how expensive he'll end up being. That's pretty much all I'd do until June 1. By the early summer and mini-camp season, we'll have a better idea as to what our TE health status is, as well as how capable the Losman-Reed or Losman-Aiken connection may be. I like Edwards, Kelsay, and McGee as our starters on D, and I think LB and CB depth can be addressed strictly through the draft. And as for kicker, I'm going to get even more sh-- for this I know, but I'd stick with Lindell. The reason being that I'm not sure there are any better F.A. kickers out there who could do better in their first year dealing with the RWS winds. Of course, 1-2 UDFA kicker prospects in pre-season is expected, and maybe we'll strike gold and one of them can unseat Lindell. By the way, I do agree with the rest of you that Holcomb to replace Drew/Shane and Gandy to replace Price were both excellent pickups. However, more needs to be done...

I completely disagree with this statement. So you're saying that TD is the second-best GM in the NFL? Or that no other GM could have done a better job for the Bills in the past 4 years?

Here was my actual comment: "So isn't it possible that TD is not making the best decisions for our Bills, with respect to the other 31 GM's in the league that could have been doing a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson?" Here's a better wording of what I meant to say: "So isn't it possible that TD is not making the best decisions for our Bills, and that there might be other GM's in the league that could have done a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson?" And no, I don't think the Bills are worse off than in the year 2000. I actually prefer TD's method of spending restraint to the late Butler's. But TD can and does make mistakes, and he should be held equally accountable for them as he is when making some of his great moves like drafting McGahee and Clements and so forth... The latest complaint I have with the "TD Apologists" if I can call them that, is with regards to fixing the OL. A lot of them will point to any OL decision made and say, "Don't question McNally/TD. They are geniuses. They know what they are doing." No doubt, McNally and TD are great at what they do. Now way in hell am I calling for McNally's head in the next two years! But sometimes he and TD will make personnel evaluation mistakes. For example, replacing the starting LG last year with Tucker and Lawrence Smith. That was a mistake in evaluating Tucker and Smith. And people around this board should feel comfortable in saying something along the lines of "hey, I don't think Tucker and/or Smith is good enough. I think TD should go out and squeeze 'so and so' under the cap," without being tarred and feathered.

Plus I think his asking price is way too high. Some team is still out there ready to overpay for his "potential," and I think TD knows this. That's why he's probably off our radar screen. Right now I think Fred Miller from the Titans is a real possibility for us. He'd be a great bargain buy. Probably still has 3-4 good years left on him, but won't cost too much because of his age (32).

Well I shouldn't speak for every TD dissenter, but as for me - like I stated earlier - I'm giving TD a full 6 years (though quite reluctantly) to get us into the playoffs before calling for his head. The purpose of my post wasn't even a call for TD's firing; it was to counter all the pro-TD propaganda that I've read on this board. When anyone has a differing opinion about TD's job or when they question his decisions, they get pounced upon by all the board loyalists (you know who you are) and accused of being retarded. I would like a Bills message board where people aren't afraid to ask, "hey, do you think this is a good move on TD's part?" That's supposed to be the whole point of TSW. But right now, the common response to that type of question is, "who are you to question TD? That's his job, and you're just a moronic fan. So what do you know?"

Stojan, I understand where you're coming from. But remember last offseason, we all were saying that we needed Ruben Brown's replacement at LG. And it didn't happen from the front office. But then, we all agreed that this probably happened for a reason. Fast forward to the end of the 2004 season. At that point, we all agreed that LG should have been upgraded like many of us were originally insisting. My point is that TD and McNally are fallible, so that when some posters here question their motives, maybe there's some validity to these questions, no? That's all. The offseason is still young, however, and I fully expect more work to be done to the OL.

I can tell you probably work in the "research industry" (i.e., academia?) as you say, because of the obvious tone of arrogance in your response. Do you address all other lessers in your life in this manner, as well? To complain that my post wasn't backed well enough in research is ridiculous, given that this was written on a Friday night and on a football message board where people are generally allowed to give their honest opinions about their favorite team. Yes, it is true. I gave a complete list of TD's negatives without providing a complete list of his positives OR without providing the circumstances surrounding each of his negatives. But I did so intentionally. Why give a complete list of TD's positives? I had already stated that this wasn't even the purpose of my thread, since accolades thrown to TD can be found in virtually every other thread around here. And why should I give the circumstances surrounding each of TD's bad moves? You can do that for any bad GM; there's almost always a reason to be provided that can justify why any of those GM's did anything. But at some point the excuses need to stop, and you have to look at the cold hard results - otherwise there would never be a changing of the guard for any NFL GM position. Speaking of the cold hard results, here's the record of the Bills in the 21st century: 2000: 8-8 2001: 3-13 2002: 8-8 2003: 6-10 2004: 9-7 That, my friends, is as I said, "Bengals-esque." Oh right, I forgot the 9-7 record. Nevermind that we went 5-7 outside the pathetic NFC West... I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Only 5 other NFL teams have had a playoff drought as long or longer than we have. Since 1999, there have been plenty of teams who have recovered more quickly from salary cap jail and who have made the playoffs with a payroll much less than the cap limit. But go ahead. Keep bringing the excuses. In 2005, it will be that we had a rookie QB, and yes, technically you can't disagree with that, right? That's an understandable excuse, right? And in 2006, a bulk of our defensive stars will be eligible for free agency, and we probably won't have the money to resign or replace them... so our defense in 2006 will be bad. So there's the potential explanation for 2006! Well, enough of this "rant." I apologize for not writing a well-backed 10 page academic essay analyzing TD's reign as Bills GM. In the meantime, I promise to post less about my GM concerns and post more about how delicious this Teflon Tom Kool-Aid tastes. Nothing controversial from me anymore. No more arguments. I only want to make friends from now on. We just signed QB Kelly Holcomb? Outstanding! Never mind LT! Mike Gandy was once a third round draft pick?! Superb! Put him in at LG immediately!

I give TD 2 more seasons to make the playoffs (which is very generous). If he can't do it, I want him out of here unconditionally. Can we all agree on that? Or do we have to make more excuses as to why this franchise has become the Bengals of the 21st century? Many think the worst thing about TSW is the ignorance and impatience of the "new-age" posters. In my opinion, it's the !@#$ing complacency of the older fan base. Too bad the least complacent around here tend to get banned, because right about now this board could use some more frozen water and some more hard drinks...

You fail English? That's unpossible!

...I just have to get it off of my chest. Bear with me, please: 1. Hiring Gregg Williams. 2. 2002 draft, day 1. 3. Not outright releasing Drew Bledsoe after the 2003 season. 4. Not making the playoffs in 2003 or 2004. 5. Not respecting the kicker position in football. 6. Overpaying for guys at certain positions - Troy Vincent at FS, Teague at C, MW at RT, Villarial at RG, Prioleau and Wire at backup SS, etc... 7. Building a team with the stars focused at the LB and offensive "skill" positions rather than upfront on the OL and DL. 8. Already being at the salary cap limit for 2005, only 2 years following the period where we were unofficially out of "salary cap jail." To be fair, there is a lot of good that TD has brought to the Bills. I'm not going to bother with that whole list - since this is meant to be a TD-bashing thread - but most notably I'm happy with his past 2 drafts and with his outstanding job in marketing the Bills in such an economically depressed area. But back to the negatives, I guess I'm just not at all happy with the way this offseason is going - no, not because we didn't resign JJ and PW (I fully understand and agree with those decisions) - but because we don't have any money to address the OL like I thought it was going to finally be in 2005 after 10+ years of subpar Bills play at this position... As of now, this is (probably) our starting front 5: LT: Teague LG: Gandy C: Tucker RG: Villarial RT: Williams WTF??? The whole left side is atrocious, from Teague on over to Tucker. Certainly not adequate for a team wanting to play "smash-mouth" football and to block for a rookie QB. Unless there is somehow more free agent improvement along the front lines of our offense, you can look to a lot more league-leading zero-to-negative yard carries for Willis in 2005. I can already see the replies - if any - that may follow: 1. Kelso, you're an idiot. 2. Kelso, you think you're smarter than TD and McNally? 3. Kelso, why is your helmet so !@#$ing huge? 4. Kelso, have some patience. The offseason is still young. But before sending such replies, ask yourself this: If you're so sure that TD knows what's best for our team, then why haven't we made the playoffs since he got here? And why did other teams like the Eagles, Vikings, Chargers, and Jets make the playoffs in 2004 with a fraction of our payroll? So isn't it possible that TD is not making the best decisions for our Bills, with respect to the other 31 GM's in the league that could have been doing a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson? Just some thoughts from an idiot fan, -KH

Sounds like a great idea, BGIM, but unfortunately I think Arizona will want more than just a 3rd rounder. Plus, I'm not so sure anyone is willing to give up a day 1 pick for Henry. IMO, this Shelton-Henry deal is 100% dead. Of course, once upon a time I also thought the Bledsoe trade was 100% dead.

You misinterpreted my post. My point wasn't to say that Drew is necessarily better than JP or that JJ and PW should have been signed. My point was that those differing opinions have validity, and that you should respect those opinions as largely ones (with the exception of Rudy and a couple select others) that come from reasoned thought rather than blind negativity or panic. As for my particular opinions, yes I think we are better off in 2005 with JP than Drew. And no, I would not have overpaid for JJ (maybe for PW, though...his new contract isn't so ridiculous that TD could have not struck a compromise). And with respect to TD, yes I am disappointed with his 4 years of work to date. Not so much for the first 2 years but for the last 2. I'm not so sure we'll EVER make the playoffs with TD as our GM, especially while the Pats are still at the top of their game.

Adams played nose tackle briefly in his final year at Baltimore, but that was purely out of necessity and not because Adams is a good fit for NT. We'll be ok with Edwards starting in our traditional 4-3. What I like most about Edwards is that he is in his final contract year for 2005. And we all know how much harder players try when they are about to hit the market! Think 8-10 sacks and lots of backfield tackles!!

This is the where the circle-jerking should have ended for your post. Yes, JP CAN do worse than Drew. I'm not saying Drew was good - I was one of his biggest bashers last fall - but think Eli Manning in his first season... Is it possible to some of you that TD is fallible? I mean, Christ, a lot of people here just blindly support all of his moves. Among the TBD patrons, questioning Hollywood Don's decisions on a football message board is akin to heresy these days. ***Newsflash**** The Bills are one of only 6 NFL teams to have not made the playoffs this century. Other teams have historically recovered better from salary cap jail than the TD-led Bills. Let the debate continue... Peace.

And this explains why we've been so quiet on any discussions with the free agent O-linemen. TD is going to make a move with one of the good RT's on market - McDougle, Riley, or McKenzie - as soon as a team steps up and sets the RT supply/demand price for everyone else. Then, for LG, TD will nab one of the underrated guys - Vincent is my best guess - who isn't asking for as much money as the Wahles and Riveras of the market. As for C, I don't see a single one who would be any sort of upgrade over Tucker/Teague - other than Raiola, who I somehow think McNally and TD aren't very high on. MAYBE a trade is in the works with Henry and a C, but I doubt it. I think Tucker and/or Teague, when sandwiched between Villarial and a bigger and better LG, will be OK as the weak link of the line. And of course, Marcus Price should come relatively cheap.

Mike's natural position - based on college experience - is RT, but he was drafted in 2002 with the determination that he had the proper agility to play LT. Did this determination change over a 3-year period? I don't know, but as soon as a few days from now, we may have no choice but to make the switch.

Think about it: 1. JJ appears to be a goner. 2. LJ Shelton doesn't appear to be coming to Buffalo. 3. Teague and Price are not viable long-term solutions at LT 4. There are no cheaper LT alternatives to JJ in free agency 5. The current free agent market has plenty of good RT's that will be cheaper than JJ So why not make the switch, eh? Here's a potential lineup after making such a switch (note the strong run-blocking skills of all 5 starters...): LT: Mike Williams LG: Vincent from Steelers C: Tucker RG: Villarial RT: Kareem McKenzie from Jets backups: Teague Price Sobieski McFarland Your thoughts?

None of our DT's are every-down players.

Um, there's a difference between an NFL team's salary cap (currently $86 million for every team) and the revenue that it generates (no cap on this).

Typical Dan Snyder move. I don't expect that cap-strapped franchise to compete for another 5 years.

Your reliable source sucks balls, pal, if he said Henry will be cut.

Agreed. I think we go heavy on D for this draft. At the very least, I see a day 1 CB to possibly replace Clements and a mid-round OLB to replace Posey.

Yeah, but not even the Raiders would pay $9 million+ for a RT.

They're just begging for some team to bail them out of this Woodson/cap mess. And it won't be the Bills. Al Davis already used up his Ralph Wilson charity donation in the early 60's.